PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Tied for fourth in the Big Ten

[quote="tjb, post:15, topic:1857"]I see that it is hardening into legend (and soon "fact") that that was a bad call at Purdue. That's certainly the way I saw it on the replay I saw during the game, but I thought Lar looked at it less passionately from a couple different views and thought it could go either way. Just pointing that out.[/quote]

I sometimes think Lar just likes being Mr. Sensible about everything - he’ll go the extra step in the other direction to make sure he’s not even appearing to be a homer. I can’t see him ever coming out and saying a call was blown if there’s even a slight bit of doubt from the other team’s point of view - but this is a no-question blown call.

I think it’s our duty as fans to make sure this becomes a well-known thing around the country, just in case it gets a little bit close in the selection room when the time comes.

I didn’t think it was nearly the injustice that some have made it out to be. It was a bang-bang call that went against us. After seeing the slow-mo replay, I certainly think it was the wrong call. However there is no reason that the referee should have any action taken, as he was in good position and called what he saw. You’ll get a dozen of those types of calls every game. It was two guys fighting for the ball and the ball squirting out of bounds. Really tough break, but hardly something that we need to start a campaign about.

[quote="tjb, post:15, topic:1857"]I see that it is hardening into legend (and soon "fact") that that was a bad call at Purdue. That's certainly the way I saw it on the replay I saw during the game, but I thought Lar looked at it less passionately from a couple different views and thought it could go either way. Just pointing that out.[/quote]

I sometimes think Lar just likes being Mr. Sensible about everything - he’ll go the extra step in the other direction to make sure he’s not even appearing to be a homer. I can’t see him ever coming out and saying a call was blown if there’s even a slight bit of doubt from the other team’s point of view - but this is a no-question blown call.

I think it’s our duty as fans to make sure this becomes a well-known thing around the country, just in case it gets a little bit close in the selection room when the time comes.

I didn’t think it was nearly the injustice that some have made it out to be. It was a bang-bang call that went against us. After seeing the slow-mo replay, I certainly think it was the wrong call. However there is no reason that the referee should have any action taken, as he was in good position and called what he saw. You’ll get a dozen of those types of calls every game. It was two guys fighting for the ball and the ball squirting out of bounds. Really tough break, but hardly something that we need to start a campaign about.

It was the deciding play in the entire game. It came after a segment in which we had the lead and played great defense, forced them into a turnover that would have sealed the game.

Yes, let’s of plays wind up deciding the game… but we came out ahead after all those plays in that particular game and then had it stolen from us on a very bad, obvious call. That’s a little different than what you’re describing, and if we sit at 9-9 in the big10 come selection sunday, in need of one more win (a road win, over a league leader mind you)… that single blown call is going to be able to keep us out of the tournament. If nobody outside of PSU knows about it, you don’t think that’s a bit of a failure on the part of the fans who know what happened?

And while you guys are joking about this, it’s really not THAT hard to make something like this go viral in the bball community and get national attention. We’re not asking for people to do anything, just making them aware of it.

edit: the biggest issue now is that we didn’t act quickly enough after it happened, and probably lost the chance to really make a splash with it.

So I guess I’ll just pipe down about it now since it’s not a big deal. ::slight_smile:

[quote=“Craftsy21, post:22, topic:1857”]It was the deciding play in the entire game. It came after a segment in which we had the lead and played great defense, forced them into a turnover that would have sealed the game.

Yes, let’s of plays wind up deciding the game… but we came out ahead after all those plays in that particular game and then had it stolen from us on a very bad, obvious call. That’s a little different than what you’re describing, and if we sit at 9-9 in the big10 come selection sunday, in need of one more win (a road win, over a league leader mind you)… that single blown call is going to be able to keep us out of the tournament. If nobody outside of PSU knows about it, you don’t think that’s a bit of a failure on the part of the fans who know what happened?[/quote]

First off, even if that call goes our way, we don’t know what happens. Would it have increased our changes of winning? Of course. Would it have guaranteed the win? Absolutely not.

The game wasn’t “stolen” from us, and the call wasn’t a “very bad, obvious call”. It was a bang-bang call with two guys fighting for the ball. With the benefit of instant replay, we can see that it was a bad call, but I don’t think there is any “failure” in our fanbase if the 9 guys in the selection room don’t count this game as a win for PSU on Selection Sunday.

It’s not just you, but I swear I’ve never seen a fanbase that’s more paranoid about officiating. It’s like 95% of PSU fans think that we get screwed every single game (in every sport) by the officials.

It was the deciding play in the entire game. It came after a segment in which we had the lead and played great defense, forced them into a turnover that would have sealed the game.

Yes, let’s of plays wind up deciding the game… but we came out ahead after all those plays in that particular game and then had it stolen from us on a very bad, obvious call. That’s a little different than what you’re describing, and if we sit at 9-9 in the big10 come selection sunday, in need of one more win (a road win, over a league leader mind you)… that single blown call is going to be able to keep us out of the tournament. If nobody outside of PSU knows about it, you don’t think that’s a bit of a failure on the part of the fans who know what happened?

First off, even if that call goes our way, we don’t know what happens. Would it have increased our changes of winning? Of course. Would it have guaranteed the win? Absolutely not.

The game wasn’t “stolen” from us, and the call wasn’t a “very bad, obvious call”. It was a bang-bang call with two guys fighting for the ball. With the benefit of instant replay, we can see that it was a bad call, but I don’t think there is any “failure” in our fanbase if the 9 guys in the selection room don’t count this game as a win for PSU on Selection Sunday.

It’s not just you, but I swear I’ve never seen a fanbase that’s more paranoid about officiating. It’s like 95% of PSU fans think that we get screwed every single game (in every sport) by the officials.

I’m not asking them to count it as a win, but rather - a loss with an asterisk next to it.

There were 5 seconds left and we should have been given possession with the lead. Barring a miracle, the game was over and we had it won. It’s as good a guarantee as you can get at that point in the game. Don’t play devil’s advocate just for the hell of it, that cost us an opportunity that we earned - it was in the bag if that call is made correctly. Stranger things have happened, but that’s a 99/100 win rate. Don’t make excuses based on that 1% chance Purdue would have had at that point.

And the call was simple, and clear. Watch the body language of players on both teams as it’s happening. There was nothing bang-bang about it, it was clearly poked in a certain direction by a Purdue player, the only player on the court that could have made the ball go in the direction it did.

I thought it was a bad call because in all the basketball I’ve seen, the general rule of thumb is when one player has the ball in his hands and a second player knocks it out of bounds, you rarely see the ball rewarded to the second player’s team. It would’ve helped if Frazier had possession of the basketball, but I still thought the replay from the baseline camera clearly showed who deflected the ball out of bounds.

I’m of the belief that in college basketball (NBA is completely different story), if you play long enough, it all evens out. Hopefully Penn State will be on the other end of a “bang-bang” call down the stretch. Never thought Penn State would be sitting at 5-4 (that could easily be 6-3) at the halfway mark of conference play.

Exactly it. As a coach, we ask officials to just go by the physics of it. When player A is trying to bring in the ball away from out of bounds and player B comes in for the tip and the ball ends up out of bounds, the ball is supposed to go to player A’s team almost automatically. It was a bang-bang play though and I have seen calls like that missed more than they should.

I don’t dwell on a lot of calls and I don’t consider myself paranoid about officiating, but I have to admit I am a little paranoid of PSU ending up as team #69 or 70 come Selection Sunday and I’ll end up stewing over that stupid play.

Let’s hope the guys take care of business and make this a non-issue.

I think it's our duty as fans to make sure this becomes a well-known thing around the country, just in case it gets a little bit close in the selection room when the time comes.

Our visits since the Purdue game:

:slight_smile:


I think I am probably the bulk of those Texas visits.

Especially when we’ve got people stopping by from Kenya, the Ivory Coast, and Iraq.

But no one from Joonas Suotamo’s homeland ???

Gotta work on those folks in New Mexico, Wyoming and South Dakota

Especially when we’ve got people stopping by from Kenya, the Ivory Coast, and Iraq.

I’d guess those visits from Kenya and Ivory Coast have no interest in basketball.

I thought it was a bad call because in all the basketball I've seen, the general rule of thumb is when one player has the ball in his hands and a second player knocks it out of bounds, you rarely see the ball rewarded to the second player's team.

Exactly it. As a coach, we ask officials to just go by the physics of it. When player A is trying to bring in the ball away from out of bounds and player B comes in for the tip and the ball ends up out of bounds, the ball is supposed to go to player A’s team almost automatically. It was a bang-bang play though and I have seen calls like that missed more than they should.

That’s my point as well. I don’t care about instant replay.

There are some calls that are made according to the circumstance, period. For example, if a player has a ball dwon at his waist and the defender reaches in to slap it away, that player is called for a foul whether or not he got all ball. It doesn’t matter what HAPPENED, the play is called on the CIRCUMSTANCE.

I don’t care what the instatnt replay showed. I don’t care it there is a split second where one of the players touched it. If one player is trying to bring the ball in, and another is slapping it away, the call is ‘out on the slapping away player’. That’s just the way it’s called. What bothers me is that it was called the other way in this instance.

[quote="vslice02, post:26, topic:1857"]I thought it was a bad call because in all the basketball I've seen, the general rule of thumb is when one player has the ball in his hands and a second player knocks it out of bounds, you rarely see the ball rewarded to the second player's team.[/quote]

Exactly it. As a coach, we ask officials to just go by the physics of it. When player A is trying to bring in the ball away from out of bounds and player B comes in for the tip and the ball ends up out of bounds, the ball is supposed to go to player A’s team almost automatically. It was a bang-bang play though and I have seen calls like that missed more than they should.

That’s my point as well. I don’t care about instant replay.

There are some calls that are made according to the circumstance, period. For example, if a player has a ball dwon at his waist and the defender reaches in to slap it away, that player is called for a foul whether or not he got all ball. It doesn’t matter what HAPPENED, the play is called on the CIRCUMSTANCE.

I don’t care what the instatnt replay showed. I don’t care it there is a split second where one of the players touched it. If one player is trying to bring the ball in, and another is slapping it away, the call is ‘out on the slapping away player’. That’s just the way it’s called. What bothers me is that it was called the other way in this instance.


For those who still have the Wisconsin game on their DVR, try to explain the call at 2:50 left in the first half. Talor misses a shot. Two Badgers go up for the ball and it goes out of bounds off one of them. DJ was behind them and didn’t even reach for the ball. Ball awarded to Wisconsin. DJ in disbelief gives the ref a 'I never touched it" expression and extends his arms in a semi Jan Jagla pleading fashion. The ref comes in past DJ and emphatically points that it was off Jeff Brooks, who had been five feet away from the Wisky players. Brooks reaction was priceless. The ref was so demonstrative in making a call that he obviously had gotten wrong. It’s actually funny now that we won the game. Nothing funny about the Purdue call, cost us a W.
[quote="vslice02, post:26, topic:1857"]I thought it was a bad call because in all the basketball I've seen, the general rule of thumb is when one player has the ball in his hands and a second player knocks it out of bounds, you rarely see the ball rewarded to the second player's team.[/quote]

Exactly it. As a coach, we ask officials to just go by the physics of it. When player A is trying to bring in the ball away from out of bounds and player B comes in for the tip and the ball ends up out of bounds, the ball is supposed to go to player A’s team almost automatically. It was a bang-bang play though and I have seen calls like that missed more than they should.

That’s my point as well. I don’t care about instant replay.

There are some calls that are made according to the circumstance, period. For example, if a player has a ball dwon at his waist and the defender reaches in to slap it away, that player is called for a foul whether or not he got all ball. It doesn’t matter what HAPPENED, the play is called on the CIRCUMSTANCE.

I don’t care what the instatnt replay showed. I don’t care it there is a split second where one of the players touched it. If one player is trying to bring the ball in, and another is slapping it away, the call is ‘out on the slapping away player’. That’s just the way it’s called. What bothers me is that it was called the other way in this instance.


For those who still have the Wisconsin game on their DVR, try to explain the call at 2:50 left in the first half. Talor misses a shot. Two Badgers go up for the ball and it goes out of bounds off one of them. DJ was behind them and didn’t even reach for the ball. Ball awarded to Wisconsin. DJ in disbelief gives the ref a 'I never touched it" expression and extends his arms in a semi Jan Jagla pleading fashion. The ref comes in past DJ and emphatically points that it was off Jeff Brooks, who had been five feet away from the Wisky players. Brooks reaction was priceless. The ref was so demonstrative in making a call that he obviously had gotten wrong. It’s actually funny now that we won the game. Nothing funny about the Purdue call, cost us a W.

That happened right in front of me. I figured I must have blinked or something, because I didn’t see any of our player near being in position to have touched it.

[quote="vslice02, post:26, topic:1857"]I thought it was a bad call because in all the basketball I've seen, the general rule of thumb is when one player has the ball in his hands and a second player knocks it out of bounds, you rarely see the ball rewarded to the second player's team.[/quote]

Exactly it. As a coach, we ask officials to just go by the physics of it. When player A is trying to bring in the ball away from out of bounds and player B comes in for the tip and the ball ends up out of bounds, the ball is supposed to go to player A’s team almost automatically. It was a bang-bang play though and I have seen calls like that missed more than they should.

That’s my point as well. I don’t care about instant replay.

There are some calls that are made according to the circumstance, period. For example, if a player has a ball dwon at his waist and the defender reaches in to slap it away, that player is called for a foul whether or not he got all ball. It doesn’t matter what HAPPENED, the play is called on the CIRCUMSTANCE.

I don’t care what the instatnt replay showed. I don’t care it there is a split second where one of the players touched it. If one player is trying to bring the ball in, and another is slapping it away, the call is ‘out on the slapping away player’. That’s just the way it’s called. What bothers me is that it was called the other way in this instance.


For those who still have the Wisconsin game on their DVR, try to explain the call at 2:50 left in the first half. Talor misses a shot. Two Badgers go up for the ball and it goes out of bounds off one of them. DJ was behind them and didn’t even reach for the ball. Ball awarded to Wisconsin. DJ in disbelief gives the ref a 'I never touched it" expression and extends his arms in a semi Jan Jagla pleading fashion. The ref comes in past DJ and emphatically points that it was off Jeff Brooks, who had been five feet away from the Wisky players. Brooks reaction was priceless. The ref was so demonstrative in making a call that he obviously had gotten wrong. It’s actually funny now that we won the game. Nothing funny about the Purdue call, cost us a W.

That happened right in front of me. I figured I must have blinked or something, because I didn’t see any of our player near being in position to have touched it.

I think the ref is the one that blinked.

Can one of you check to see if DJ might have gotten away with pushing one of those Wisc players? Sometimes the ref will just give the team the ball in that situation rather than stopping the game with a foul. That might explain the call.

[quote="vslice02, post:26, topic:1857"]I thought it was a bad call because in all the basketball I've seen, the general rule of thumb is when one player has the ball in his hands and a second player knocks it out of bounds, you rarely see the ball rewarded to the second player's team.[/quote]

Exactly it. As a coach, we ask officials to just go by the physics of it. When player A is trying to bring in the ball away from out of bounds and player B comes in for the tip and the ball ends up out of bounds, the ball is supposed to go to player A’s team almost automatically. It was a bang-bang play though and I have seen calls like that missed more than they should.

I don’t dwell on a lot of calls and I don’t consider myself paranoid about officiating, but I have to admit I am a little paranoid of PSU ending up as team #69 or 70 come Selection Sunday and I’ll end up stewing over that stupid play.

Let’s hope the guys take care of business and make this a non-issue.

That’s the whole point of my argument that the play isn’t as clear cut as everyone is making it out to be. Frazier NEVER had the ball under control in his hands. It bounded off of his arm and he was reaching for it when it went out of bounds. In my mind, it wasn’t conclusive whether Moore touched the ball or Frazier simply failed to haul it in as he grabbed for it.

Just watched it again…Totally missed call…DJ didn’t push, didn’t even have his hands up. Then the ref points to Brooks to motion that he tipped it out, though his arms would need to be about seven feet long to do so.

The funniest thing…both Nittany Lions closest to the play are black and the two Wisconsin players who had position are white and the ball clearly was knocked out by a white arm with no black arm in the neighborhood. At least with the Frazier/Moore play, the skin tone could get a little confusing on a bang-bang play I guess. Had the Wisconsin call happened with :05 remaining in a one-point game, there would be some serious explaining to do by the clown wearing the stripes.

Then again, maybe the ref was just judging by the content of the Wisconsin player’s character instead of the color of his skin. ;D OK, I’m done now…lock me up.

[quote="vslice02, post:26, topic:1857"]I thought it was a bad call because in all the basketball I've seen, the general rule of thumb is when one player has the ball in his hands and a second player knocks it out of bounds, you rarely see the ball rewarded to the second player's team.[/quote]

Exactly it. As a coach, we ask officials to just go by the physics of it. When player A is trying to bring in the ball away from out of bounds and player B comes in for the tip and the ball ends up out of bounds, the ball is supposed to go to player A’s team almost automatically. It was a bang-bang play though and I have seen calls like that missed more than they should.

I don’t dwell on a lot of calls and I don’t consider myself paranoid about officiating, but I have to admit I am a little paranoid of PSU ending up as team #69 or 70 come Selection Sunday and I’ll end up stewing over that stupid play.

Let’s hope the guys take care of business and make this a non-issue.

That’s the whole point of my argument that the play isn’t as clear cut as everyone is making it out to be. Frazier NEVER had the ball under control in his hands. It bounded off of his arm and he was reaching for it when it went out of bounds. In my mind, it wasn’t conclusive whether Moore touched the ball or Frazier simply failed to haul it in as he grabbed for it.

Still going to disagree - this was like play that happened several years ago that everybody debated endlessly. Frazier’s hands are moving back towards his body, whether he controls the ball or not he is moving the ball towards himself because that’s the direction he’s using his arms to do so… Meanwhile Moore’s arms are outstretched in a poking motion, which just so happens to be in the same exact direction that the ball was directed out of bounds - the complete opposite way that Frazier was going to be moving the ball, the exact direction Moore was going to be.

If you’re telling me that the ref caught some tiny little deflection that caused no change in the ball’s movement from the way Moore poked it, I’m going to tell you that you’re full of it. This was a simple call, and you’re just being difficult about it because that’s what you do. If the ball were awarded to PSU you wouldn’t even be thinking twice about the call because it was that clear-cut, you only second guess it whatsoever because the call was wrong and for some reason you refuse to blame the referee for this.

[quote="vslice02, post:26, topic:1857"]I thought it was a bad call because in all the basketball I've seen, the general rule of thumb is when one player has the ball in his hands and a second player knocks it out of bounds, you rarely see the ball rewarded to the second player's team.[/quote]

Exactly it. As a coach, we ask officials to just go by the physics of it. When player A is trying to bring in the ball away from out of bounds and player B comes in for the tip and the ball ends up out of bounds, the ball is supposed to go to player A’s team almost automatically. It was a bang-bang play though and I have seen calls like that missed more than they should.

I don’t dwell on a lot of calls and I don’t consider myself paranoid about officiating, but I have to admit I am a little paranoid of PSU ending up as team #69 or 70 come Selection Sunday and I’ll end up stewing over that stupid play.

Let’s hope the guys take care of business and make this a non-issue.

That’s the whole point of my argument that the play isn’t as clear cut as everyone is making it out to be. Frazier NEVER had the ball under control in his hands. It bounded off of his arm and he was reaching for it when it went out of bounds. In my mind, it wasn’t conclusive whether Moore touched the ball or Frazier simply failed to haul it in as he grabbed for it.

Still going to disagree - this was like play that happened several years ago that everybody debated endlessly. Frazier’s hands are moving back towards his body, whether he controls the ball or not he is moving the ball towards himself because that’s the direction he’s using his arms to do so… Meanwhile Moore’s arms are outstretched in a poking motion, which just so happens to be in the same exact direction that the ball was directed out of bounds - the complete opposite way that Frazier was going to be moving the ball, the exact direction Moore was going to be.

If you’re telling me that the ref caught some tiny little deflection that caused no change in the ball’s movement from the way Moore poked it, I’m going to tell you that you’re full of it. This was a simple call, and you’re just being difficult about it because that’s what you do. If the ball were awarded to PSU you wouldn’t even be thinking twice about the call because it was that clear-cut, you only second guess it whatsoever because the call was wrong and for some reason you refuse to blame the referee for this.

I pretty much agree with you Craftsy that it was pretty darn clear cut. The problem is that, unless the so-called “neutral” media immediately pick up on a play like that and highlight it, it just sounds like sour grapes if we complain about it.

We need to just let it go.