The Big Ten Conference ranked by experience


#1

Using Ken Pomeroy’s experience numbers, the average experience of our team is 1.48 years while the national average is 1.70 years. That makes us a relatively inexperienced team.

Here’s how the league stacks up experience wise (looks a lot like the standings).

  1. Ohio State 2.71 yrs
  2. Wisconsin 1.97
  3. Purdue 1.85
  4. Minn 1.74
  5. MSU 1.61
  6. Illinos 1.49
  7. Michigan 1.48
  8. PSU 1.48
  9. Northwestern 1.38
  10. Indiana 0.88
  11. Iowa 0.86

Experience numbers from Ken Pomeroy


#2
looks a lot like the standings

Funny how that works. ;D


#3

Makes those loses to Indiana and Iowa hurt more.


#4

Funny how that works. ;D[/quote]

Funny how it doesn’t work. Doesn’t seem to be hurting Kentucky much at 1.38. Nor Florida St., Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, Gonzaga or George Mason, all much less experienced than PSU, and I think most tourney teams.

Until the day comes when posters stop looking for reasons and excuses for failure and start looking for solutions to winning, I don’t expect the program to succeed. Losing has become acceptable. Shameful.


#5

How is this rating made up? 4 = Senior, 3 = Junior, etc?


#6

It’s eligibility class (FR=0, SO=1, JR=2, SR=3) weighted by minutes played (exactly how it’s weighted, I don’t know).


#7
[quote="Craftsy21, post:2, topic:931"][quote]looks a lot like the standings[/quote]

Funny how that works. ;D[/quote]

Funny how it doesn’t work. Doesn’t seem to be hurting Kentucky much at 1.38. Nor Florida St., Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, Gonzaga or George Mason, all much less experienced than PSU, and I think most tourney teams.

Until the day comes when posters stop looking for reasons and excuses for failure and start looking for solutions to winning, I don’t expect the program to succeed. Losing has become acceptable. Shameful.

Riiight. Let’s compare us to kentucky who has the best recruiting class of all time…


#8

Oh okay, makes more sense. I was going to say that PSU has a heavy dosage of four “3’s” so I didn’t understand how their average was in 1s.


#9
[quote="Craftsy21, post:2, topic:931"][quote]looks a lot like the standings[/quote]

Funny how that works. ;D[/quote]

Funny how it doesn’t work. Doesn’t seem to be hurting Kentucky much at 1.38. Nor Florida St., Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, Gonzaga or George Mason, all much less experienced than PSU, and I think most tourney teams.

Until the day comes when posters stop looking for reasons and excuses for failure and start looking for solutions to winning, I don’t expect the program to succeed. Losing has become acceptable. Shameful.

Riiight. Let’s compare us to kentucky who has the best recruiting class of all time…

That would have been Penn State’s recruiting class if this board wasn’t so full of defeatists! :stuck_out_tongue:


#10

I haven’t looked at all the other rosters, but I have a feeling Penn State will be near or at the top next year.


#11
[quote="Craftsy21, post:2, topic:931"][quote]looks a lot like the standings[/quote]

Funny how that works. ;D[/quote]

Funny how it doesn’t work. Doesn’t seem to be hurting Kentucky much at 1.38. Nor Florida St., Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, Gonzaga or George Mason, all much less experienced than PSU, and I think most tourney teams.

Until the day comes when posters stop looking for reasons and excuses for failure and start looking for solutions to winning, I don’t expect the program to succeed. Losing has become acceptable. Shameful.

Riiight. Let’s compare us to kentucky who has the best recruiting class of all time…

Because of you, I included the other schools. Do George Mason and Vandy have the second and third best recruiting classes? Florida won a national championship with sophs. The next year they won vs. OSU which started 3 freshmen, Conley, Oden and Cook. I guess it’s lucky for Matta and Donovan that they don’t think like you. Did you notice we have the 62nd team in average height? That doesn’t mean anything though, having a younger team explains our record, but it doesn’t explain the younger teams who are way ahead of us in RPI. They must be taller…or is it shorter…or they cheat…no, they all have the best recruiting classes they’ve ever had. And they get all those home calls.

How can we expect to compete with George Mason? Didn’t they make the Final 4 just a few years ago? We don’t have that legacy. And Mason has been DI for less than 20 years, so they’re special. They don’t have the long term baggage, but now they have a legacy, best of both worlds. And Georgetown won with Ewing. His picture is still in the locker room. So what it’s been 25 years? How can we compete with that? And Vanderbilt has a medical school, so they treat injuries better. They don’t have players go down with cramps or stomach issues. Docs on the bench. And it’s in Tennessee. Do you see how good U of Tennessee is? Well, that’s a good state to have a team in. Our states’ not the mecca for basketball. Don’t count Villanova, that’s near Philly. That doesn’t count. And I know Xavier and Oklahoma State have younger players than us, but first the legacy issue, and OK St. beat Kansas, so do you know how good they must be? So throw them out. And Xavier is a mid-major. Everybody knows they’re great places to recruit from. That about cover all bases?

Excuse after excuse after excuse.


#12
Excuse after excuse after excuse.

Where are all the people who were screaming about the Tubby and Beilein hires being so wonderful? You guys all make it sound SO easy to just become successful, yet programs with better histories and higher paid coaches are facing the same kind of troubles that we are… so where does that leave us exactly?

You point to programs that have NOTHING in common with our situation and say “that should be us”, then you say we’re all just making up excuses when we explain why that will likely NEVER be us, why it HAS never been us.

You say I make excuses, but I’m not excusing anything. I’ve just come to grips with the fact that it’s going to take a lot of patience and persistence to make it anywhere as a program consistently - I’m not naive enough to believe that simply hiring and firing coach after coach until you find a winner is really going to provide any better results than we’re currently seeing, it just doesn’t work that way more often than not.

We suck as a program - everyone knows that. But I do believe we’re closer now to having some stability and potential consistency than we’ve ever been, and so yes I’m willing to be a bit more patient than others and try to keep some perspective about it all. Tearing down and starting over doesn’t make sense to me when we’ve got a team that will all return next year with a good number of talented players. If I really didn’t see any potential in the guys we currently have I’d be right on board with the rest of you - but this isn’t a team like at the end of Dunn’s era, this is a very decent team with room to grow and that comes from an extremely pessimistic fan despite what you may think.

I’ve just grown very sick of people doubting these kids when it’s obvious that one of their biggest issues this year is a lack of confidence.


#13
  • I’m not naive enough to believe that simply hiring and firing coach after coach until you find a winner is really going to provide any better results than we’re currently seeing, it just doesn’t work that way more often than not.[/quote]Jerry was Head Coach for 8 years. Ed more than likely will be still on board for year 8. I don’t really think that’s a lot of hiring and firing. 2 coaches in 16 years doesn’t seem to bad to me.

I’m sorry but there can’t be any excuses for going 3-15 in conf year 7 when you are starting 4 Juniors who all have experience.


#14

Where are all the people who were screaming about the Tubby and Beilein hires being so wonderful? You guys all make it sound SO easy to just become successful, yet programs with better histories and higher paid coaches are facing the same kind of troubles that we are… so where does that leave us exactly?

You point to programs that have NOTHING in common with our situation and say “that should be us”, then you say we’re all just making up excuses when we explain why that will likely NEVER be us, why it HAS never been us.

You say I make excuses, but I’m not excusing anything. I’ve just come to grips with the fact that it’s going to take a lot of patience and persistence to make it anywhere as a program consistently - I’m not naive enough to believe that simply hiring and firing coach after coach until you find a winner is really going to provide any better results than we’re currently seeing, it just doesn’t work that way more often than not.

We suck as a program - everyone knows that. But I do believe we’re closer now to having some stability and potential consistency than we’ve ever been, and so yes I’m willing to be a bit more patient than others and try to keep some perspective about it all. Tearing down and starting over doesn’t make sense to me when we’ve got a team that will all return next year with a good number of talented players. If I really didn’t see any potential in the guys we currently have I’d be right on board with the rest of you - but this isn’t a team like at the end of Dunn’s era, this is a very decent team with room to grow and that comes from an extremely pessimistic fan despite what you may think.

I’ve just grown very sick of people doubting these kids when it’s obvious that one of their biggest issues this year is a lack of confidence.[/quote]

How patient do you want us to be? You speak as if we are calling for Ed’s head in year 2. 7 years is a pretty fair amount of time to evaluate progress. So if Ed comes back next year and wins 6 conference games. What do you say then? He doubled in win total, lets keep this going. Most logical observers would agree it’s not absurd to make a coaching change after 7 seasons of missing the NCAA tournament. YES, there is something to be said for stability and patience. However, the results are just not acceptable at this point.

Most likely, Dechellis will be back next year. But if he misses the NCAA’s and the team struggles, Penn State would have to be completely nuts to keep him. Would you argue that point???


#15

Where are all the people who were screaming about the Tubby and Beilein hires being so wonderful? [/quote]

Three season at Minnesota and Tubby will have recorded three straight winning seasons (first time since 02-03), three straight postseason berths with at least one trip to the NCAA Tournament (first time since 98-99, which were all vacated due to academic fraud), three straight seasons with at least 8 Big Ten wins (first official time since 82-83), and possibly three straight 20+ win seasons (which has never happened in Minnesota basketball, ever!) Sounds pretty damn wonderful when you consider their history, or lack thereof.

Beilein at Michigan? Not as wonderful, although he did take the Wolverines to their first NCAA appearance since 1998 (which was also vacated due to academic scandal).

Where Ed has made a home for the team in four of the last seven seasons, last place.

That’s because, to apologists like yourself, there is NO other school like Penn State and there is no other situation like what Penn State faces. That makes it easier to excuse away all the examples of other schools that are able to be successful despite circumstances that face them.

It has been seven seasons since Penn State let go of Jerry Dunn. How long would the school hang onto Ed for you to stop with the rhetoric of “firing coach after coach”.

Yea, the consistency of being in last place an average of every other season. ::slight_smile:

Tearing down ans starting over? The double talk that you spew is head shaking. You state with one side of your mouth that this team isn’t like at the end of Dunn’s era (thus meaning it wouldn’t be necessary to “tear down and start over”), and then with the other side of your mouth you whine about having to start from scratch. If this program isn’t is as bad of shape as when Dunn left, then it shouldn’t be nearly as challenging to start from where the program is now.

[quote=“Craftsy21, post:12, topic:931”]If I really didn’t see any potential in the guys we currently have I’d be right on board with the rest of you - but this isn’t a team like at the end of Dunn’s era, this is a very decent team with room to grow and that comes from an extremely pessimistic fan despite what you may think.

I’ve just grown very sick of people doubting these kids when it’s obvious that one of their biggest issues this year is a lack of confidence.[/quote]
Despite your rhetoric, I haven’t seen people doubt the kids. They are doubting the leadership from the administration and the coaching staff.

Why it is so hard for people like yourself to accept that, after seven seasons Ed isn’t capable of “getting it done”, is beyond me. By now, after seven seasons, his teams shouldn’t be figthing to stay out of last place, yet again. If he was capable of building a winning program, then it should be recognized and he should be replaced with someone who is capable of doing a better job. There is more room to improve than to fall.

You act like a beggar who is afraid to move on (in hopes of bettering his situation) because he is happy to be getting his occasional scraps of food dropped from the table of the wealthier lords of the manor. You are so afraid of the possibility of failure, that doing nothing at all seems better than taking a chance of doing something that might succeed. At least the people who are pessimistic about Ed care enough to want to try something that can result in success. Those who want to do nothing but maintain the status quo are frozen by their fear. That is truly the saddest thing of all.


#16

I would have an easier time being more patient if I wasn’t so damn old already. I would just love to see PSU be more competitive while I am still able to make the 3 hr. round trip drives to watch them play.


#17

So we’re just going to forget that everyone was ready to move Ed out of here after about year 2? Or what about the people that weren’t happy with him from the start and have just been pushing for him to be outed since day 1?

Again - I don’t believe Ed is a great X’s and O’s coach, but I also don’t believe there’s many coaches out there that would be doing a better job recruiting here than him right now at PSU.

What’s funny to me is that so many people were satisfied with Ed after last year, completely supported him and were accepting of the fact that this year would be a step backwards. Yet when they actually had to sit through the step backwards, they were converted into the “Ed sucks” camp.

Ed’s never been a great coach in terms of execution on the court - but he’s made great strides in recruiting here at PSU and I’m not ready to roll the clock back by grabbing another middle of the road assistant somewhere that MIGHT start recruiting as well as Ed after another 5 years. We’re much closer to the right track now than we would be starting over again, especially considering how many coaching moves for schools like us DON’T end up working.


#18
You act like a beggar who is afraid to move on (in hopes of bettering his situation) because he is happy to be getting his occasional scraps of food dropped from the table of the wealthier lords of the manor. You are so afraid of the possibility of failure, that doing nothing at all seems better than taking a chance of doing something that might succeed. At least the people who are pessimistic about Ed care enough to want to try something that can result in success. Those who want to do nothing but maintain the status quo are frozen by their fear. That is truly the saddest thing of all.

I just HAD to see what you have to say… i can’t resist, call me a glutton for punishment.

This is where your whole argument and list of accusations falls apart. What exactly are “people like myself” afraid of? Losing MORE? Winning?

Sorry to break it to you, my camp isn’t motivated by fear of any sort - I don’t know what one could possibly fear at this point, we bottomed out many years ago and have yet to climb out of it.

My hope on the other hand, is that Ed is finally increasing the overall talent level at this school and despite the fact that it’s taking longer than some of you think is acceptable, things are looking up. Maybe not in the W/L column, but I can see both statistically and with my eyes that we’ve finally got the guns to compete at this level on a regular basis - next year should help us see more improvement in the standings.

If we don’t improve next year a good deal, I will be more than happy to wish Ed farewell. It’s definitely the make or break year for him, to see if people like me or people like you are correct. But the thing is, I will be willing to admit that Ed needs to go if next year is a stinker… whereas you and everyone else like you will never give Ed an ounce of credit for anything he may or may not do from this point forward.

I also know that there’s a good chance you and your types may NEVER be happy with the program at this school, and it makes me wonder what your real motivation in continuing to “support” it is. You all take far more pleasure in taking note of where we fall short of other people and other programs than you do anything else related to PSU hoops. Hate to break it to you, but as I’ve pointed out before, we’re never going to be Michigan State in basketball. We are in a league with some of the best coaches in the game, and we’re not going to go out and buy and/or attract a coach that can rival those guys anytime soon. If that’s a problem for you, you’re probably better off finding a new hobby. But that’s how it’s always been here, so I don’t know why it’s still a surprise to anyone.

So here’s the million dollar question… what exactly do you and your types want out of this all? You’re all great at pointing out the short-comings of the current staff and administration, but it’s rare that any of you have actual solutions for all these “excuses” we make… how about instead of simply pitching a fit and turning all the “apologists” into your punching bags, you offer up some answers to all these questions.


#19

“You say I make excuses, but I’m not excusing anything. I’ve just come to grips with the fact that it’s going to take a lot of patience and persistence to make it anywhere as a program consistently -”

NO, ITS GOING TO TAKE A reasonably GOOD BIG TEN COACH. 7 years of disappointment, incredibly poor results and an almost total inability to attract top recruits is enough to know Dechellis is not good enough to compete in the Big Ten.

“I’m not naive enough to believe that simply hiring and firing coach after coach until you find a winner is really going to provide any better results than we’re currently seeing, it just doesn’t work that way more often than not.”

Who said anything about hiring and firing coaches. DeChellis has had more than enough time to make STATE a consistently good BB program. If it hasn’t happened in 7 years do you really think it will ever happen?

“We suck as a program - everyone knows that. But I do believe we’re closer now to having some stability and potential consistency than we’ve ever been,”

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

"and so yes I’m willing to be a bit more patient than others and try to keep some perspective about it all. Tearing down and starting over doesn’t make sense to me when we’ve got a team that will all return next year with a good number of talented players. "

“Why start over when you are accustomed to mediocrity and accept it unconditionally”

" If I really didn’t see any potential in the guys we currently have I’d be right on board with the rest of you - but this isn’t a team like at the end of Dunn’s era, this is a very decent team with room to grow and that comes from an extremely pessimistic fan despite what you may think.

I’ve just grown very sick of people doubting these kids when it’s obvious that one of their biggest issues this year is a lack of confidence. "

If you really do see potential wouldn’t it be wonderful to have a coach who actually could coach?


#20
If you really do see potential wouldn't it be wonderful to have a coach who actually could coach?

Yes, but these are Ed’s players. Look around the country to see what happens when you fire a coach… you are almost always starting over because of transfers and de-commits. It’s back to square 1.

I don’t know why some of you are under the impression that a new coach would step in and just inherit all the same players, it’s highly unlikely.