What does "ed want to run mean?"


#1

I am not sure what this means? Does it mean all he wants to do is fast break? Well wouldn’t we all like that. I watch us and it is the same thing every time. We toss is around the three point line and then someone chucks it up. I do not understand why we do not pass down low even if we are only going to pass it right back outside.

So I guess in short my question is, what is Ed’s vision? Are we getting close to that?


#2

It seems as though ED has probably adjusted what his ideal style of play at penn state is since the days when he first got here… only thing is, I’m not sure he’s ever made it clear to the fans (or players?) just what his overall, general strategy for the team is at this point. Maybe he doesn’t know, since he can’t necessarily pick and choose the kids he gets at this point, and he has to mold the game around the players rather than the other way around… But it does seem we lack focus in direction as a team sometimes, and I think it has something to do with not knowing who we truly are - as a program, top to bottom.


#3

It means that Ed realizes he’s packed on a few pounds over Thanksgiving Break, and wants to start an exercise regimen to shed the extra weight.


#4

[quote=“chicago lion, post:1, topic:447”]I am not sure what this means? Does it mean all he wants to do is fast break? Well wouldn’t we all like that. I watch us and it is the same thing every time. We toss is around the three point line and then someone chucks it up. I do not understand why we do not pass down low even if we are only going to pass it right back outside.

So I guess in short my question is, what is Ed’s vision? Are we getting close to that?[/quote]

Ditto. I am confused. Is the strategy to either fast break or chuck up 3’s? No wonder we can’t beat Wisconsin. They get back on D, and D up the arc. They’re comfortable in the halfcourt, we’re not. They have an inside/outside halfcourt game. We don’t, so they win in the halfcourt and stop the break, taking away any edge we might have. And they’re not loaded with talent. They had no Big 10 first team players last year. Did they even have a second team player?

With nobody playing with their back to the basket, or rarely, no opportunity to pass it down low. Goes back to that post article, where Kevin McHale says guys don’t like to do it, not comfortable in traffic and would rather be at the arc, where they have more time and space, can set their feet and shoot. When they don’t have time and space and receive the ball, they pass it. I have no idea what Ed’s vision is. When I watch Northwestern, it’s a much more interesting style of play. Like Wisky, they get more out of less.


#5

I think Ed’s version of running would be fast break off a steal. But I think his set offense would be crisp perimeter passes, push the ball inside, kick it out and have one of the guards penetrate and then either shoot or dish off to the open man whether it be a big or a wing. I could be wrong but that is what I think of when I hear him say he wants to play “up tempo”.


#6

[quote=“chicago lion, post:1, topic:447”]I am not sure what this means? Does it mean all he wants to do is fast break? Well wouldn’t we all like that. I watch us and it is the same thing every time. We toss is around the three point line and then someone chucks it up. I do not understand why we do not pass down low even if we are only going to pass it right back outside.

So I guess in short my question is, what is Ed’s vision? Are we getting close to that?[/quote]

I imagine when he comes up with an answer, he will text you the synopsis. ::slight_smile:


#7
[quote="chicago lion, post:1, topic:447"]I am not sure what this means? Does it mean all he wants to do is fast break? Well wouldn't we all like that. I watch us and it is the same thing every time. We toss is around the three point line and then someone chucks it up. I do not understand why we do not pass down low even if we are only going to pass it right back outside.

So I guess in short my question is, what is Ed’s vision? Are we getting close to that?[/quote]

I imagine when he comes up with an answer, he will text you the synopsis. ::slight_smile:

I wasn’t asking for him to tell me, I just wanted those of you who know more about basketball than me if you could explain what he means. I think actually I got some good answers.


#8
[quote="chicago lion, post:1, topic:447"]I am not sure what this means? Does it mean all he wants to do is fast break? Well wouldn't we all like that. I watch us and it is the same thing every time. We toss is around the three point line and then someone chucks it up. I do not understand why we do not pass down low even if we are only going to pass it right back outside.

So I guess in short my question is, what is Ed’s vision? Are we getting close to that?[/quote]

I imagine when he comes up with an answer, he will text you the synopsis. ::slight_smile:

I wasn’t asking for him to tell me, I just wanted those of you who know more about basketball than me if you could explain what he means. I think actually I got some good answers.

Ok. Sorry if I was snippy. Just getting tired of too many people trying to coach from the sidelines.

Wondering why people can not just sit back and enjoy the games.

I am sure Ed has his vision. Just because he doesnt include people from an internet message board in one his vision, doesnt mean it doesnt exist.


#9
[quote="chicago lion, post:1, topic:447"]I am not sure what this means? Does it mean all he wants to do is fast break? Well wouldn't we all like that. I watch us and it is the same thing every time. We toss is around the three point line and then someone chucks it up. I do not understand why we do not pass down low even if we are only going to pass it right back outside.

So I guess in short my question is, what is Ed’s vision? Are we getting close to that?[/quote]

I imagine when he comes up with an answer, he will text you the synopsis. ::slight_smile:

It wasn’t that crazy a question. Don’t know if you listened to the Davidson game on the radio over the internet, but the Davidson announcer said, “it’s good that PSU is athletic, cause their offense is a mess.” Some of us agree and/or are confused. We struggle way, way too much vs. lousy teams. Only that they run out of gas in the second half, like tonight, that PSU wins. Like the Davidson announcer said, PSU is athletic, and lucky they are. But Big 10 teams aren’t lousy, and won’t run out of gas like these teams.


#10
[quote="chicago lion, post:1, topic:447"]I am not sure what this means? Does it mean all he wants to do is fast break? Well wouldn't we all like that. I watch us and it is the same thing every time. We toss is around the three point line and then someone chucks it up. I do not understand why we do not pass down low even if we are only going to pass it right back outside.

So I guess in short my question is, what is Ed’s vision? Are we getting close to that?[/quote]

I imagine when he comes up with an answer, he will text you the synopsis. ::slight_smile:

It wasn’t that crazy a question. Don’t know if you listened to the Davidson game on the radio over the internet, but the Davidson announcer said, “it’s good that PSU is athletic, cause their offense is a mess.” Some of us agree and/or are confused. We struggle way, way too much vs. lousy teams. Only that they run out of gas in the second half, like tonight, that PSU wins. Like the Davidson announcer said, PSU is athletic, and lucky they are. But Big 10 teams aren’t lousy, and won’t run out of gas like these teams.

They arent lucky. They are talented, because Ed recruited quality players. Some nights teams dont play their best game and they rely on their talent to win. There is no shame or harm in that. In fact, I can remember back when nights like that didnt exist for basketball around here.

Honestly, some people behave like parents at high school football games griping because the coaches didnt run the ball enough. Then when they do decide to run the ball, they gripe because they didnt throw the ball enough. :-[

Ed is the head coach. He won 27 games last year. He recruited these players. I choose to trust his judgment. Perhaps some of you should do the same. It might make for a more enjoyable game. :slight_smile:


#11

[quote=“Captain Cranky, post:8, topic:447”]Ok. Sorry if I was snippy. Just getting tired of too many people trying to coach from the sidelines.

Wondering why people can not just sit back and enjoy the games.

I am sure Ed has his vision. Just because he doesnt include people from an internet message board in one his vision, doesnt mean it doesnt exist.[/quote]

Well I’m glad you’re not snippy anymore.


#12
[quote="Captain Cranky, post:8, topic:447"]Ok. Sorry if I was snippy. Just getting tired of too many people trying to coach from the sidelines.

Wondering why people can not just sit back and enjoy the games.

I am sure Ed has his vision. Just because he doesnt include people from an internet message board in one his vision, doesnt mean it doesnt exist.[/quote]

Well I’m glad you’re not snippy anymore.

Gee thanks.

Thats the first friendly thing anyone has ever said to me on here. :slight_smile:


#13

[quote=“chicago lion, post:1, topic:447”]I am not sure what this means? Does it mean all he wants to do is fast break? Well wouldn’t we all like that. I watch us and it is the same thing every time. We toss is around the three point line and then someone chucks it up. I do not understand why we do not pass down low even if we are only going to pass it right back outside.

So I guess in short my question is, what is Ed’s vision? Are we getting close to that?[/quote]

I think his vision… as far as I can tell from his comments… is winning the Big Ten at Penn State. We are certainly closer than we were 7 years ago, and last year came much closer than I thought would have been likely with that team. I hate to look ahead to next year already - but everyone on the roster is back and Buie comes in - so yeah I think he might be getting even closer.


#14

To put it pretty simply, if PSU has numbers and can take advantage of the other team in transition, they want to run. If the other team can take away the break, then they want to set-up the offense. The offense that we run is really based upon moving the ball around with safe passes and screens (both on and off the ball) trying to get an open look. Once the clock runs down, they will usually get it in the hands of a guard and either clear out or run a high pick and roll. We don’t put the ball into the paint nearly enough for my liking, however it does have some advantages as you’re much more likely to turn it over when you’re not forcing it inside or having your bigs handle it (as evidenced by us being in the top 20% in turnover percentage each of the last 3 years).

The issues with not putting away teams like UMBC early run much deeper than at PSU. College athletes sometimes have trouble taking a team like that seriously or getting up to play a mid-week game in a half empty gym against a team that everyone thinks you should kill. It’s not always pretty, but games like tonight are a lose/lose situation as the other team has a lot more to gain. Luckily we woke up in time.


#15
[quote="Captain Cranky, post:8, topic:447"]Ok. Sorry if I was snippy. Just getting tired of too many people trying to coach from the sidelines.

Wondering why people can not just sit back and enjoy the games.

I am sure Ed has his vision. Just because he doesnt include people from an internet message board in one his vision, doesnt mean it doesnt exist.[/quote]

Well I’m glad you’re not snippy anymore.

Gee thanks.

Thats the first friendly thing anyone has ever said to me on here. :slight_smile:

I like your moniker, so that’s two friendly things. ;D How’d you come up with that?

It makes me think of cereal. I’m going to go get a bowl, but not the brand your moniker reminds me of. I didn’t like that one. Sugar induced comas were too regular.

I used to live in Arizona. Had my own company, now defunct, named it Coyote Systems. Half the biz’s in Arizona have Coyote in their name. Tried coyotekid on yahoo(these were early webmail days, '98), already taken, so was kidcoyote, but not kidcoyote_98, suggested by yahoo, so that be it ever since. Would like to change it, but see anguish Skeeza goes thru, formerly known as PSU4Ever, on every post reminding everyone on who he used to be, but not anymore, so decided against it. Not worth it.

To attempt to get me back on topic, great points frats on the TO’s going inside, but tonight’s passes were kind of sloppy at the arc. Talor threw a few away, couple other guys too.


#16

I would say that Ed’s ideal type of team is a fast paced team that gets many points in transition and one that also is tough on D and likes to play defense. Why we aren’t seeing this type of basketball program is dissapointing and it isn’t quite clear whose more at fault, Penn State’s basketball program (left in shambles, no tradition etc…) or ED.

I’d say that Uconn is a team that fits Ed’s vision, very good on defense and a Jim Calhoun offense that stresses transition and fast break points.


#17

[quote=“PSUBaller, post:16, topic:447”]I would say that Ed’s ideal type of team is a fast paced team that gets many points in transition and one that also is tough on D and likes to play defense. Why we aren’t seeing this type of basketball program is dissapointing and it isn’t quite clear whose more at fault, Penn State’s basketball program (left in shambles, no tradition etc…) or ED.

I’d say that Uconn is a team that fits Ed’s vision, very good on defense and a Jim Calhoun offense that stresses transition and fast break points. [/quote]

Transition points are great, but what do you do after an opponent’s bucket? That’s been a problem.


#18
[quote="Captain Cranky, post:8, topic:447"]Ok. Sorry if I was snippy. Just getting tired of too many people trying to coach from the sidelines.

Wondering why people can not just sit back and enjoy the games.

I am sure Ed has his vision. Just because he doesnt include people from an internet message board in one his vision, doesnt mean it doesnt exist.[/quote]

Well I’m glad you’re not snippy anymore.

Gee thanks.

Thats the first friendly thing anyone has ever said to me on here. :slight_smile:

I like your moniker, so that’s two friendly things. ;D How’d you come up with that?

It makes me think of cereal. I’m going to go get a bowl, but not the brand your moniker reminds me of. I didn’t like that one. Sugar induced comas were too regular.

I used to live in Arizona. Had my own company, now defunct, named it Coyote Systems. Half the biz’s in Arizona have Coyote in their name. Tried coyotekid on yahoo(these were early webmail days, '98), already taken, so was kidcoyote, but not kidcoyote_98, suggested by yahoo, so that be it ever since. Would like to change it, but see anguish Skeeza goes thru, formerly known as PSU4Ever, on every post reminding everyone on who he used to be, but not anymore, so decided against it. Not worth it.

To attempt to get me back on topic, great points frats on the TO’s going inside, but tonight’s passes were kind of sloppy at the arc. Talor threw a few away, couple other guys too.

He stole it from a post Cappy made calling UncleLar that name. Why do I know that? I’ll never tell. ;D


#19

[quote=“PSUBaller, post:16, topic:447”]I would say that Ed’s ideal type of team is a fast paced team that gets many points in transition and one that also is tough on D and likes to play defense. Why we aren’t seeing this type of basketball program is dissapointing and it isn’t quite clear whose more at fault, Penn State’s basketball program (left in shambles, no tradition etc…) or ED.

I’d say that Uconn is a team that fits Ed’s vision, very good on defense and a Jim Calhoun offense that stresses transition and fast break points. [/quote]

I’d argue at Michigan State is a better example as to the style ED wants to get to. They play great D, rebound like crazy, and transition better than any team in the B-10. I don’t think we defend or rebound nearly as well, but we don’t go 2-deep with 4 star athletes like they do, either. ED can’t go 100% MSU on anybody so he has to adjust his style a bit for what he can put on the floor, but I think if you asked him what his ideal team looked like, it would look a lot like an Izzo team.

However, if you look as Izzo teams, their 1/2 court sets are not that impressive. If you can get them into a tracor pull, you have a chance. Unless you’re UNC… MSU tried to run with them and it looked llike Carl Lewis vs Barbaro. I swear, that ACC challenge game was something. You could see the UNC kids just light up like “OK, so you wanna run… let’s go” and they just ran 'em right out of the gym.


#20
I would say that Ed's ideal type of team is a fast paced team that gets many points in transition and one that also is tough on D and likes to play defense. Why we aren't seeing this type of basketball program is dissapointing and it isn't quite clear whose more at fault, Penn State's basketball program (left in shambles, no tradition etc..) or ED.

I’d say that Uconn is a team that fits Ed’s vision, very good on defense and a Jim Calhoun offense that stresses transition and fast break points.

I’d argue at Michigan State is a better example as to the style ED wants to get to. They play great D, rebound like crazy, and transition better than any team in the B-10. I don’t think we defend or rebound nearly as well, but we don’t go 2-deep with 4 star athletes like they do, either. ED can’t go 100% MSU on anybody so he has to adjust his style a bit for what he can put on the floor, but I think if you asked him what his ideal team looked like, it would look a lot like an Izzo team.

However, if you look as Izzo teams, their 1/2 court sets are not that impressive. If you can get them into a tracor pull, you have a chance. Unless you’re UNC… MSU tried to run with them and it looked llike Carl Lewis vs Barbaro. I swear, that ACC challenge game was something. You could see the UNC kids just light up like “OK, so you wanna run… let’s go” and they just ran 'em right out of the gym.

I think you’re right. I just don’t understand why teams that run can’t have good 1/2 court sets, and visa versa. Wisky can’t run, but has good 1/2 court sets. Look what they did to Duke. I remember Carmody at Princeton saying, “we don’t run”. They did 3’s and layups, usually back doors, always in the 1/2 court set. Not sure why PSU can’t do that in the 1/2 court. It’s like they limit themselves to perimeter passing for a 3. Someone pointed out that going inside to the bigs risks an errant pass, which may be true. But what about a back door run? No better way to beat high pressure D at the arc. Back doors nullify high pressure D and work vs. more athletic teams, which is why NW uses them, as they’re always less athletic than their opponent. Key to back door passing is the passer getting closer to the runner prior to the pass, by closing the spacing gap, then the bounce pass is short and quick, giving defender less time to recover. Plus, the runner’s cover gets more concerned with the passer as he gets closer, making it easier for the runner to go backdoor.

Pete Carrill wrote a book entitled, “The Smart Take From the Strong”, which is what Princeton sometimes did, why they got upsets. If you think about it, PSU doesn’t really do this. When we’re stronger, faster, etc., we win, like last night, SHU, Davidson, etc. Watching Indiana last night, they played smart, and kind of made it look easy. That zone of theirs is going to be trouble for PSU. Indiana was not faster nor stronger than Pitt, though they easily handled them.