PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Where's the OOC(OUT OF CONFERENCE SCHEDULE)?

edit: wrong person. :smiley:

To me, that’s as offensive as it gets…ouch.

[quote="tundra, post:17, topic:2536"]I love cupcakes......... :).............they serve a good purpose. I would like more home OOC games scheduled when the students are on campus.

PREseason is to PREpare…(atleast this season.) i don’t know if it is possible to have a LESS experienced returning squad!!

Let’s have some fun this PREseason…win some games, win some fans…make the BJC a PARTY NIGHT…[/quote]

Nobody is going to want to watch us play sub-300 schools, especially when a few will probably hang tough with us in a season like this. At least if you bring in good squads you don’t have to feel ashamed of losing to them and you have the possibility of creating some buzz by knocking one off.

You gain nothing by playing cupcakes. No experience, no fans, no credibility. You have everything to lose, nothing to gain.

I’m not sure the average fan really knows the difference between a 150 RPI team and a 300 RPI team. The all seem like cupcakes to a casual fan. That said, we should never schedule based on thinking we’ll miss the dance. We should always schedule assuming we’ll be at worst a bubble team. That way if some things fall into place (maybe one of our freshmen is the second coming), we aren’t left out because of the OOC schedule. Just my way of thinking. I’m sure some will disagree.

I agree completely MJG. Cupcakes are a waste of time. You learn something from getting your butt kicked against better competition. You don’t gain anything from beating up on a very bad team. You want confidence boosters? Scrimmage the women’s team.

I don’t think it’s about confidence. I think it has more to do with learning to play within the new system, new for the whole team; the coaches and players.

Offensive sets, collegiate spacing, different defenses, etc. Like I said, this year’s starting unit have a grand total of 2 years starting experience, and about outside of Timmy Frazier, about 1000 minutes of playing time, or about what ONE of the starters last year had seen.

Does that mean the big10 is going to take it easy on them?

You learn to play in a system in practice, games are where you demonstrate what you’ve learned. They need as much exposure to REAL college hoops as they can get. It doesn’t matter if you can run your stuff against teams you’re just physically outclassing, it’s worthless and imo it tends to create bad habits. You get about 30 real games per season and you need to make each and everyone count.

Not to go all kidcoyote with an anecdote here, but I remember growing up playing youth basketball - our 5th and 6th grade teams would travel to summer tournaments and do pretty well. Meanwhile, a school the next county over was entering their 5th and 6th grade team into 7th and 8th grade tournaments. They were getting smacked around quite a bit early in the summer, but by the last tournament they were advancing a little bit and showing progress. They were learning how to play against better competition.

I don’t think I have to tell you which school wound up with a better basketball program by the time we all reached high school.

(Same thing happened in high school even. We stuck together as a team and played summer leagues and pretty much dominated whatever teams our competition could throw together. I think we maybe lost 2 games in my 4 years playing those summers. The teams that wound up being better than us in the regular season didn’t send their kids to these summer leagues - they had most of their best players going to play AAU against much tougher competition. )

It sure was fun playing some of those summer league games and being able to dominate entire league seasons, but it never seemed to translate for us in the regular season the same way. I don’t believe this was a coincidence.

You play against the best competition you can find and you will improve and learn from it. If you play against cupcakes you are likely going to win but improvement is a huge question mark. This is critical in a rebuilding year, you have nothing to lose.

[quote=“Craftsy21, post:26, topic:2536”]Does that mean the big10 is going to take it easy on them?

You learn to play in a system in practice, games are where you demonstrate what you’ve learned. They need as much exposure to REAL college hoops as they can get. It doesn’t matter if you can run your stuff against teams you’re just physically outclassing, it’s worthless and imo it tends to create bad habits. You get about 30 real games per season and you need to make each and everyone count.

Not to go all kidcoyote with an anecdote here, but I remember growing up playing youth basketball - our 5th and 6th grade teams would travel to summer tournaments and do pretty well. Meanwhile, a school the next county over was entering their 5th and 6th grade team into 7th and 8th grade tournaments. They were getting smacked around quite a bit early in the summer, but by the last tournament they were advancing a little bit and showing progress. They were learning how to play against better competition.

I don’t think I have to tell you which school wound up with a better basketball program by the time we all reached high school.

(Same thing happened in high school even. We stuck together as a team and played summer leagues and pretty much dominated whatever teams our competition could throw together. I think we maybe lost 2 games in my 4 years playing those summers. The teams that wound up being better than us in the regular season didn’t send their kids to these summer leagues - they had most of their best players going to play AAU against much tougher competition. )

It sure was fun playing some of those summer league games and being able to dominate entire league seasons, but it never seemed to translate for us in the regular season the same way. I don’t believe this was a coincidence.

You play against the best competition you can find and you will improve and learn from it. If you play against cupcakes you are likely going to win but improvement is a huge question mark. This is critical in a rebuilding year, you have nothing to lose. [/quote]

Craftsy, I mostly agree with you, but I do think there is something to lose. If the team ends up going 8-22 or something like that, it will look terrible. The team may actually be improved and competing well by the end of the season, but people will be talking about “Was Chambers the wrong hire? Should he be fired after just 1 season? Will PSU ever have a good basketball team”, etc… Recruiting will be very difficult.

I’d like to see a nice mix of scrubs, solid teams, and a couple top programs.

Does that mean the big10 is going to take it easy on them?

You learn to play in a system in practice, games are where you demonstrate what you’ve learned. They need as much exposure to REAL college hoops as they can get. It doesn’t matter if you can run your stuff against teams you’re just physically outclassing, it’s worthless and imo it tends to create bad habits. You get about 30 real games per season and you need to make each and everyone count.

Not to go all kidcoyote with an anecdote here, but I remember growing up playing youth basketball - our 5th and 6th grade teams would travel to summer tournaments and do pretty well. Meanwhile, a school the next county over was entering their 5th and 6th grade team into 7th and 8th grade tournaments. They were getting smacked around quite a bit early in the summer, but by the last tournament they were advancing a little bit and showing progress. They were learning how to play against better competition.

I don’t think I have to tell you which school wound up with a better basketball program by the time we all reached high school.

(Same thing happened in high school even. We stuck together as a team and played summer leagues and pretty much dominated whatever teams our competition could throw together. I think we maybe lost 2 games in my 4 years playing those summers. The teams that wound up being better than us in the regular season didn’t send their kids to these summer leagues - they had most of their best players going to play AAU against much tougher competition. )

It sure was fun playing some of those summer league games and being able to dominate entire league seasons, but it never seemed to translate for us in the regular season the same way. I don’t believe this was a coincidence.

You play against the best competition you can find and you will improve and learn from it. If you play against cupcakes you are likely going to win but improvement is a huge question mark. This is critical in a rebuilding year, you have nothing to lose.

Craftsy, I mostly agree with you, but I do think there is something to lose. If the team ends up going 8-22 or something like that, it will look terrible. The team may actually be improved and competing well by the end of the season, but people will be talking about “Was Chambers the wrong hire? Should he be fired after just 1 season? Will PSU ever have a good basketball team”, etc… Recruiting will be very difficult.

I’d like to see a nice mix of scrubs, solid teams, and a couple top programs.

The point that many seem to be missing is that we ought to be able to defeat teams in the third quartile of the RPI rankings even with our depleted roster. Schedule those guys and you’ll put together a record that’s very likely to be within a win, or at most two, of a schedule that’s loaded with bottom quartile teams but you likely haven’t scheduled yourself out of post season play. You don’t sacrifice wins (other than an occasional fluke like Maine) when you book those type teams but you do give up your chances to play in the post season, even with a decent conference record, when you book fourth quartile programs

I don’t know why the arguing since most of the schedule is known.

We supposedly have @ St. Joe’s, @ Duquesne, Ole Miss, @ Boston College, vs. Kentucky, vs. USF/ODU, Long Island, Radford.

Throw in 5 guaranteed games and that’s a pretty good schedule considering the circumstances. As long as we’re not playing 5 NJITs, everything will be fine, even if we play 2-3 of them. I think it’ll be a perfect schedule, in conjunction with the B1G draw we got.

[quote=“eric17, post:29, topic:2536”]I don’t know why the arguing since most of the schedule is known.

We supposedly have @ St. Joe’s, @ Duquesne, Ole Miss, @ Boston College, vs. Kentucky, vs. USF/ODU, Long Island, Radford.

Throw in 5 guaranteed games and that’s a pretty good schedule considering the circumstances. As long as we’re not playing 5 NJITs, everything will be fine, even if we play 2-3 of them. I think it’ll be a perfect schedule, in conjunction with the B1G draw we got.[/quote]

There’s just no reason to schedule even 2-3 NJITs. Schedule any five from this list:

171 UW Green Bay 13-18 0.4944 127 0.5170
172 Western Carolina 17-15 0.4938 244 0.4640
173 Pennsylvania 13-15 0.4937 164 0.4969
174 Western Michigan 19-12 0.4931 281 0.4529
175 Saint Louis 11-19 0.4929 61 0.5486
176 Sam Houston 14-13 0.4928 206 0.4793
177 Arkansas St 15-15 0.4925 202 0.4814
178 Northeastern 11-20 0.4923 81 0.5406
179 Loyola (Maryland) 15-15 0.4922 184 0.4873
180 IPFW 17-12 0.4922 285 0.4521
181 Canisius 15-15 0.4914 188 0.4859
182 Davidson 16-14 0.4897 236 0.4661
183 South Dakota St 17-12 0.4892 276 0.4541
184 Liberty 16-13 0.4890 246 0.4630
185 Iowa 11-20 0.4884 57 0.5496
186 Columbia 14-13 0.4884 223 0.4745
187 Rice 12-18 0.4881 100 0.5270
188 UA Little Rock 17-16 0.4877 212 0.4778
189 Tennessee Tech 17-12 0.4874 277 0.4537
190 Pacific 14-15 0.4873 205 0.4794
191 Texas Southern 19-12 0.4863 331 0.4188
192 Indiana 12-20 0.4856 52 0.5523
193 Nevada 12-19 0.4850 111 0.5232
194 UT San Antonio 16-13 0.4849 298 0.4492
195 Appalachian St 14-15 0.4847 219 0.4759
196 Western Kentucky 16-16 0.4834 211 0.4779
197 Loyola (Chicago) 16-15 0.4830 210 0.4784
198 Bethune Cookman 17-12 0.4822 320 0.4355
199 Chattanooga 14-16 0.4811 198 0.4821
200 VMI 14-13 0.4783 264 0.4569
201 Cal Poly 15-14 0.4780 295 0.4500
202 Siena 13-18 0.4779 151 0.5025
203 Fresno St 13-17 0.4760 163 0.4976
204 Presbyterian 13-18 0.4760 203 0.4810
205 Lehigh 16-15 0.4758 273 0.4547
206 SMU 14-14 0.4743 191 0.4849
207 Southern Illinois 13-19 0.4742 139 0.5084
208 TCU 11-22 0.4730 89 0.5364
209 Morgan St 17-14 0.4727 317 0.4387
210 Cornell 10-18 0.4711 136 0.5098
211 Middle Tenn St 15-16 0.4700 245 0.4638
212 UMKC 15-14 0.4697 280 0.4530
213 St. Francis (NY) 15-15 0.4688 279 0.4531
214 UL Lafayette 13-14 0.4687 255 0.4598
215 Maine 14-15 0.4685 265 0.4568
216 Albany 16-16 0.4676 284 0.4525
217 Drake 13-18 0.4672 166 0.4963
218 UNC Wilmington 13-18 0.4669 174 0.4928
219 Oregon St 11-20 0.4668 115 0.5216
220 Lafayette 12-19 0.4667 187 0.4860
221 Mercer 14-18 0.4665 194 0.4831
222 Winthrop 11-17 0.4659 183 0.4874
223 Georgia St 12-19 0.4659 158 0.4990
224 Texas St 14-15 0.4658 262 0.4586
225 Charlotte 10-20 0.4655 121 0.5196
226 SE Louisiana 12-14 0.4647 307 0.4470
227 LSU 11-21 0.4646 113 0.5221
228 William & Mary 9-22 0.4643 97 0.5291
229 Stephen F. Austin 14-11 0.4621 327 0.4265
230 Mt St. Mary’s 11-21 0.4613 162 0.4979
231 North Carolina A&T 12-17 0.4607 252 0.4609
232 Tennessee St 12-16 0.4594 251 0.4616
233 Bradley 11-20 0.4591 144 0.5057
234 DePaul 7-24 0.4590 45 0.5561
235 Charleston Southern 12-16 0.4581 249 0.4620
236 Tulane 10-17 0.4570 177 0.4917
237 Northwestern St 16-13 0.4566 336 0.4150
238 North Dakota St 12-15 0.4563 258 0.4589
239 Houston 10-18 0.4562 156 0.5009
240 Stony Brook 14-17 0.4557 290 0.4511
241 Nicholls St 10-14 0.4557 263 0.4586
242 Brown 10-17 0.4545 199 0.4821
243 Pepperdine 11-21 0.4539 172 0.4933
244 Denver 13-17 0.4528 227 0.4732
245 Bowling Green 13-19 0.4515 232 0.4691
246 Coppin St 13-14 0.4507 326 0.4300
247 Louisiana Tech 11-20 0.4496 193 0.4831
248 CS Northridge 12-18 0.4495 267 0.4565
249 Jackson St 15-15 0.4479 338 0.4106
250 Miss Valley St 13-19 0.4475 314 0.4427
251 Utah Valley 15-11 0.4468 343 0.3940
252 Fordham 7-21 0.4452 96 0.5295
253 Bryant 8-21 0.4442 160 0.4984
254 Auburn 10-20 0.4436 147 0.5047
255 Illinois St 12-19 0.4433 197 0.4824

And nobody from this list:

256 Savannah St 8-18 0.4432 247 0.4622
257 Alabama St 15-17 0.4429 332 0.4187
258 Montana St 11-18 0.4425 256 0.4596
259 St. Francis (PA) 9-21 0.4421 179 0.4905
260 Wake Forest 8-24 0.4419 99 0.5270
261 High Point 10-19 0.4419 226 0.4735
262 Eastern Kentucky 13-16 0.4417 324 0.4308
263 Gardner Webb 9-21 0.4416 220 0.4751
264 Wyoming 8-21 0.4415 112 0.5225
265 UC Riverside 10-19 0.4411 237 0.4660
266 Troy 7-21 0.4399 152 0.5018
267 Southern Utah 10-18 0.4391 234 0.4678
268 Loyola Marymount 9-21 0.4388 178 0.4917
269 Elon 11-17 0.4383 296 0.4496
270 Norfolk St 12-20 0.4375 286 0.4521
271 North Dakota 15-14 0.4366 342 0.3981
272 UT Arlington 9-16 0.4361 304 0.4475
273 Sacred Heart 11-18 0.4335 313 0.4432
274 New Hampshire 11-18 0.4329 312 0.4434
275 Portland St 13-16 0.4326 322 0.4339
276 South Alabama 10-16 0.4325 299 0.4489
277 Hartford 11-20 0.4325 248 0.4622
278 NCCU 11-15 0.4325 333 0.4183
279 Army 10-19 0.4317 308 0.4459
280 Campbell 11-19 0.4310 278 0.4532
281 Texas A&M CC 7-21 0.4303 176 0.4918
282 Florida Gulf Coast 10-20 0.4298 250 0.4620
283 Florida Intl 9-19 0.4282 228 0.4715
284 Samford 10-19 0.4273 292 0.4501
285 Holy Cross 8-21 0.4271 225 0.4735
286 Monmouth 9-21 0.4267 213 0.4774
287 Towson 4-26 0.4265 109 0.5236
288 Niagara 9-23 0.4261 207 0.4788
289 Eastern Washington 8-20 0.4260 217 0.4760
290 Seattle 11-20 0.4259 311 0.4438
291 UT Martin 10-21 0.4257 275 0.4542
292 UIC 6-24 0.4252 149 0.5032
293 Manhattan 6-25 0.4250 154 0.5013
294 The Citadel 8-22 0.4248 218 0.4759
295 Youngstown St 7-21 0.4245 148 0.5035
296 UC Irvine 12-19 0.4239 319 0.4368
297 Lamar 9-17 0.4239 318 0.4380
298 UNC Greensboro 7-24 0.4233 182 0.4901
299 Navy 10-20 0.4218 302 0.4481
300 Binghamton 8-23 0.4208 231 0.4696
301 UC Davis 8-20 0.4196 238 0.4657
302 Idaho St 7-20 0.4193 216 0.4765
303 CS Fullerton 10-20 0.4171 316 0.4400
304 Stetson 8-22 0.4169 235 0.4676
305 Marist 6-27 0.4159 157 0.5008
306 SE Missouri St 9-22 0.4151 294 0.4501
307 Central Michigan 9-21 0.4131 300 0.4488
308 Alabama A&M 10-15 0.4119 339 0.4085
309 Delaware St 7-21 0.4095 297 0.4495
310 CS Bakersfield 9-19 0.4090 289 0.4512
311 Dartmouth 5-23 0.4078 200 0.4820
312 SC Upstate 5-25 0.4071 185 0.4865
313 Colgate 7-23 0.4062 272 0.4547
314 Eastern Illinois 7-20 0.4059 301 0.4485
315 NJIT 11-15 0.4055 344 0.3935
316 Grambling St 12-21 0.4051 340 0.4051
317 South Dakota 14-15 0.4050 345 0.3719
318 Northern Illinois 8-21 0.4040 306 0.4470
319 Longwood 8-19 0.4017 315 0.4403
320 San Diego 4-24 0.4013 159 0.4986
321 Kennesaw St 7-23 0.4004 253 0.4606
322 UMBC 5-25 0.3972 221 0.4749
323 UM Eastern Shore 7-22 0.3926 309 0.4452
324 Eastern Michigan 6-22 0.3878 271 0.4549
325 UL Monroe 5-24 0.3871 270 0.4553
326 UA Pine Bluff 7-24 0.3867 321 0.4344
327 Fairleigh Dickinson 5-24 0.3865 254 0.4601
328 SIU-E 4-21 0.3846 239 0.4648
329 Florida A&M 8-20 0.3846 330 0.4213
330 Sacramento St 5-21 0.3818 288 0.4514
331 Jacksonville St 4-25 0.3760 305 0.4471
332 Howard 6-24 0.3733 287 0.4515
333 Radford 2-24 0.3715 214 0.4772
334 Prairie View A&M 7-22 0.3715 337 0.4142
335 South Carolina St 6-22 0.3689 329 0.4252
336 Western Illinois 4-23 0.3689 310 0.4438
337 Alcorn St 4-24 0.3663 323 0.4329
338 Toledo 3-28 0.3642 241 0.4644
339 Chicago St 4-25 0.3604 325 0.4301
340 Central Arkansas 2-24 0.3584 269 0.4553
341 Georgia So 2-27 0.3522 274 0.4546
342 Centenary 1-27 0.3478 268 0.4553
343 UT Pan American 3-25 0.3409 328 0.4255
344 Southern U 3-24 0.3391 334 0.4175
345 Houston Baptist 5-24 0.3349 341 0.4004

[quote=“UncleLar, post:30, topic:2536”]And nobody from this list:
260 Wake Forest 8-24 0.4419 99 0.5270[/quote]

You might be safe there, though.

[quote=“eric17, post:29, topic:2536”]I don’t know why the arguing since most of the schedule is known.

We supposedly have @ St. Joe’s, @ Duquesne, Ole Miss, @ Boston College, vs. Kentucky, vs. USF/ODU, Long Island, Radford.

Throw in 5 guaranteed games and that’s a pretty good schedule considering the circumstances. As long as we’re not playing 5 NJITs, everything will be fine, even if we play 2-3 of them. I think it’ll be a perfect schedule, in conjunction with the B1G draw we got.[/quote]

It was reported in another thread that the season opener is at home against Hartford.

[quote="eric17, post:29, topic:2536"]I don't know why the arguing since most of the schedule is known.

We supposedly have @ St. Joe’s, @ Duquesne, Ole Miss, @ Boston College, vs. Kentucky, vs. USF/ODU, Long Island, Radford.

Throw in 5 guaranteed games and that’s a pretty good schedule considering the circumstances. As long as we’re not playing 5 NJITs, everything will be fine, even if we play 2-3 of them. I think it’ll be a perfect schedule, in conjunction with the B1G draw we got.[/quote]

There’s just no reason to schedule even 2-3 NJITs. Schedule any five from this list:

And nobody from this list:

277 Hartford 11-20 0.4325 248 0.4622
333 Radford 2-24 0.3715 214 0.4772


Since the opportunity to play Kentucky in a tournament got us these two cupcakes I sure hope there aren’t any more of them on the schedule. I think that Northeastern, Loyola MD, Canisius, Columbia, Siena and Lehigh are “gettable” games as far as RPI strength and travel distance. This year we should have had teams fighting to play us. We are an NCAA team that was losing 4 starters. Then we lost our coach. It’s a no-lose situation to play us. You get paid. If you win you knocked off a tourney team. If you lose, well hey, they went to the tourney last year.

[quote=“Craftsy21, post:26, topic:2536”]Not to go all kidcoyote with an anecdote here, but I remember growing up playing youth basketball - our 5th and 6th grade teams would travel to summer tournaments and do pretty well. Meanwhile, a school the next county over was entering their 5th and 6th grade team into 7th and 8th grade tournaments. They were getting smacked around quite a bit early in the summer, but by the last tournament they were advancing a little bit and showing progress. They were learning how to play against better competition.

I don’t think I have to tell you which school wound up with a better basketball program by the time we all reached high school.

[/quote]

They probably had their “ATTITUDE” bracelets on.

[quote="eric17, post:29, topic:2536"]I don't know why the arguing since most of the schedule is known.

We supposedly have @ St. Joe’s, @ Duquesne, Ole Miss, @ Boston College, vs. Kentucky, vs. USF/ODU, Long Island, Radford.

Throw in 5 guaranteed games and that’s a pretty good schedule considering the circumstances. As long as we’re not playing 5 NJITs, everything will be fine, even if we play 2-3 of them. I think it’ll be a perfect schedule, in conjunction with the B1G draw we got.[/quote]

There’s just no reason to schedule even 2-3 NJITs. Schedule any five from this list:

171 - 255

And nobody from this list:

256 -345

It’s a little more complicated than that. I would guess at minimum 25 teams changes spots between those two categories.

[quote="eric17, post:29, topic:2536"]I don't know why the arguing since most of the schedule is known.

We supposedly have @ St. Joe’s, @ Duquesne, Ole Miss, @ Boston College, vs. Kentucky, vs. USF/ODU, Long Island, Radford.

Throw in 5 guaranteed games and that’s a pretty good schedule considering the circumstances. As long as we’re not playing 5 NJITs, everything will be fine, even if we play 2-3 of them. I think it’ll be a perfect schedule, in conjunction with the B1G draw we got.[/quote]

There’s just no reason to schedule even 2-3 NJITs. Schedule any five from this list:

171 - 255

And nobody from this list:

256 -345

It’s a little more complicated than that. I would guess at minimum 25 teams changes spots between those two categories.

Of course it is, but we are talking rules of thumb here.

Radford destructed last year big time. I think they danced the year before and had pretty good talent for several years. Amir Johnson (Pgh kid) started there for 4 years. I think they had a NBA draftee (euro kid) 2 years ago…

Spelling :wink:

edit: that was not the word i thought you were going for there. :-\

[quote=“tundra, post:37, topic:2536”]Radford destructed last year big time. I think they danced the year before and had pretty good talent for several years. Amir Johnson (Pgh kid) started there for 4 years. I think they had a NBA draftee (euro kid) 2 years ago…

Spelling :wink: [/quote]

Radford was 19-12 the season before, and they did not play in any post season tournament besides the Big South Tournament. They also lost two key contributors from that team, one being their best player.

Is a 5 win season predictable based off that? Probably not, but I certainly wouldn’t have banked on them being a better than 250RPI team.

[quote="tundra, post:37, topic:2536"]Radford destructed last year big time. I think they danced the year before and had pretty good talent for several years. Amir Johnson (Pgh kid) started there for 4 years. I think they had a NBA draftee (euro kid) 2 years ago...........

Spelling ;)[/quote]

Radford was 19-12 the season before, and they did not play in any post season tournament besides the Big South Tournament. They also lost two key contributors from that team, one being their best player.

Is a 5 win season predictable based off that? Probably not, but I certainly wouldn’t have banked on them being a better than 250RPI team.

Ok…how about the year before last…???