UM Post Game


#1

If you’re a Scout subscriber, there are some interesting stream of consciousness quotes from Beilein on the game. Opening quote from presser.

So as you can see, Penn State, who has proven that they’ve had trouble winning, but they know how to play.

#2

I like these comments from Beilein about Frazier. Those two guards in together create issues for defenses. If they put their quickest guy on Battle, then Frazier comes in, who covers him, the second quickest guy? As UM’s guards are all 6’4"+, they’re not that quick. As he mentions in the article that we’re bigger, these are two big edges we have: quicker at guard, bigger up front. Soooo, we should fast break when possible, and dump it inside in the halfcourt. Somebody like UM should do almost the opposite, don’t fast break, and take a lot of 3’s, though they do have Sims.

[i]Question: Penn State scored a lot of points in the paint and after the defense has been improving and improving is that frustrating to see?

Coach Beilein: “A lot of the points in the paint would be dribble drives. I do not think they ever threw it in and ever got it in to a big guy. I thought (Tim) Frazier made a huge difference in the first half, but it is tough to just stay in front of Battle, so what happens when people have to help on Battle, then you have to rotate from the backside. He’s not just a quick guy, he see’s everything on the floor. He’s a terrific player. I’ve seen a lot of good point guards, a lot of good guys. He’s one of the best.”

Question: It seemed like your defense struggled with Battle’s speed?

Coach Beilein: “Yeah and when Frazier went in there, we were up and they came right back.[/i]

The OSU game should be interesting. Once again, our edges are the same. OSU is overall bigger, so don’t get into a perimeter game. That’s what they defend best. Run when possible and dump it inside in the halfcourt is the formula for victory. And keep Frazier out there.

The way Beilein praises Battle, I wonder if he thinks he’s as good as Lucas, Scottie R. or Jonny Flynn. :wink:


#3

[quote=“kidcoyote, post:2, topic:873”]The OSU game should be interesting. Once again, our edges are the same. OSU is overall bigger, so don’t get into a perimeter game. That’s what they defend best. Run when possible and dump it inside in the halfcourt is the formula for victory. And keep Frazier out there.[/quote] Prob with OSU is we have nobody capable of even slowing down Turner. Also I have a gut feeling Deibler wont’ be as cold from the outside this time around. Think he hit 4 or so yesterday against Sparty. Add in the fact that they are one of the teams we struggle with on the norm. I do hope that I’m wrong ;D


#4

[quote=“think1, post:1, topic:873”]If you’re a Scout subscriber, there are some interesting stream of consciousness quotes from Beilein on the game. Opening quote from presser.

FYI, you don’t have to be a Scout subscriber to read it. In any case, Think1, you are totally right - that entire opening statement by Beilein is completely unintelligible:

Maybe the reason Michigan struggles is because they don’t understand what the heck their coach is trying to tell them? Like maybe during the game he tried to say - “you guys aren’t hitting squat from behind the 3-point line, so throw it into Sims for Chrissake!”. But it came out more like - “you guys should squat behind the 3-point line, and for Chrissake, don’t throw it in to Sims!”.


#5

I am proud that this team didn’t give up. They haven’t stopped playing hard when they could have mailed it in. Ed and the staff get credit for that.

As bad as 0-12 was we all knew this team was better.

It’s a shame that things couldn’t have worked out well this season but I have no problem supporting a group that has character. We can win a few more and turn this nightmare season into something positive for the future.


#6
[quote="kidcoyote, post:2, topic:873"]The OSU game should be interesting. Once again, our edges are the same. OSU is overall bigger, so don't get into a perimeter game. That's what they defend best. Run when possible and dump it inside in the halfcourt is the formula for victory. And keep Frazier out there.[/quote] Prob with OSU is we have nobody capable of even slowing down Turner. Also I have a gut feeling Deibler wont' be as cold from the outside this time around. Think he hit 4 or so yesterday against Sparty. Add in the fact that they are one of the teams we struggle with on the norm. I do hope that I'm wrong ;D

Who can slow down Turner? He’s a top 5 pick in the NBA draft right now. I heard Jackson was pretty upset with himself for not doing a better job last time. Didn’t see the game, but did Jackson really guard the other team’s PG? Guess they are the same height.


#7
[quote="kidcoyote, post:2, topic:873"]The OSU game should be interesting. Once again, our edges are the same. OSU is overall bigger, so don't get into a perimeter game. That's what they defend best. Run when possible and dump it inside in the halfcourt is the formula for victory. And keep Frazier out there.[/quote] Prob with OSU is we have nobody capable of even slowing down Turner. Also I have a gut feeling Deibler wont' be as cold from the outside this time around. Think he hit 4 or so yesterday against Sparty. Add in the fact that they are one of the teams we struggle with on the norm. I do hope that I'm wrong ;D

Who can slow down Turner? He’s a top 5 pick in the NBA draft right now. I heard Jackson was pretty upset with himself for not doing a better job last time. Didn’t see the game, but did Jackson really guard the other team’s PG? Guess they are the same height.

It’s kind of like Wisky. For whatever reason we just never match up well with the Buckeyes and seem to lose almost every time out.

#8

Yes DJ was on Turner a lot.

If we just could have gotten two or three more wins in conference, we would be middle of the pack right know in the conf and definitely NIT bound. As it stands right now we basically have to win out to the conference final to get back to .500.


#9

OSU is typically a pretty athletic team, and that is the type of team that gives PSU trouble (along with a very disciplined team that has an inside game like WIscy). It is no coincidence that that the two teams that PSU beat are the two worst inside BBall teams in the league (Michigan has Sims but that is all) and essentially win and lose on how they shoot the three ball. Michigan was 0-8 from three in the second half before they hit one. If Michigan just hits 2-8, which is still not that good, the game is an entirely different story.

PSU is playing better BBall, but the two teams that they beat are also teams that PSU matches up well with. If PSU wants to hang with OSU, Babb has to hit shots, Frazier needs to be able to create some shots for other people, and OSU needs to have a below average 3 point shooting night. PSU is not going to stop Turner as they don’t have that defensive stopper (Ivory where are you), they just have to make sure that Lauderdale and Deibler don’t beat them with wide open 3’s or easy putbacks.


#10
[quote="kidcoyote, post:2, topic:873"]The OSU game should be interesting. Once again, our edges are the same. OSU is overall bigger, so don't get into a perimeter game. That's what they defend best. Run when possible and dump it inside in the halfcourt is the formula for victory. And keep Frazier out there.[/quote] Prob with OSU is we have nobody capable of even slowing down Turner. Also I have a gut feeling Deibler wont' be as cold from the outside this time around. Think he hit 4 or so yesterday against Sparty. Add in the fact that they are one of the teams we struggle with on the norm. I do hope that I'm wrong ;D

Who can slow down Turner? He’s a top 5 pick in the NBA draft right now. I heard Jackson was pretty upset with himself for not doing a better job last time. Didn’t see the game, but did Jackson really guard the other team’s PG? Guess they are the same height.

Well, Turner doesn’t shoot from the outside much. Near the bottom in 3’s, with less than DeShawn Sims. Great handle for a guy his size. Maybe put Frazier on him. He’ll hurt us inside, but maybe Frazier can bother him when he’s dribbling. Turner can sure penetrate and finish, dish and rebound. It’ll be tough. A zone, 2-1-2, 1-3-1, might work to cut down his dribble/drive. Of course, if he kicks to the corner, Diebler could kill us, but it’s worth a try. The 1-3-1 can really cut down on the dribble/drive, which really looks to be Turner’s best game.


#11

Turner has a great mid range game and can post up well. I think Tim’s a good perimeter defender but he would give up too much size if guarded Turner.

I’m thinking DJ, Babb, and…Brooks. :o


#12
The way Beilein praises Battle, I wonder if he thinks he's as good as Lucas, Scottie R. or Jonny Flynn. Wink

Doesn’t really matter what he thinks since he’s not in charge of drafting players in the NBA.


#13

Doesn’t really matter what he thinks since he’s not in charge of drafting players in the NBA.[/quote]

While true, what to use, draftexpress? They had Curry late first round, and now they have Lucas and Collins 25th and 26th, and no DeShawn Sims. Bet you Sims goes first round. DeJuan Blair went second round, and he’s doing fine. I’ll stick with Beilein. You stick with draftexpress. Curry will probably be 3rd in ROY voting, not 22nd, where they had him.


#14

It’s only 2 more shots, but its a 25% increase in shooting (0 to 25 percent), which is pretty significant. If the stats were 5-13 (27%) and 7-13 (35%) the 2 shot increase wouldn’t mean as much since its only 8%.

Maybe I just interpreted your post wrong? Sure the game would be 6 points different, but you’re also asking for a 25% increase in 3PT shooting, of course the game is a different story.


#15
[quote="Cletus11, post:9, topic:873"]OSU is typically a pretty athletic team, and that is the type of team that gives PSU trouble (along with a very disciplined team that has an inside game like WIscy). It is no coincidence that that the two teams that PSU beat are the two worst inside BBall teams in the league (Michigan has Sims but that is all) and essentially win and lose on how they shoot the three ball. Michigan was 0-8 from three in the second half before they hit one. [b] If Michigan just hits 2-8, which is still not that good, the game is an entirely different story.[/b][/quote] It's only 2 more shots, but its a 25% increase in shooting (0 to 25 percent), which is pretty significant. If the stats were 5-13 (27%) and 7-13 (35%) the 2 shot increase wouldn't mean as much since its only 8%.

Maybe I just interpreted your post wrong? Sure the game would be 6 points different, but you’re also asking for a 25% increase in 3PT shooting, of course the game is a different story.

What I am saying is that Michigan stunk from the 3 point line in the second half and most of their looks were good open looks. Michigan just hits a couple of those shots (which still puts them below their season average) and instead of PSU being up six, the game is tie with 10 minutes left and I am not as confidence that PSU holds on. A win is a win is a win, but how much of this was Michigan losing vs. PSU winning if you understand what I am saying. Obviously the difference in PSU winning probably 3 or 4 more game this year is the difference between PSU making a couple of shots and the opposing team missing a couple, I am just cautious that PSU is making strides, but still some large issues out there that Michigan and NW could just not capitalize on. PSU beats the likes of Wiscy/Purdue/OSU/Mich State or even Illinois, then we can talk about a team that is really showing some marked improvement.


#16

Sure. But Michigan’s game plan is clearly to chuck and duck. They live and die by the 3. They can lose to anyone BC (9-34, 26%), Alabama (6-25, 24%), Utah (7-22, 31%) or shoot 32% and 37% against UConn and OSU, respectively, and win. Seems like a faulty and/or risky gameplan if you ask me. Its not like the PSU game (21%) was a once a season thing.


#17

[quote=“Cletus11, post:9, topic:873”]OSU is typically a pretty athletic team, and that is the type of team that gives PSU trouble (along with a very disciplined team that has an inside game like WIscy). It is no coincidence that that the two teams that PSU beat are the two worst inside BBall teams in the league (Michigan has Sims but that is all) and essentially win and lose on how they shoot the three ball. Michigan was 0-8 from three in the second half before they hit one. If Michigan just hits 2-8, which is still not that good, the game is an entirely different story.

PSU is playing better BBall, but the two teams that they beat are also teams that PSU matches up well with. If PSU wants to hang with OSU, Babb has to hit shots, Frazier needs to be able to create some shots for other people, and OSU needs to have a below average 3 point shooting night. PSU is not going to stop Turner as they don’t have that defensive stopper (Ivory where are you), they just have to make sure that Lauderdale and Deibler don’t beat them with wide open 3’s or easy putbacks.[/quote]

IMO, yes, OSU is more athletic than NW and UM, but they’re not that big up front, and with Frazier in, we’re clearly quicker in the backcourt. While Turner had 27 and 10rbs, Battle, who he was covering, had 24 and 9rbs. If you remember the game, Battle easily got by Turner in the halfcourt. Why was he covering Talor? Probably cause he was the quickest defender. Well, then, put in Frazier as well. Who can stay with him if their quickest guy can’t stay with Talor? Then dump it inside. Like UM, OSU goes 4 guards and forward. Yes, Turner is a big guard, but PSU’s front line is bigger. We go 6’10", 6’8", 6’7". They go(if you include Turner) 6’8", 6’7", 6’5" (Diebler is 6’6", but Lighty’s the G/F). So, seems to be somewhat similar to Michigan. Big guards, not as quick as us, and not big inside. Minny beat them in Turner’s second game back, where he had 19 points. And JaJuan Johnson beat them up in recent game.

IMO, we’re quicker than most Big 10 teams and also bigger inside than most. So why 0-12 before winning? IMO, we didn’t get it inside, and tried to play the halfcourt as just a perimeter team with some Talor drives. Playing perimeter offense vs. teams that play 4 big, slowish guards is dumb. That’s what they can defend best. On D to stop Turner, his game is dribble penetration. Zone D would best defend that, and keep Frazier and Battle upfront(in 2-1-2), which is better for breaks. Look how close we’ve been in losses. Well, small adjustments can make the difference. It’s called coaching.


#18
[quote="Cletus11, post:9, topic:873"]OSU is typically a pretty athletic team, and that is the type of team that gives PSU trouble (along with a very disciplined team that has an inside game like WIscy). It is no coincidence that that the two teams that PSU beat are the two worst inside BBall teams in the league (Michigan has Sims but that is all) and essentially win and lose on how they shoot the three ball. Michigan was 0-8 from three in the second half before they hit one. If Michigan just hits 2-8, which is still not that good, the game is an entirely different story.

PSU is playing better BBall, but the two teams that they beat are also teams that PSU matches up well with. If PSU wants to hang with OSU, Babb has to hit shots, Frazier needs to be able to create some shots for other people, and OSU needs to have a below average 3 point shooting night. PSU is not going to stop Turner as they don’t have that defensive stopper (Ivory where are you), they just have to make sure that Lauderdale and Deibler don’t beat them with wide open 3’s or easy putbacks.[/quote]

So why 0-12 before winning? IMO, we didn’t get it inside, and tried to play the halfcourt as just a perimeter team with some Talor drives. Playing perimeter offense vs. teams that play 4 big, slowish guards is dumb.

Because we are one of the least talented teams in the big 10. It’s not hard to figure out when you look at each roster in the big ten.

#19
[quote="Cletus11, post:9, topic:873"]OSU is typically a pretty athletic team, and that is the type of team that gives PSU trouble (along with a very disciplined team that has an inside game like WIscy). It is no coincidence that that the two teams that PSU beat are the two worst inside BBall teams in the league (Michigan has Sims but that is all) and essentially win and lose on how they shoot the three ball. Michigan was 0-8 from three in the second half before they hit one. If Michigan just hits 2-8, which is still not that good, the game is an entirely different story.

PSU is playing better BBall, but the two teams that they beat are also teams that PSU matches up well with. If PSU wants to hang with OSU, Babb has to hit shots, Frazier needs to be able to create some shots for other people, and OSU needs to have a below average 3 point shooting night. PSU is not going to stop Turner as they don’t have that defensive stopper (Ivory where are you), they just have to make sure that Lauderdale and Deibler don’t beat them with wide open 3’s or easy putbacks.[/quote]

IMO, yes, OSU is more athletic than NW and UM, but they’re not that big up front, and with Frazier in, we’re clearly quicker in the backcourt. While Turner had 27 and 10rbs, Battle, who he was covering, had 24 and 9rbs. If you remember the game, Battle easily got by Turner in the halfcourt. Why was he covering Talor? Probably cause he was the quickest defender. Well, then, put in Frazier as well. Who can stay with him if their quickest guy can’t stay with Talor? Then dump it inside. Like UM, OSU goes 4 guards and forward. Yes, Turner is a big guard, but PSU’s front line is bigger. We go 6’10", 6’8", 6’7". They go(if you include Turner) 6’8", 6’7", 6’5" (Diebler is 6’6", but Lighty’s the G/F). So, seems to be somewhat similar to Michigan. Big guards, not as quick as us, and not big inside. Minny beat them in Turner’s second game back, where he had 19 points. And JaJuan Johnson beat them up in recent game.

IMO, we’re quicker than most Big 10 teams and also bigger inside than most. So why 0-12 before winning? IMO, we didn’t get it inside, and tried to play the halfcourt as just a perimeter team with some Talor drives. Playing perimeter offense vs. teams that play 4 big, slowish guards is dumb. That’s what they can defend best. On D to stop Turner, his game is dribble penetration. Zone D would best defend that, and keep Frazier and Battle upfront(in 2-1-2), which is better for breaks. Look how close we’ve been in losses. Well, small adjustments can make the difference. It’s called coaching.


The only problem with the emphasis on our close losses, could have, would have, should have is that Nortwestern would probably be battling for 4th place if their close losses and blown leads counted. When we start talking about what might have been, every B10 team except Indiana and Iowa could join that conversation. Let’s base everything on our total record at the end of this season.

#20

If “Ifs and Buts” were berries and nuts…everyday would be Xmas.

The "ifs, buts and close game stuff works for all 11 teams in the league.