PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Thoughts and questions on OSU

Didn’t get to see the game and only listened to a little - brought my wife home from the hospital after shoulder surgery last night.

Here are some thoughts and questions on OSU.

  1. It sure seems to me that after Diebler hit three or four three pointers, we should have never let him get an open shot again. I guess we were doubling down on Sullinger. OK - I understand that. But if Sullinger hits 10 shots, it’s 20 points; if Diebler hits ten shots, it’s 30 points. We’ve seemed to have had troubling defending three point shooters all season.

  2. I wonder if Chris Babb would have matched up better against Diebler.

  3. Very disappointing loss - hope we can rebound against Minny.

I’m going to be a big NW fan tonight as to ensure Minny completely mails it in to end the season.

[quote=“Great Santini, post:1, topic:2033”]Didn’t get to see the game and only listened to a little - brought my wife home from the hospital after shoulder surgery last night.

Here are some thoughts and questions on OSU.

  1. It sure seems to me that after Diebler hit three or four three pointers, we should have never let him get an open shot again. I guess we were doubling down on Sullinger. OK - I understand that. But if Sullinger hits 10 shots, it’s 20 points; if Diebler hits ten shots, it’s 30 points. We’ve seemed to have had troubling defending three point shooters all season.

  2. I wonder if Chris Babb would have matched up better against Diebler.

  3. Very disappointing loss - hope we can rebound against Minny.[/quote]

  4. Very True

  5. No

  6. Sure we can as Tom said above they might have mailed it in by then

[quote=“Great Santini, post:1, topic:2033”]Didn’t get to see the game and only listened to a little - brought my wife home from the hospital after shoulder surgery last night.

Here are some thoughts and questions on OSU.

1. It sure seems to me that after Diebler hit three or four three pointers, we should have never let him get an open shot again. I guess we were doubling down on Sullinger. OK - I understand that. But if Sullinger hits 10 shots, it’s 20 points; if Diebler hits ten shots, it’s 30 points. We’ve seemed to have had troubling defending three point shooters all season.
2. I wonder if Chris Babb would have matched up better against Diebler.

  1. Very disappointing loss - hope we can rebound against Minny.[/quote]

Exactly what I was saying in the IGT last night and was taking major heat for it. Why would you give up high percentage shots in the paint is what I was asked. Well when a guy is shooting like Deibler last night open looks for him are automatic and I like you would have rather given up 2 a trip than 3. And that is also assuming Sullinger makes everything inside which is unlikely.

[quote="Great Santini, post:1, topic:2033"]3. Very disappointing loss - hope we can rebound against Minny.[/quote]

I’m going to be a big NW fan tonight as to ensure Minny completely mails it in to end the season.

Well, its senior night at NW. Hopefully their senior night works out better than ours.

PSU’s perimeter defense was poor! Very poor. We did not always douple down! But when we did it created a NBA like defensive rotation…that didn’t work very well.
Hey, we did not play well…we got whipped…Let’s move on.

Beat Minnehaha and we are in.

[quote="Great Santini, post:1, topic:2033"]Didn't get to see the game and only listened to a little - brought my wife home from the hospital after shoulder surgery last night.

Here are some thoughts and questions on OSU.

1. It sure seems to me that after Diebler hit three or four three pointers, we should have never let him get an open shot again. I guess we were doubling down on Sullinger. OK - I understand that. But if Sullinger hits 10 shots, it’s 20 points; if Diebler hits ten shots, it’s 30 points. We’ve seemed to have had troubling defending three point shooters all season.
2. I wonder if Chris Babb would have matched up better against Diebler.

  1. Very disappointing loss - hope we can rebound against Minny.[/quote]

Exactly what I was saying in the IGT last night and was taking major heat for it. Why would you give up high percentage shots in the paint is what I was asked. Well when a guy is shooting like Deibler last night open looks for him are automatic and I like you would have rather given up 2 a trip than 3. And that is also assuming Sullinger makes everything inside which is unlikely.

OSU has 5 guys that can beat you, and they did last night. I’m sure Ed was telling them they have to close out on Diebler, he’s the freaking 3 point record holder for god’s sake - we weren’t just ignoring him. But it’s not like a Jimmer Fredette situation where he’s the only guy you’re focusing on, he’s their 3rd or 4th best scorer most nights - you don’t forget about the other guys to go run him off shots, and you also don’t expect him to hit 10 in a row - even OSU doesn’t expect him to hit 10 in a row.

A guy shoots like that and there’s just not much you can do about it. It’s how fans must feel sometimes when Talor gets going for us. Surely they’re all screaming “make someone else beat us”, but sometimes you just can’t stop a good player from getting his and that’s what i mostly saw last night. i mean we had a real problem with Buford also, he was like 9-13 shooting with 8 minutes left in the game. Everybody on their team was completely in sync and they all had great shooting touch last night.

[quote="Great Santini, post:1, topic:2033"]Didn't get to see the game and only listened to a little - brought my wife home from the hospital after shoulder surgery last night.

Here are some thoughts and questions on OSU.

1. It sure seems to me that after Diebler hit three or four three pointers, we should have never let him get an open shot again. I guess we were doubling down on Sullinger. OK - I understand that. But if Sullinger hits 10 shots, it’s 20 points; if Diebler hits ten shots, it’s 30 points. We’ve seemed to have had troubling defending three point shooters all season.
2. I wonder if Chris Babb would have matched up better against Diebler.

  1. Very disappointing loss - hope we can rebound against Minny.[/quote]

Exactly what I was saying in the IGT last night and was taking major heat for it. Why would you give up high percentage shots in the paint is what I was asked. Well when a guy is shooting like Deibler last night open looks for him are automatic and I like you would have rather given up 2 a trip than 3. And that is also assuming Sullinger makes everything inside which is unlikely.

OSU has 5 guys that can beat you, and they did last night. I’m sure Ed was telling them they have to close out on Diebler, he’s the freaking 3 point record holder for god’s sake - we weren’t just ignoring him. But it’s not like a Jimmer Fredette situation where he’s the only guy you’re focusing on, he’s their 3rd or 4th best scorer most nights - you don’t forget about the other guys to go run him off shots, and you also don’t expect him to hit 10 in a row - even OSU doesn’t expect him to hit 10 in a row.

A guy shoots like that and there’s just not much you can do about it. It’s how fans must feel sometimes when Talor gets going for us. Surely they’re all screaming “make someone else beat us”, but sometimes you just can’t stop a good player from getting his and that’s what i mostly saw last night. i mean we had a real problem with Buford also, he was like 9-13 shooting with 8 minutes left in the game. Everybody on their team was completely in sync and they all had great shooting touch last night.

When a guy is hot he is hot but you can get a hand in his face. The diff is when Talor gets going he normally has defenders all over him . He just gets in the zone and hits from anywhere. Diebler was shooting a lot of uncontested shots .

If people can go back and remember what made us more successful against OSU the first time we played them, you’ll see that one of the reasons was Diebler only hit two three pointers.

Thad coached a perfect game plan against us. He knew we would double Sullinger almost every time he touched the ball. So what Thad did was move Diebler to the side of the court that was constantly vacated from our double, and basically gave him the green light. Jon just popped in three after three.

I’ve seen some people trying to remain optimistic, and I don’t even know how that’s possible after last night. In the biggest game of our season, and easily the biggest of DeChellis’ career, they score 18 points in the first half and let someone make 10 three pointers against some really soft D.

We gave up 55.4% shooting on our floor. That’s inexcusable, and our bad performance last night has killed any hopes we had of an NCAA bid that isn’t us winning it all on Sunday.

Remember: No 14 loss team has been invited as an at large in the last four years. Sure there are four more bids, but with our lackluster resume, it’s highly unlikely we get in. Sorry, I tried to get on the optimism train, but it’s quickly heading off a cliff. I wouldn’t be surprised if this team goes 0-2 to end the season.

[quote="Great Santini, post:1, topic:2033"]Didn't get to see the game and only listened to a little - brought my wife home from the hospital after shoulder surgery last night.

Here are some thoughts and questions on OSU.

1. It sure seems to me that after Diebler hit three or four three pointers, we should have never let him get an open shot again. I guess we were doubling down on Sullinger. OK - I understand that. But if Sullinger hits 10 shots, it’s 20 points; if Diebler hits ten shots, it’s 30 points. We’ve seemed to have had troubling defending three point shooters all season.
2. I wonder if Chris Babb would have matched up better against Diebler.

  1. Very disappointing loss - hope we can rebound against Minny.[/quote]

Exactly what I was saying in the IGT last night and was taking major heat for it. Why would you give up high percentage shots in the paint is what I was asked. Well when a guy is shooting like Deibler last night open looks for him are automatic and I like you would have rather given up 2 a trip than 3. And that is also assuming Sullinger makes everything inside which is unlikely.

OSU has 5 guys that can beat you, and they did last night. I’m sure Ed was telling them they have to close out on Diebler, he’s the freaking 3 point record holder for god’s sake - we weren’t just ignoring him. But it’s not like a Jimmer Fredette situation where he’s the only guy you’re focusing on, he’s their 3rd or 4th best scorer most nights - you don’t forget about the other guys to go run him off shots, and you also don’t expect him to hit 10 in a row - even OSU doesn’t expect him to hit 10 in a row.

A guy shoots like that and there’s just not much you can do about it. It’s how fans must feel sometimes when Talor gets going for us. Surely they’re all screaming “make someone else beat us”, but sometimes you just can’t stop a good player from getting his and that’s what i mostly saw last night. i mean we had a real problem with Buford also, he was like 9-13 shooting with 8 minutes left in the game. Everybody on their team was completely in sync and they all had great shooting touch last night.

Craftsy I am not saying we were “ignoring” Deibler. I am saying the decision by Ed to double the post made it tough for us to get back to him and after 3 or 4 consecutive makes I feel we should have changed something up thats all. Credit OSU though in that they executed flawlessly to make us pay for the doubles. To me though you take your chances 1v1 in the post vs Sullinger when shooters are as hot as OSU’s were last night. I know Sully is tough but a)we are at home on senior night b)play tough defense and make the official blow the whistle and c)hope that even if the guy gets off some good shots he is not as hot as their guys were from 3. And it wasn’t just Deibler either making shots, Buford hit a ton of outside shots off our of double teams as well as Craft.

A couple of differences between Deilber(sp) and Talor. Deilber is MUCH taller. It is easier for him to shoot over defenders. Notice how Talor has expanded his range this year (moved back.) BUT…when guarded Talor is much better at using the dribble to drive around a defender.
I’m not sure what every body’s point is in this thread. I don’t think we played well. Check out Ed’s post game comments!! Offense or defense. Just because tO$U is good, does NOT mean PSU played well. This is not the end of the world. Most BigTen101010 teams don’t play well quite often. Look at the standings!!
Also, stationary shooters like Deilber(sp) should not get 30 points…tall or not!

Beat Minnehaha and we are dancing!!

[quote=“rwd5035, post:9, topic:2033”]If people can go back and remember what made us more successful against OSU the first time we played them, you’ll see that one of the reasons was Diebler only hit two three pointers.

Thad coached a perfect game plan against us. He knew we would double Sullinger almost every time he touched the ball. So what Thad did was move Diebler to the side of the court that was constantly vacated from our double, and basically gave him the green light. Jon just popped in three after three.

I’ve seen some people trying to remain optimistic, and I don’t even know how that’s possible after last night. In the biggest game of our season, and easily the biggest of DeChellis’ career, they score 18 points in the first half and let someone make 10 three pointers against some really soft D.

We gave up 55.4% shooting on our floor. That’s inexcusable, and our bad performance last night has killed any hopes we had of an NCAA bid that isn’t us winning it all on Sunday. Remember: No 14 loss team has been invited as an at large in the last four years. Sure there are four more bids, but with our lackluster resume, it’s highly unlikely we get in. Sorry, I tried to get on the optimism train, but it’s quickly heading off a cliff. I wouldn’t be surprised if this team goes 0-2 to end the season.[/quote]

This is the biggest issue I have with people in the IGT and elsewhere proclaiming that it was simply guys getting “hot” against us. I hear this all the time. Does everyone always think it is just someone getting “hot” or think that it just may have something to do with the way we are playing defense and the quality shots teams are getting against us? To me it is a coaching/execution issue. You cannot explain losses away infinitely by saying guys are just shooting well against us.

Thad coached a perfect game plan against us. He knew we would double Sullinger almost every time he touched the ball. So what Thad did was move Diebler to the side of the court that was constantly vacated from our double, and basically gave him the green light. Jon just popped in three after three.

This is not how I remember Diebler getting most of his shots. I remember them running at least 3 different plays specifically for him to get looks, I remember him shooting at least 2 off of fast breaks or scramble type of plays. And i remember him hitting a few hotly contested ones also. This wasn’t just a matter of having a gameplan that beat us, it was a matter of having excellent players that understand what to do when the gameplan breaks down.

I mean, i know you guys hate to hear this - but when a team shoots that well, there just isn’t a lot you can do to stop them.

True…but why does it seem a lot teams have such great shooting days against us?

[quote="rwd5035, post:9, topic:2033"]If people can go back and remember what made us more successful against OSU the first time we played them, you'll see that one of the reasons was Diebler only hit two three pointers.

Thad coached a perfect game plan against us. He knew we would double Sullinger almost every time he touched the ball. So what Thad did was move Diebler to the side of the court that was constantly vacated from our double, and basically gave him the green light. Jon just popped in three after three.

I’ve seen some people trying to remain optimistic, and I don’t even know how that’s possible after last night. In the biggest game of our season, and easily the biggest of DeChellis’ career, they score 18 points in the first half and let someone make 10 three pointers against some really soft D.

We gave up 55.4% shooting on our floor. That’s inexcusable, and our bad performance last night has killed any hopes we had of an NCAA bid that isn’t us winning it all on Sunday. Remember: No 14 loss team has been invited as an at large in the last four years. Sure there are four more bids, but with our lackluster resume, it’s highly unlikely we get in. Sorry, I tried to get on the optimism train, but it’s quickly heading off a cliff. I wouldn’t be surprised if this team goes 0-2 to end the season.[/quote]

This is the biggest issue I have with people in the IGT and elsewhere proclaiming that it was simply guys getting “hot” against us. I hear this all the time. Does everyone always think it is just someone getting “hot” or think that it just may have something to do with the way we are playing defense and the quality shots teams are getting against us? To me it is a coaching/execution issue. You cannot explain losses away infinitely by saying guys are just shooting well against us.

There are games where we play poor defense, and last night might have been a case of this. but it’s also easier to defend teams that aren’t making a ridiculous number of contested shots. This is the 2nd most efficient offense in the country we played, they are going to make most defenses look bad, but they aren’t going to shoot 55 percent against every team they face.

At a certain point you have to give them credit. Could we have played better? Absolutely. But there was no chance we were winning this game given how efficiently they were scoring the ball. That was a great team playing great. We are an average team that played average. Even a good team playing great loses last night, so let’s not get too caught up on what we did wrong - a lot of what we did wrong was because of what OSU did right. It goes both ways.

I think it’s strange to see everybody jumping off the bandwagon after THIS loss. This is a game we were supposed to lose. If you want to start throwing the entire team under the bus you are going to have to point to other moments in the season. I don’t think the 1 game extra that we needed to dance should be seen as the OSU loss. How about the Purdue blown call or the UM games? Any one of those 3 and we are still controlling our own destiny right now. I don’t think that makes us this huge disappointment of a team, it means we just came up short in a few instances where we couldn’t afford it. A decent team that had too many lapses when it couldn’t afford them.

[quote="Craftsy21, post:13, topic:2033"]I mean, i know you guys hate to hear this - but when a team shoots that well, there just isn't a lot you can do to stop them.[/quote]

True…but why does it seem a lot teams have such great shooting days against us?

Because we played one of the toughest schedules in the country and we don’t have a great defense. ???

[quote="Craftsy21, post:13, topic:2033"]I mean, i know you guys hate to hear this - but when a team shoots that well, there just isn't a lot you can do to stop them.[/quote]

True…but why does it seem a lot teams have such great shooting days against us?

Teams that recruit at the highest level put five really good players on the floor and bring good ones off the bench. All really good players need is single coverage and a decent screen.

Teams that recruit at lower levels need to double-up and help like crazy to stop guys who are NBA caliber. It leaves them vulnerable to the open man.

It’s like Matta said about Craft’s performance in game one - “They chose not to guard him.” Chose being the operative word.

I love our guys, but they are outmanned against Final Four caliber teams, and those teams can make you pay.

[quote="rwd5035, post:9, topic:2033"]If people can go back and remember what made us more successful against OSU the first time we played them, you'll see that one of the reasons was Diebler only hit two three pointers.

Thad coached a perfect game plan against us. He knew we would double Sullinger almost every time he touched the ball. So what Thad did was move Diebler to the side of the court that was constantly vacated from our double, and basically gave him the green light. Jon just popped in three after three.

I’ve seen some people trying to remain optimistic, and I don’t even know how that’s possible after last night. In the biggest game of our season, and easily the biggest of DeChellis’ career, they score 18 points in the first half and let someone make 10 three pointers against some really soft D.

We gave up 55.4% shooting on our floor. That’s inexcusable, and our bad performance last night has killed any hopes we had of an NCAA bid that isn’t us winning it all on Sunday. Remember: No 14 loss team has been invited as an at large in the last four years. Sure there are four more bids, but with our lackluster resume, it’s highly unlikely we get in. Sorry, I tried to get on the optimism train, but it’s quickly heading off a cliff. I wouldn’t be surprised if this team goes 0-2 to end the season.[/quote]

This is the biggest issue I have with people in the IGT and elsewhere proclaiming that it was simply guys getting “hot” against us. I hear this all the time. Does everyone always think it is just someone getting “hot” or think that it just may have something to do with the way we are playing defense and the quality shots teams are getting against us? To me it is a coaching/execution issue. You cannot explain losses away infinitely by saying guys are just shooting well against us.

There are games where we play poor defense, and last night might have been a case of this. but it’s also easier to defend teams that aren’t making a ridiculous number of contested shots. This is the 2nd most efficient offense in the country we played, they are going to make most defenses look bad, but they aren’t going to shoot 55 percent against every team they face.

At a certain point you have to give them credit. Could we have played better? Absolutely. But there was no chance we were winning this game given how efficiently they were scoring the ball. That was a great team playing great. We are an average team that played average. Even a good team playing great loses last night, so let’s not get too caught up on what we did wrong - a lot of what we did wrong was because of what OSU did right. It goes both ways.

I think it’s strange to see everybody jumping off the bandwagon after THIS loss. This is a game we were supposed to lose. If you want to start throwing the entire team under the bus you are going to have to point to other moments in the season. I don’t think the 1 game extra that we needed to dance should be seen as the OSU loss. How about the Purdue blown call or the UM games? Any one of those 3 and we are still controlling our own destiny right now. I don’t think that makes us this huge disappointment of a team, it means we just came up short in a few instances where we couldn’t afford it. A decent team that had too many lapses when it couldn’t afford them.

Listen I am not throwing the entire team “under the bus”. I am just discussing the game and where I felt we could have done some things differently. I am very proud of the guys and the great games they have given us this year. I am also not off of or never was on any bandwagon. I am a fan of the program through good and (mostly) bad times. I still feel if we can get the W at Minny, win the first in Indy and pull a shocker off on Friday at the BTT we are IN. Any less I dont feel gets it done for us and its back to the NIT.

[quote="Craftsy21, post:13, topic:2033"]I mean, i know you guys hate to hear this - but when a team shoots that well, there just isn't a lot you can do to stop them.[/quote]

True…but why does it seem a lot teams have such great shooting days against us?

Teams that recruit at the highest level put five really good players on the floor and bring good ones off the bench. All really good players need is single coverage and a decent screen.

Teams that recruit at lower levels need to double-up and help like crazy to stop guys who are NBA caliber. It leaves them vulnerable to the open man.

It’s like Matta said about Craft’s performance in game one - “They chose not to guard him.” Chose being the operative word.

I love our guys, but they are outmanned against Final Four caliber teams, and those teams can make you pay.


Come on take off your blue and white goggles ::slight_smile: We have been lit up this year by many teams that are not even close to “final four caliber” or recruit at the “highest level”

[quote=“tundra, post:6, topic:2033”]PSU’s perimeter defense was poor! Very poor. We did not always douple down! But when we did it created a NBA like defensive rotation…that didn’t work very well.
Hey, we did not play well…we got whipped…Let’s move on.

Beat Minnehaha and we are in.[/quote]
Just beating Minny will NOT get the Nits into the NCAA tourney