VT game recap


#1

Battle was great with 32 points and 8 rebounds, but only 3-10 from the FT line.

Jackson was solid with 12 points and 7 rebounds. He’ll never be a star but he plays hard and to the best of his ability.

Frazier has to look to shoot the ball both inside and out. He is quick enough to take his man to the basket and draw the foul. I don’t know about his perimeter shooting, but he’s got to try. He was 1-5 from the field, but you can tell that he was reluctant to shoot on a couple of his misses.

Jones played a little better in the first half then got some unlucky fouls. 7 pts, 5 rebounds, and 2 blocks is OK but we need more.

I have no use for Brooks. He was once again schooled on defense. His offense is soft - all from the perimeter. 2pts and 1 rebound is a disaster IMO.

Bench:

  • Ott played as well as he could.
  • No comment on Woodyard.
  • Babb had 6 rebounds but was otherwise horrible. 1-7 from the field. Intentional foul. Double teamed Delaney on late OOB situation to deny him the ball and Babb let Delaney split him & Frazier.
  • Edwards 2 pts and 2 rebounds. He lacks discipline but Ed has to get him more minutes. PSU has nobody else who can score down low.

The difference in this game was once again the big men. Jeff Allen had 12 points and 10 rebounds for VT. PSU had no answer for him defensively. Our bigs used up a lot of fouls on him and that got VT in the double penalty early.


#2

While it didn’t directly cost us the game - to me the most important part of the game was when we were really seeming to get it together in the 2nd half, Battle makes a great pass to Jones on the low block who gets blocked from behind at point blank range to the rim… it’s taken on the fast break the other way and Babb takes the intentional foul.

It wasn’t really the points that hurt us so much as the momentum. What should’ve been an easy 2 (or 3 possibly) ends up going the other way and deflating the whole arena with a momentum killing call.


#3

Frazier had several short flip shots in the second half that all came up short, and I think a few others did too. Any nobody could get offensive rebounds.

Most of Battle’s missed three throws were short. I don’t think his form on the foul line helps him. He kind of pushes the ball at the basket.

A couple of threes by Babb at key moments and it’s a different game.


#4

Babb’s intentional foul was the correct call. Reason is that he reached with both hands. A hard foul with one hand would not have been called intentional.

Lack of offensive rebounds is nothing new. We were dominated on the offensive boards at Temple. That’s why Edwards needs more PT IMO. I know that he’s young but nobody else has the demeanor to attack the offensive glass.

Frazier has to become more offensive minded. I don’t care if he takes the ball to the basket and gets blocked or if he shoots 1-10 from the perimeter. He needs to get bumped around and develop an attitude.


#5

We lost the game because of poor shooting. 13/22 (59%) from the foul line and 22/65 from the floor (34%) including 7/24 from 3 pt land (29%). It’s amazing we came close to winning. If we just shoot 40% from the floor and 70% from the foul line, we win by 10 or 15. We have shot horribly in all our losses - all games we could have won with a little better shooting.


#6

I agree with this. He really defers to TB. I thought he had opportunities to take the ball to the basket but never really tried.


#7

Poor shooting is one way to look at it - but the other is that we’re taking bad shots that we can’t be expected to make at much higher a percentage.

You can only chuck and duck for so long - sure you’ll surprise some teams on the nights you’re on, but we’ve got to get inside points more consistently before we can expect to have a nice percentage from the field on a nightly basis.


#8

[quote=“bdroc, post:4, topic:480”]Babb’s intentional foul was the correct call. Reason is that he reached with both hands. A hard foul with one hand would not have been called intentional.

Lack of offensive rebounds is nothing new. We were dominated on the offensive boards at Temple.
That’s why Edwards needs more PT IMO. I know that he’s young but nobody else has the demeanor to attack the offensive glass.

Frazier has to become more offensive minded. I don’t care if he takes the ball to the basket and gets blocked or if he shoots 1-10 from the perimeter. He needs to get bumped around and develop an attitude.[/quote]

We got 17 offensive rebounds, which is the same amount we gave up at Temple!


#9
[quote="bdroc, post:4, topic:480"]Babb's intentional foul was the correct call. Reason is that he reached with both hands. A hard foul with one hand would not have been called intentional. [b] Lack of offensive rebounds is nothing new. We were dominated on the offensive boards at Temple.[/b] That's why Edwards needs more PT IMO. I know that he's young but nobody else has the demeanor to attack the offensive glass.

Frazier has to become more offensive minded. I don’t care if he takes the ball to the basket and gets blocked or if he shoots 1-10 from the perimeter. He needs to get bumped around and develop an attitude.[/quote]

We got 17 offensive rebounds, which is the same amount we gave up at Temple!

We got 15 offensive rebounds, according to espn, and Battle, Babb and Ott led with 3 each. Where are the starting bigs on rebounds?

Gottlieb said more than once that Frazier can’t go left, and was played by a player knowing that.


#10

When you loose by 2 there are probably 3 dozen plays that could have changed the outcome. I have long been a disbeliever of the staff not having changed Talor’s very unconventional, and largely unsuccessful, foul shooting form.
The bad news for us tonight is that he came into this game at over 80% on the season In his first two season, and his international play he had demonstrated that, that percentage is well above his norm. With his “hitch or foul shot flick form” Talor is, and will continue to be less than a 70% foul shooter. I really believe that, and tonight he migrated back toward his normal percentage. I love him dearly, but he is banging his head (sometimes I feel my head) against a wall in thinking that his foul shooting form will ever see his % on any 100 shots reach or approach 80% without reinventing his technique on foul shooting.
There is nothing fluid in his stroke from the line. It is apparent that our coaches won’t address the fact that his form needs to change Alas, neither will the percentage of his foul shots going in the basket.
Make no mistake that he is right up there with Joe C. as my all time favorite. I remember a game that we lost by a point and Joe had gone something like 11 of 12 from the line and he told the press to blame him for the loss because he missed a foul shot.

It was a good game against a good team with some good shooters and some athletic post players. We could have and should have won the game. Period.


#11

Pictures from the game at the link below, including a cowbell that looks familiar:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/acaben/sets/72157622989497788/show/


#12

Great pictures! Thanks


#13

[quote=“Duff, post:10, topic:480”]When you loose by 2 there are probably 3 dozen plays that could have changed the outcome. I have long been a disbeliever of the staff not having changed Talor’s very unconventional, and largely unsuccessful, foul shooting form.
The bad news for us tonight is that he came into this game at over 80% on the season In his first two season, and his international play he had demonstrated that, that percentage is well above his norm. With his “hitch or foul shot flick form” Talor is, and will continue to be less than a 70% foul shooter. I really believe that, and tonight he migrated back toward his normal percentage. I love him dearly, but he is banging his head (sometimes I feel my head) against a wall in thinking that his foul shooting form will ever see his % on any 100 shots reach or approach 80% without reinventing his technique on foul shooting.
There is nothing fluid in his stroke from the line. It is apparent that our coaches won’t address the fact that his form needs to change Alas, neither will the percentage of his foul shots going in the basket.
Make no mistake that he is right up there with Joe C. as my all time favorite. I remember a game that we lost by a point and Joe had gone something like 11 of 12 from the line and he told the press to blame him for the loss because he missed a foul shot.

It was a good game against a good team with some good shooters and some athletic post players. We could have and should have won the game. Period.[/quote]

Duff, first of all, last year he shot 70%, and I think he did the year before as well. His shot looks flat and jerky sometimes, but tonight was the first I saw it this season. But I have a solution. He should just shoot 3’s, never go into the paint, you know, like some of the other guys, and like them, never get to the line. That way, you can’t complain about his foul shooting. When DJ, Jones and Brooks combined reach the FTA’s he gets, then maybe the team will win, cause they’re better FT shooters. Problem is, they don’t get fouled, cause, unlike him, they’re not often trying to score in the paint. So, the solution is easy…get them in the paint, and soon, cause the 5’11" guy leading the team in FTA’s and rebounding(ridiculous) is going to get tired of carrying the team on his shoulders.


#14

I hope Taran is ready to step right in and play. We need a solid #2 scorer to help out Talor. If someone doesn’t step up inside we could be in big trouble the next 1 1/2 years. I focused on Andrew last night and he just looks lost on both ends of the court. Is doing way to much holding and reaching on D. On O he just puts his head down and goes. He has no idea where the help D is coming from and that’s why you see so many difficult shots from him or shots pinned/swatted off the backboard. What did Brooks do last night to sit basically the whole 2nd half? I’ve been thinking he’s been our most consistent “big” so far this year.


#15

Correct.


#16
[quote="bdroc, post:4, topic:480"]Babb's intentional foul was the correct call. Reason is that he reached with both hands. A hard foul with one hand would not have been called intentional. [b] Lack of offensive rebounds is nothing new. We were dominated on the offensive boards at Temple.[/b] That's why Edwards needs more PT IMO. I know that he's young but nobody else has the demeanor to attack the offensive glass.

Frazier has to become more offensive minded. I don’t care if he takes the ball to the basket and gets blocked or if he shoots 1-10 from the perimeter. He needs to get bumped around and develop an attitude.[/quote]

We got 17 offensive rebounds, which is the same amount we gave up at Temple!

We got 15 offensive rebounds, according to espn, and Battle, Babb and Ott led with 3 each. Where are the starting bigs on rebounds?

Gottlieb said more than once that Frazier can’t go left, and was played by a player knowing that.

As I did after the Temple game, I quoted the total offensive rebounds according to the official final stats. Either way, we did to VT what Temple did to us. If it was a failure by us in the Temple game, it must have been a success by us in the VT game. It was almost a perfect mirror, with us getting only 7 in the Temple game and VT getting only 8 against us. It wasn’t the guards that were banging with Allen. In many instances the rebounds went to the guy still standing.


#17
[quote="bdroc, post:4, topic:480"]Babb's intentional foul was the correct call. Reason is that he reached with both hands. A hard foul with one hand would not have been called intentional. [b] Lack of offensive rebounds is nothing new. We were dominated on the offensive boards at Temple.[/b] That's why Edwards needs more PT IMO. I know that he's young but nobody else has the demeanor to attack the offensive glass.

Frazier has to become more offensive minded. I don’t care if he takes the ball to the basket and gets blocked or if he shoots 1-10 from the perimeter. He needs to get bumped around and develop an attitude.[/quote]

We got 17 offensive rebounds, which is the same amount we gave up at Temple!

We got 15 offensive rebounds, according to espn, and Battle, Babb and Ott led with 3 each. Where are the starting bigs on rebounds?

Gottlieb said more than once that Frazier can’t go left, and was played by a player knowing that.

As I did after the Temple game, I quoted the total offensive rebounds according to the official final stats. Either way, we did to VT what Temple did to us. If it was a failure by us in the Temple game, it must have been a success by us in the VT game. It was almost a perfect mirror, with us getting only 7 in the Temple game and VT getting only 8 against us. It wasn’t the guards that were banging with Allen. In many instances the rebounds went to the guy still standing.

I like your point but I just don’t care for the way you are going about making it.

The correct way to measure rebounding is not to compare raw numbers but to look at rebounding percentage.

If you want to measure offensive rebounding, look at the percentage of boards that were grabbed off of your offensive glass - if it’s better than 1/3, you rebounded better than average. On defense, your percentage needs to be above 2/3.

In the Temple game, we grabbed 7 of the 25 boards off of our glass. That’s 25% and is not good.
On defense, we grabbed 27 out of 44 boards. That’s 61% and also is not good.

In the Va Tech game, we grabbed 17 out of 47 boards off of our glass. That’s 36% and is good rebounding.
On defense, we grabbed 24 out of 32 boards. That’s 75% and is very good.

So you are correct in that we rebounded against Va Tech much like Temple did against us. Rebounding didn’t cost us the game, shooting did - both from the field, and from the foul line.

Against Temple, our lack of rebounding and our turnovers let the Owls get off 17 more shots than we did and thus win the the game despite shooting worse than us.

Against Va Tech, our rebounding and our ability to protect the ball let us get off 10 more shots than they did. However, our poor shooting didn’t let us take advantage of those extra shots.


#18

On Taran, he’ll start, IMO. I wasn’t sure, but now I am. He can do things other guys can’t. He can go left or right, pull up like Stanley, finish stronger at the hole than any guard we have, including Talor. He’s not the 3 machine Talor is. Like Talor, he keeps coming at you and doesn’t get tight in key situations. I see him going to the hole to score rather than chucking a 3 when 1 or 2 points are needed. He’ll get tons of FTA’s, though converting them hasn’t been his strongest suit either.

On Brooks, I suggest you look at the stat sheets. 22 minutes, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 2 TO’s, 1 basket, an alley oop fed to him. VT didn’t have a single player taller than him. Allen is 6’7". I think you can judge an opponent’s style/toughness somewhat by the amount of their tattoos. VT was loaded with them, and was a very physical team. I think some guys backed down. You do this by playing away from the basket and not mixing it up.

Points in the paint were 32 to 26 in VT’s favor, but many of PSU’s were by Talor, e.g., the offensive putback, the dunk, the left handed layup, etc., and the fast break by Frazier, so it’s really more lopsided than that. Those aren’t what I’d really consider points in the paint. What you’re trying to find out by charting the stat is how bigs control the paint, and once again, that didn’t happen for PSU. Gottlieb was talking about it all night.

Lar, once again, you get lost in the stats. Our bigs play small, and that’s a big problem. And other than Talor, the other guards don’t often go to the hole. It leads to poor shots. Does anybody else drive, you know, put the ball on the floor and try to beat their man to the basket? Edwards, sometimes, but anybody else? The FT shooting by Battle was awful, but you’re blaming the loss on him in a sneaky way, as he was the only poor FT shooter. Rebounding is always a problem when your shortest guy is getting the most. Chuck and duck is the norm on this team.


#19

On the intentional foul: I don’t blame the refs for calling it, because in full speed, it clearly looked like a flagrant. But watching the replay, Babb tried to hold Delaney and slow him down, not hack him hard. That’s one where the play looked a lot worse than the action.

And as for Talor missing the last shot: it happens. I was actually joking with a friend if he left, I’d rather have him miss than have VTech foul him, because what would be more painful than watching him hit the first then miss the second with no time left? But if he’d made that lay-up, it would’ve been almost a carbon copy of how he beat Illinois last year. Same drive, same move, same spot on the floor…but no such luck last night.


#20
[quote="bdroc, post:4, topic:480"]Babb's intentional foul was the correct call. Reason is that he reached with both hands. A hard foul with one hand would not have been called intentional. [b] Lack of offensive rebounds is nothing new. We were dominated on the offensive boards at Temple.[/b] That's why Edwards needs more PT IMO. I know that he's young but nobody else has the demeanor to attack the offensive glass.

Frazier has to become more offensive minded. I don’t care if he takes the ball to the basket and gets blocked or if he shoots 1-10 from the perimeter. He needs to get bumped around and develop an attitude.[/quote]

We got 17 offensive rebounds, which is the same amount we gave up at Temple!

We got 15 offensive rebounds, according to espn, and Battle, Babb and Ott led with 3 each. Where are the starting bigs on rebounds?

Gottlieb said more than once that Frazier can’t go left, and was played by a player knowing that.

As I did after the Temple game, I quoted the total offensive rebounds according to the official final stats. Either way, we did to VT what Temple did to us. If it was a failure by us in the Temple game, it must have been a success by us in the VT game. It was almost a perfect mirror, with us getting only 7 in the Temple game and VT getting only 8 against us. It wasn’t the guards that were banging with Allen. In many instances the rebounds went to the guy still standing.

I like your point but I just don’t care for the way you are going about making it.

The correct way to measure rebounding is not to compare raw numbers but to look at rebounding percentage.

If you want to measure offensive rebounding, look at the percentage of boards that were grabbed off of your offensive glass - if it’s better than 1/3, you rebounded better than average. On defense, your percentage needs to be above 2/3.

In the Temple game, we grabbed 7 of the 25 boards off of our glass. That’s 25% and is not good.
On defense, we grabbed 27 out of 44 boards. That’s 61% and also is not good.

In the Va Tech game, we grabbed 17 out of 47 boards off of our glass. That’s 36% and is good rebounding.
On defense, we grabbed 24 out of 32 boards. That’s 75% and is very good.

So you are correct in that we rebounded against Va Tech much like Temple did against us. Rebounding didn’t cost us the game, shooting did - both from the field, and from the foul line.

Against Temple, our lack of rebounding and our turnovers let the Owls get off 17 more shots than we did and thus win the the game despite shooting worse than us.

Against Va Tech, our rebounding and our ability to protect the ball let us get off 10 more shots than they did. However, our poor shooting didn’t let us take advantage of those extra shots.

Eloquently put. However, just how many more games will the cry be afterwards that the team could not shoot? ???