PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Wasted $$$ in college sports

Interesting article from Gregg Easterbrook:

Why are athletic departments so big?

Ohio State lists 458 people in its athletic department. Included are the athletic director (who's also a vice president of the university), four people with the title senior associate athletic director, [b]12 associate athletic directors[/b], an associate vice president, a "senior associate legal counsel for athletics" and[b] plus a nine-person NCAA compliance office[/b]. NCAA rules are complex, to be sure, but does Ohio State really needs nine people who do nothing but push NCAA paperwork? The Ohio State NCAA compliance staff is lean and mean compared to the football staff, which includes 13 football coaches, a director of football operations, three associate directors of football operations, a "director of football performance" and three football-only trainers.

To be fair, those 458 people include maintainance crews for the basketball and football arenas.

But, it seems there are way too many people getting rich off the backs of the kids who are not allowed to get their own share !!!

*edit: Had to repair the Link

It’s big business at it’s finest. Will never understand the idea that an education, which costs the university next to nothing marginally speaking, could ever account for the amount of money some of these athletes make these schools… and the fact that the pro leagues they wish they join but can’t put rules in now allowing them, and this is somehow thought of still as a FREE country… well… i’ll leave it at that I guess.

But needless to say, there is a lot of greed in this country and college athletes have been getting exploited for a long time as a result. How any of it is legal still goes way over my head I guess, but most people seem okay with it so I guess I’ll have to be also.

When you think about the guys associated with PSU that spend time tweeting, it kind of makes you feel they have too much time on their hands. Lots of assistant this and assistant that. In the pros, when the Knicks won the championship in 1970, there was coach Red Holtzman and Danny Whelan, the trainer. That was it. Kind of nutty what’s happened.

Actually, the schools feel cheated by the NCAA. The numbers are unreal. Bob Huggins was complaining about it. I forget the exact numbers, but it was something like $300 million in NCAA basketball revenues, and the schools were splitting $225 million. When asked what happened to the rest, he answered, “I don’t know, but Walter Byers(NCAA head) has a pretty big farm.”

[quote=“Craftsy21, post:2, topic:1650”]It’s big business at it’s finest. Will never understand the idea that an education, which costs the university next to nothing marginally speaking, could ever account for the amount of money some of these athletes make these schools… and the fact that the pro leagues they wish they join but can’t put rules in now allowing them, and this is somehow thought of still as a FREE country… well… i’ll leave it at that I guess.

But needless to say, there is a lot of greed in this country and college athletes have been getting exploited for a long time as a result. How any of it is legal still goes way over my head I guess, but most people seem okay with it so I guess I’ll have to be also.[/quote]

As someone who is currently paying for two daughters’ education, I can tell you that the VALUE of those scholarships is VERY HIGH. I wish my daughters could have been “exploited” a little by the big bad colleges, NCAA and TV money. ::slight_smile:

[quote=“kidcoyote, post:3, topic:1650”]When you think about the guys associated with PSU that spend time tweeting, it kind of makes you feel they have too much time on their hands. Lots of assistant this and assistant that. In the pros, when the Knicks won the championship in 1970, there was coach Red Holtzman and Danny Whelan, the trainer. That was it. Kind of nutty what’s happened.

Actually, the schools feel cheated by the NCAA. The numbers are unreal. Bob Huggins was complaining about it. I forget the exact numbers, but it was something like $300 million in NCAA basketball revenues, and the schools were splitting $225 million. When asked what happened to the rest, he answered, “I don’t know, but Walter Byers(NCAA head) has a pretty big farm.”[/quote]

Mixing threads…Danny Whelan was the trainer for the Pittsburgh Pirates in the 1960 season!

[quote="Craftsy21, post:2, topic:1650"]It's big business at it's finest. Will never understand the idea that an education, which costs the university next to nothing marginally speaking, could ever account for the amount of money some of these athletes make these schools... and the fact that the pro leagues they wish they join but can't put rules in now allowing them, and this is somehow thought of still as a FREE country... well... i'll leave it at that I guess.

But needless to say, there is a lot of greed in this country and college athletes have been getting exploited for a long time as a result. How any of it is legal still goes way over my head I guess, but most people seem okay with it so I guess I’ll have to be also.[/quote]

As someone who is currently paying for two daughters’ education, I can tell you that the VALUE of those scholarships is VERY HIGH. I wish my daughters could have been “exploited” a little by the big bad colleges, NCAA and TV money. ::slight_smile:

The value of them varies, certainly - for you it might be expensive, for kids in certain situations the cost might be next to nothing after qualifying for all the aid/grants/scholarships they possibly can. You’re still looking at it backwards - if Tim Tebow makes UF a billion dollars during his time at that school, do you really think a 15k-30k a year scholarship is a sufficient reward?

99 percent of the world will never make ANYBODY that much money. If you were working in a company and made them a billion dollars in a four year span, do you think 30k a year would be enough money for your salary? On top of that, it’s not like he can just say “screw you i’ll join another company who will give me more for the dollars i can bring in” because the NFL has told him if he wants to play in their league, he has to wait 3 years after high school to enter the draft. So his BEST option is to make that 20k while he single-handedly employs hundreds of people in a program by bringing in the big bucks.

What kind of society makes that a person’s BEST option and acts like he/she should just be grateful for it?

Scholarships are great for non-revenue sports. They don’t make a lick of sense for athletic programs that employ hundreds of staff members and make millions of dollars off the performances of the athletes. It’s time to stop pretending.

The answer isn’t paying the players, the answer is stop trying to exploit every nickel and penny possible from the fanbase and get back to some reasonableness in terms of the size of these Athletic depts. IN the end, most of the money goes to other athletic programs. The BBall and FBall players are being ‘exploited’ so the women’s softball team and fencing team and gymnastics team and …can play a big ten schedule and play all over the country. Have non-revenue bearing sports play a more ‘local’ schedule and cut down on all of the expenses and no need to exploit every dollar from BBall and FBall.

Some good points Cletus! But, while football makes money in some major conference schools football also spends a TON of money. 110 (approx.) players. Huge coaching staff, huge support staff. Equipment, insurance, food, etc, etc. Think of smaller classification schools. They are rolling in red ink because of football and also Title 9. BUT, if these small schools chose NOT to have football they could run responsible programs in many other sports at modest costs.

[quote="Cletus11, post:7, topic:1650"]The answer isn't paying the players, the answer is stop trying to exploit every nickel and penny possible from the fanbase and get back to some reasonableness in terms of the size of these Athletic depts. IN the end, most of the money goes to other athletic programs. The BBall and FBall players are being 'exploited' so the women's softball team and fencing team and gymnastics team and .....can play a big ten schedule and play all over the country. Have non-revenue bearing sports play a more 'local' schedule and cut down on all of the expenses and no need to exploit every dollar from BBall and FBall.[/quote]

Some good points Cletus! But, while football makes money in some major conference schools football also spends a TON of money. 110 (approx.) players. Huge coaching staff, huge support staff. Equipment, insurance, food, etc, etc. Think of smaller classification schools. They are rolling in red ink because of football and also Title 9. BUT, if these small schools chose NOT to have football they could run responsible programs in many other sports at modest costs.

I agree completely, the NCAA has to step in and stop this ‘keep up with the Joneses’ type attitude that just keeps escalating. Mandate staff sizes and AD dept. sizes based on each individual sport so they don’t get bloated. Mandate maximum expenditures on things. ALmost like a luxury tax type arrangement to stop this constant urge for more and more money.

It’s like the high school kid who is failing all his classes. The teacher asks why he is doing so bad and his answer is because he is working all the time to make money. The teacher asks why he needs the money. The kid replies to pay for his car. The teacher asks what he needs a car for. The kid’s answer is to drive to work.

[quote="Cletus11, post:7, topic:1650"]The answer isn't paying the players, the answer is stop trying to exploit every nickel and penny possible from the fanbase and get back to some reasonableness in terms of the size of these Athletic depts. IN the end, most of the money goes to other athletic programs. The BBall and FBall players are being 'exploited' so the women's softball team and fencing team and gymnastics team and .....can play a big ten schedule and play all over the country. Have non-revenue bearing sports play a more 'local' schedule and cut down on all of the expenses and no need to exploit every dollar from BBall and FBall.[/quote]

Some good points Cletus! But, while football makes money in some major conference schools football also spends a TON of money. 110 (approx.) players. Huge coaching staff, huge support staff. Equipment, insurance, food, etc, etc. Think of smaller classification schools. They are rolling in red ink because of football and also Title 9. BUT, if these small schools chose NOT to have football they could run responsible programs in many other sports at modest costs.

I agree completely, the NCAA has to step in and stop this ‘keep up with the Joneses’ type attitude that just keeps escalating. Mandate staff sizes and AD dept. sizes based on each individual sport so they don’t get bloated. Mandate maximum expenditures on things. ALmost like a luxury tax type arrangement to stop this constant urge for more and more money.

That sounds pretty heavy handed, and not sure why it is necessary. You know, these ‘big’ athletic department budgets are tiny, tiny fractions of the overall budgets for a big university like Ohio State or Penn State. They are mostly (or in the case of PSU, entirely) self-funding, so the budget for athletics net of revenues is hardly anything compared to an overall budget of several billion dollars. before you start suggesting tons of regulation, identify why there is really a problem. 458 employees for a big operation doesn’t tell me anything about how much money is wasted. it was also pointed out that number includes maintenance employees. systems and organizations of any complexity whatsoever don’t operate on autopilot

NCAA step in? And do what, kill the golden goose? The NCAA admin gets something like 20-25% of all tourney revenue. They don’t want it stopped. Why do you think there’s tourney expansion? $$$$$$$

I have never met an education administrator who wanted smaller departments. Never. It’s always bigger, more staff, etc. If you have 3 assistants, then make it 6, you have a bigger budget, and it looks like you have a more important job, so you get more $. That’s why there are asst. coaches, sports info directors, asst. AD.s, etc. It’s like Congress. Not to pick on Ted Kennedy, but some years ago I read he had a staff of 64. When you have committee chairmanships, or you’re on committees, you get staff and budgets. Same in universities. You get so many staff, they have to build new buildings. No joke. Harvard University built more square feet to their campus since the year 2000 than they did in their prior history, which must be 400 years. I think it was 10 million sq. feet. They may have cancelled some, as the debacle in '08 crushed their endowment, but it certainly wasn’t planned due to a growing student body.

[quote="Craftsy21, post:2, topic:1650"]It's big business at it's finest. Will never understand the idea that an education, which costs the university next to nothing marginally speaking, could ever account for the amount of money some of these athletes make these schools... and the fact that the pro leagues they wish they join but can't put rules in now allowing them, and this is somehow thought of still as a FREE country... well... i'll leave it at that I guess.

But needless to say, there is a lot of greed in this country and college athletes have been getting exploited for a long time as a result. How any of it is legal still goes way over my head I guess, but most people seem okay with it so I guess I’ll have to be also.[/quote]

As someone who is currently paying for two daughters’ education, I can tell you that the VALUE of those scholarships is VERY HIGH. I wish my daughters could have been “exploited” a little by the big bad colleges, NCAA and TV money. ::slight_smile:

The value of them varies, certainly - for you it might be expensive, for kids in certain situations the cost might be next to nothing after qualifying for all the aid/grants/scholarships they possibly can. You’re still looking at it backwards - if Tim Tebow makes UF a billion dollars during his time at that school, do you really think a 15k-30k a year scholarship is a sufficient reward?

99 percent of the world will never make ANYBODY that much money. If you were working in a company and made them a billion dollars in a four year span, do you think 30k a year would be enough money for your salary? On top of that, it’s not like he can just say “screw you i’ll join another company who will give me more for the dollars i can bring in” because the NFL has told him if he wants to play in their league, he has to wait 3 years after high school to enter the draft. So his BEST option is to make that 20k while he single-handedly employs hundreds of people in a program by bringing in the big bucks.

What kind of society makes that a person’s BEST option and acts like he/she should just be grateful for it?

Scholarships are great for non-revenue sports. They don’t make a lick of sense for athletic programs that employ hundreds of staff members and make millions of dollars off the performances of the athletes. It’s time to stop pretending.

I have never understood the attitude that scholarship athletes are “exploited”. I think they should be handed a little more spending money, but nothing extreme. The free education is worth a ton more than just the cost of tuition, board and books. Think of the earning power they gain from being a college graduate – esp. from a high profile program. Tim Tebow is a bad example. Florida turned him into a first round draft pick in the NFL. So how was he exploited? He’s making millions now because of the opportunity he got in college. I’d love to have been so exploited.

[quote="Craftsy21, post:2, topic:1650"]It's big business at it's finest. Will never understand the idea that an education, which costs the university next to nothing marginally speaking, could ever account for the amount of money some of these athletes make these schools... and the fact that the pro leagues they wish they join but can't put rules in now allowing them, and this is somehow thought of still as a FREE country... well... i'll leave it at that I guess.

But needless to say, there is a lot of greed in this country and college athletes have been getting exploited for a long time as a result. How any of it is legal still goes way over my head I guess, but most people seem okay with it so I guess I’ll have to be also.[/quote]

As someone who is currently paying for two daughters’ education, I can tell you that the VALUE of those scholarships is VERY HIGH. I wish my daughters could have been “exploited” a little by the big bad colleges, NCAA and TV money. ::slight_smile:

The value of them varies, certainly - for you it might be expensive, for kids in certain situations the cost might be next to nothing after qualifying for all the aid/grants/scholarships they possibly can. You’re still looking at it backwards - if Tim Tebow makes UF a billion dollars during his time at that school, do you really think a 15k-30k a year scholarship is a sufficient reward?

99 percent of the world will never make ANYBODY that much money. If you were working in a company and made them a billion dollars in a four year span, do you think 30k a year would be enough money for your salary? On top of that, it’s not like he can just say “screw you i’ll join another company who will give me more for the dollars i can bring in” because the NFL has told him if he wants to play in their league, he has to wait 3 years after high school to enter the draft. So his BEST option is to make that 20k while he single-handedly employs hundreds of people in a program by bringing in the big bucks.

What kind of society makes that a person’s BEST option and acts like he/she should just be grateful for it?

Scholarships are great for non-revenue sports. They don’t make a lick of sense for athletic programs that employ hundreds of staff members and make millions of dollars off the performances of the athletes. It’s time to stop pretending.

I have never understood the attitude that scholarship athletes are “exploited”. I think they should be handed a little more spending money, but nothing extreme. The free education is worth a ton more than just the cost of tuition, board and books. Think of the earning power they gain from being a college graduate – esp. from a high profile program. Tim Tebow is a bad example. Florida turned him into a first round draft pick in the NFL. So how was he exploited? He’s making millions now because of the opportunity he got in college. I’d love to have been so exploited.

If this were 1960 I might agree with you. The “earning power” from being a college graduate isn’t quite the same commodity it used to be, and it continues to dwindle as more and more people have 4-year degrees. Plus most of the “high profile programs” in football aren’t exactly killer academic schools that are going to wow a company in an interview. And on top of that, people talking about college athletes always seem to act like they can’t go get their degree on their own time/dime sometime down the line. Sure the chances dwindle that they actually will, but you’re not giving them a once in a lifetime opportunity to get a degree - they are free to do it whenever they choose. You are however, putting off their potential to make money while they go ahead and make you millions in the meantime.

Sure, Florida helped expose Tebow - but Tebow didn’t really have a choice, is the point. The NFL says he can’t join their league until 3 years out of high school, and the best place to get exposure for NFL scouts is in college football. You don’t think that’s a little anti-trust situation they have going on? In fact, he should have bee much more grateful to both the NCAA and NFL come to think of it… Maybe say something like, “Oh thank you NFL for forcing me to goto some school and put my payday at the risk of serious injury for 3 more years”

That kind of thinking would not fly in any other private sector career in the USA, but for some reason we think it makes sense for athletes and college sports.

and the cost of a college education has skyrocketed since 1960. Not having a boatload of debt by the age of 22 is a nice advantage. The earning power of a degree is a bit different when you are $50,000-$100,000 in the hole from the get go.

[quote="Craftsy21, post:2, topic:1650"]It's big business at it's finest. Will never understand the idea that an education, which costs the university next to nothing marginally speaking, could ever account for the amount of money some of these athletes make these schools... and the fact that the pro leagues they wish they join but can't put rules in now allowing them, and this is somehow thought of still as a FREE country... well... i'll leave it at that I guess.

But needless to say, there is a lot of greed in this country and college athletes have been getting exploited for a long time as a result. How any of it is legal still goes way over my head I guess, but most people seem okay with it so I guess I’ll have to be also.[/quote]

As someone who is currently paying for two daughters’ education, I can tell you that the VALUE of those scholarships is VERY HIGH. I wish my daughters could have been “exploited” a little by the big bad colleges, NCAA and TV money. ::slight_smile:

The value of them varies, certainly - for you it might be expensive, for kids in certain situations the cost might be next to nothing after qualifying for all the aid/grants/scholarships they possibly can. You’re still looking at it backwards - if Tim Tebow makes UF a billion dollars during his time at that school, do you really think a 15k-30k a year scholarship is a sufficient reward?

99 percent of the world will never make ANYBODY that much money. If you were working in a company and made them a billion dollars in a four year span, do you think 30k a year would be enough money for your salary? On top of that, it’s not like he can just say “screw you i’ll join another company who will give me more for the dollars i can bring in” because the NFL has told him if he wants to play in their league, he has to wait 3 years after high school to enter the draft. So his BEST option is to make that 20k while he single-handedly employs hundreds of people in a program by bringing in the big bucks.

What kind of society makes that a person’s BEST option and acts like he/she should just be grateful for it?

Scholarships are great for non-revenue sports. They don’t make a lick of sense for athletic programs that employ hundreds of staff members and make millions of dollars off the performances of the athletes. It’s time to stop pretending.

I have never understood the attitude that scholarship athletes are “exploited”. I think they should be handed a little more spending money, but nothing extreme. The free education is worth a ton more than just the cost of tuition, board and books. Think of the earning power they gain from being a college graduate – esp. from a high profile program. Tim Tebow is a bad example. Florida turned him into a first round draft pick in the NFL. So how was he exploited? He’s making millions now because of the opportunity he got in college. I’d love to have been so exploited.

If this were 1960 I might agree with you. The “earning power” from being a college graduate isn’t quite the same commodity it used to be, and it continues to dwindle as more and more people have 4-year degrees. Plus most of the “high profile programs” in football aren’t exactly killer academic schools that are going to wow a company in an interview. And on top of that, people talking about college athletes always seem to act like they can’t go get their degree on their own time/dime sometime down the line. Sure the chances dwindle that they actually will, but you’re not giving them a once in a lifetime opportunity to get a degree - they are free to do it whenever they choose. You are however, putting off their potential to make money while they go ahead and make you millions in the meantime.

Sure, Florida helped expose Tebow - but Tebow didn’t really have a choice, is the point. The NFL says he can’t join their league until 3 years out of high school, and the best place to get exposure for NFL scouts is in college football. You don’t think that’s a little anti-trust situation they have going on? In fact, he should have bee much more grateful to both the NCAA and NFL come to think of it… Maybe say something like, “Oh thank you NFL for forcing me to goto some school and put my payday at the risk of serious injury for 3 more years”

That kind of thinking would not fly in any other private sector career in the USA, but for some reason we think it makes sense for athletes and college sports.

I thought the point was colleges exploiting athletes. Now the point is an NFL rule?

Do you think the young women on our volleyball team feel exploited? They put as much effort into their team and their education as football players. The difference is that football pays the tab for volleyball. So maybe it’s the volleyball team exploiting the football players? We could talk this in circles forever. The bottom line is that scholarship athletes got something that most of us wish we had – an education paid for by playing a game we would play anyway.

I remember a conversation I had with one of the players back when I was in school. He was not a good student and not really an NFL prospect. I asked him why he was wasting the opportunity to get a free education. His reply was surprising. He said he had no interest in college and that, basically, the scholarship was allowing him to have fun for five years (redshirt year) before he started having to work for a living.

I agree that the players should get some spending money, but you’ll never convince me that they’re not getting a great deal just because the colleges are making a lot of money.

[quote="Craftsy21, post:2, topic:1650"]It's big business at it's finest. Will never understand the idea that an education, which costs the university next to nothing marginally speaking, could ever account for the amount of money some of these athletes make these schools... and the fact that the pro leagues they wish they join but can't put rules in now allowing them, and this is somehow thought of still as a FREE country... well... i'll leave it at that I guess.

But needless to say, there is a lot of greed in this country and college athletes have been getting exploited for a long time as a result. How any of it is legal still goes way over my head I guess, but most people seem okay with it so I guess I’ll have to be also.[/quote]

As someone who is currently paying for two daughters’ education, I can tell you that the VALUE of those scholarships is VERY HIGH. I wish my daughters could have been “exploited” a little by the big bad colleges, NCAA and TV money. ::slight_smile:

The value of them varies, certainly - for you it might be expensive, for kids in certain situations the cost might be next to nothing after qualifying for all the aid/grants/scholarships they possibly can. You’re still looking at it backwards - if Tim Tebow makes UF a billion dollars during his time at that school, do you really think a 15k-30k a year scholarship is a sufficient reward?

99 percent of the world will never make ANYBODY that much money. If you were working in a company and made them a billion dollars in a four year span, do you think 30k a year would be enough money for your salary? On top of that, it’s not like he can just say “screw you i’ll join another company who will give me more for the dollars i can bring in” because the NFL has told him if he wants to play in their league, he has to wait 3 years after high school to enter the draft. So his BEST option is to make that 20k while he single-handedly employs hundreds of people in a program by bringing in the big bucks.

What kind of society makes that a person’s BEST option and acts like he/she should just be grateful for it?

Scholarships are great for non-revenue sports. They don’t make a lick of sense for athletic programs that employ hundreds of staff members and make millions of dollars off the performances of the athletes. It’s time to stop pretending.

I have never understood the attitude that scholarship athletes are “exploited”. I think they should be handed a little more spending money, but nothing extreme. The free education is worth a ton more than just the cost of tuition, board and books. Think of the earning power they gain from being a college graduate – esp. from a high profile program. Tim Tebow is a bad example. Florida turned him into a first round draft pick in the NFL. So how was he exploited? He’s making millions now because of the opportunity he got in college. I’d love to have been so exploited.

If this were 1960 I might agree with you. The “earning power” from being a college graduate isn’t quite the same commodity it used to be, and it continues to dwindle as more and more people have 4-year degrees. Plus most of the “high profile programs” in football aren’t exactly killer academic schools that are going to wow a company in an interview. And on top of that, people talking about college athletes always seem to act like they can’t go get their degree on their own time/dime sometime down the line. Sure the chances dwindle that they actually will, but you’re not giving them a once in a lifetime opportunity to get a degree - they are free to do it whenever they choose. You are however, putting off their potential to make money while they go ahead and make you millions in the meantime.

Sure, Florida helped expose Tebow - but Tebow didn’t really have a choice, is the point. The NFL says he can’t join their league until 3 years out of high school, and the best place to get exposure for NFL scouts is in college football. You don’t think that’s a little anti-trust situation they have going on? In fact, he should have bee much more grateful to both the NCAA and NFL come to think of it… Maybe say something like, “Oh thank you NFL for forcing me to goto some school and put my payday at the risk of serious injury for 3 more years”

That kind of thinking would not fly in any other private sector career in the USA, but for some reason we think it makes sense for athletes and college sports.

I thought the point was colleges exploiting athletes. Now the point is an NFL rule?

Do you think the young women on our volleyball team feel exploited? They put as much effort into their team and their education as football players. The difference is that football pays the tab for volleyball. So maybe it’s the volleyball team exploiting the football players? We could talk this in circles forever. The bottom line is that scholarship athletes got something that most of us wish we had – an education paid for by playing a game we would play anyway.

In college, I learned a word that can be used to describe this situation… socialism. :-X

I have my PROBLEM with the pro leagues who set unfair entry stanards to their league. (NFL and NBA.) They empower the colleges to become “pro minor leagues.” Oh yeah, I have a problem with the “bought and payed for” courts who uphold this age discrimination!!

Yeah, and the colleges are more than happy to be pro minor leagues!!

[quote="Craftsy21, post:13, topic:1650"]If this were 1960 I might agree with you. The "earning power" from being a college graduate isn't quite the same commodity it used to be, and it continues to dwindle as more and more people have 4-year degrees.[/quote]

and the cost of a college education has skyrocketed since 1960. Not having a boatload of debt by the age of 22 is a nice advantage. The earning power of a degree is a bit different when you are $50,000-$100,000 in the hole from the get go.

The cost of paying for it themselves has skyrocketed, sure… But the cost of providing it as a scholarship has probably stayed relatively the same, or even decreased in some cases… there is no added cost of providing one more student with a free of charge seat in any given class. And even adding up all the athletes at a school puts very little strain on the school as a whole since they would be operating those classes with or without those scholarship students anyhow.

So it might be saving them money, but you can’t prove that all those students would even attend college in the first place, nor can you prove they wouldn’t qualify for financial aid of varying degrees on top of that - so we really have no idea just how much money a scholarship is worth to a student, but we know the cost is relatively low to the schools - especially for football teams when you compare it to the amount of money some can bring in for the school.

I thought the point was colleges exploiting athletes. Now the point is an NFL rule?

Do you think the young women on our volleyball team feel exploited? They put as much effort into their team and their education as football players. The difference is that football pays the tab for volleyball. So maybe it’s the volleyball team exploiting the football players? We could talk this in circles forever. The bottom line is that scholarship athletes got something that most of us wish we had – an education paid for by playing a game we would play anyway.

On your first point, if you don’t see how the two are intertwined I can’t help you. Colleges are happy to play their part in the game, but the pro leagues are guilty parties also. They work together, if you hadn’t realized this. I think you’re just being hypercritical of my wording however, so I’ll most on.

Your last line makes no sense really - what if I were to replace that education you refer to as “something most of us wish we had” with “a double cheeseburger”? Just because it’s something people may value doesn’t mean it’s the appropriate amount of compensation for services rendered or monetary gains earned for an institution. I’m not 100% sure what the correct answer is, and maybe it’s a sliding scale based on performance or actual returns on investment… but to just pick out an arbitrary reward and give it to each and every athlete across the board and tell everyone to be happy with that seems pretty idiotic to me.

Pretend I’m a big time athlete at a BCS school… What if I don’t want an education? I don’t care about a degree, who are you to tell me what I should value in my own life? What if I’d rather just have my cheeseburger and not have to worry about classes? Who are you to tell me otherwise when I have made this school 10 million dollars in the last 3 months? There aren’t even any other realistic places to take my talents until I’m eligible for the pro draft, how is that capitalistic at all? Where is the SEC on such an issue?

I think too many people are just perfectly happy with the status quo to ever go making changes that won’t make their own lives better, even if it means depriving others by keeping things the same. There is far too much of this “we know what’s best for you” mentality with the NCAA and people who support these age rules and outdated “amateur” qualifiers.