Talor Battle on a Naismith Award's preseason watch list


#1

sportsillustrated.cnn.com: Inside the Naismith voting process


#2

That’s not the Naismith watch list. It’s just one’s guys ballot of candidates to put on the list.


#3

It may be one guy’s list, but it’s still surprising to see Lucas and Reynolds on the 1st team, and Talor on the 4th team. Yes, their teams are better, but on what measure(s) are they better? It’s one reason PSU should have teams like Pitt, Nova, Syracuse on their OOC sked. Play them, compete with them, and you’ll be more respected and get better recruits. If PSU played Nova, and Battle had a similar game like he did vs. MSU in Lansing, you think he’d still be behind both of them on 4th team? And how might beating Nova, or at even being in the game with them, affect PA HS players trying to decide where to attend school? IMO, this was the year to really step up the sked.


#4

I don’t know kid. It might not be as simple as that. What happens when you get blown out playing these top teams. We played ~itt in Pittsburgh the last 2 games and got murdered and came away with no respect in Pittsburgh. Nova is now on top of the Philly Big 5. Were they always…heck no. What put them on top? I think the Big East and the Big East TV coverage.
Building PSU’s program…well…it’s complicated. But nothing has really worked yet. So, what the heck. Let’s try it!


#5
[quote="kidcoyote, post:3, topic:99"]It may be one guy's list, but it's still surprising to see Lucas and Reynolds on the 1st team, and Talor on the 4th team. Yes, their teams are better, but on what measure(s) are they better? It's one reason PSU should have teams like Pitt, Nova, Syracuse on their OOC sked. Play them, compete with them, and you'll be more respected and get better recruits. If PSU played Nova, and Battle had a similar game like he did vs. MSU in Lansing, you think he'd still be behind both of them on 4th team? And how might beating Nova, or at even being in the game with them, affect PA HS players trying to decide where to attend school? IMO, this was the year to really step up the sked.[/quote] I don't know kid. It might not be as simple as that. What happens when you get blown out playing these top teams. We played ~itt in Pittsburgh the last 2 games and got murdered and came away with no respect in Pittsburgh. Nova is now on top of the Philly Big 5. Were they always........heck no. What put them on top? I think the Big East and the Big East TV coverage. Building PSU's program.........well........it's complicated. But nothing has really worked yet. So, what the heck. Let's try it!

Maybe 2010/2011. Florida was 18-1 at home before loss to PSU. If you beat them at home, #2 MSU at home, easily handle Notre Dame, and I think you need to have more confidence in your scheduling. Yes, Cornley and Pringle gone, but it’s never going to perfect situation. And Frazier’s going to be scary good. ;D


#6

Kid, I’m not sure I follow your logic here. I mean Battle dropped 28pts on MSU, who finished 2nd in country, at the Breslin Center, and they still put Lucas way ahead of Battle on their ballot. What makes you think they would change their mind if Battle did the same thing vs. Villanova?


#7
It may be one guy's list, but it's still surprising to see Lucas and Reynolds on the 1st team, and Talor on the 4th team. Yes, their teams are better, but on what measure(s) are they better? It's one reason PSU should have teams like Pitt, Nova, Syracuse on their OOC sked. Play them, compete with them, and you'll be more respected and get better recruits. [b]If PSU played Nova, and Battle had a similar game like he did vs. MSU in Lansing, you think he'd still be behind both of them on 4th team?[/b] And how might beating Nova, or at even being in the game with them, affect PA HS players trying to decide where to attend school? IMO, this was the year to really step up the sked.

Kid, I’m not sure I follow your logic here. I mean Battle dropped 28pts on MSU, who finished 2nd in country, at the Breslin Center, and they still put Lucas way ahead of Battle on their ballot. What makes you think they would change their mind if Battle did the same thing vs. Villanova?

Good point, but IMO, sports analysts, except for Big 10 analysts, don’t watch the Big 10 network. They watch espn, the networks, etc., so how often do they see Battle play?And how often do they see Reynolds and Lucas play? MSU and Nova play nationally televised OOC games, PSU doesn’t. That’s my point. If PSU plays Nova, Syracuse, UConn, then you see straight up who’s better. Otherwise, sports analysts are going to take players on the better ranked teams. Stephen Curry did it, but mainly due to winning an easy conference(as a soph) making the tourney, and killing WVU, Wisky, Georgetown. How many times do you see PSU highlights on espn vs. seeing Nova or MSU on espn? So, you see Reynolds hitting key shots, and you get wowed, but look at his numbers. They’re okay, but not great. Statistically, no contest between him and Battle, IMO. After last year’s beating of Florida, ND and Baylor, I would’ve expected tougher sked. Yes, we lost key players, but Syracuse lost Flynn, Devendorf and Harris, 3 starters. I would go fast on upping sked, not incrementally. Strike while the iron is hot. Re history of program, legacy, etc., don’t buy it. “All glory is fleeting.” On with the new…go PSU!


#8

OR we could drop out of the BigTen11 and join the Big (L)East. :stuck_out_tongue:


#9

One more point…
Big Brother (SI,ESPN,Networks) don’t want you to know that Middle Tennessee State (for example) has a pair of guards who would tear apart the guards from Nova. It doesn’t SELL and it’s all about SELLING.

so, kids from the smaller/minor programs will not get pre/post season hype and awards etc.


#10

[quote=“tundra, post:9, topic:99”]One more point…
Big Brother (SI,ESPN,Networks) don’t want you to know that Middle Tennessee State (for example) has a pair of guards who would tear apart the guards from Nova. It doesn’t SELL and it’s all about SELLING.

so, kids from the smaller/minor programs will not get pre/post season awards etc. [/quote]

Exactly. Doesn’t Kurt K’s. kid go there? Is he one of the guards of whom you write?

On your point, that’s why you have to get the games. Valvano, coaching Iona, beat #1 Louisville, with 1st round NBA pick, Darrell Griffith(Jeff Ruland was unstoppable). Digger got his job at ND, by beating them while coaching at Fordham. Charlie Yelverton was Fordham’s star, though they may have had another guy make pros. Last name Charles? Going from memory here.

Are you saying PSU is a smaller/minor program? If yes, I kind of agree, but shouldn’t be right now. Step up, take a few lumps, maybe get lucky, and you’ve arrived in the big time. After NIT, why play second fiddle anymore? Ever read the book, “As a Man Thinketh”? Why did Minny get Louisville last year? Neutral site, I think, so maybe tourney, but still. Wisky/Texas, Michigan/UConn.


#11
[quote="tundra, post:9, topic:99"]One more point............ Big Brother (SI,ESPN,Networks) don't want you to know that Middle Tennessee State (for example) has a pair of guards who would tear apart the guards from Nova. It doesn't SELL and it's all about SELLING.

so, kids from the smaller/minor programs will not get pre/post season awards etc.[/quote]

Exactly. Doesn’t Kurt K’s. kid go there? Is he one of the guards of whom you write?

He graduated.


#12
[quote="tundra, post:9, topic:99"]One more point............ Big Brother (SI,ESPN,Networks) don't want you to know that Middle Tennessee State (for example) has a pair of guards who would tear apart the guards from Nova. It doesn't SELL and it's all about SELLING.

so, kids from the smaller/minor programs will not get pre/post season awards etc.[/quote]

Exactly. Doesn’t Kurt K’s. kid go there? Is he one of the guards of whom you write?

He graduated.

Already? Time is a flying by. Seems like he should be a junior to me.


#13

[quote=“tundra, post:9, topic:99”]One more point…
Big Brother (SI,ESPN,Networks) don’t want you to know that Middle Tennessee State (for example) has a pair of guards who would tear apart the guards from Nova. It doesn’t SELL and it’s all about SELLING.

so, kids from the smaller/minor programs will not get pre/post season hype and awards etc. [/quote]

the major programs have always received the lion’s share of the hype LONG before the advent of television. how many awards have ever been won by the smaller programs, especially those that aren’t located near a major city?? actually, one could argue that the smaller programs are getting more exposure now with the growth of big television and the internet than they ever have. just how much pub would stephen curry & patrick mills have received without the proliferation of televised games? would schools like gonzaga & creighton have ever been able to become consistent programs without the ever evil espn?


#14
[quote="tundra, post:9, topic:99"]One more point............ Big Brother (SI,ESPN,Networks) don't want you to know that Middle Tennessee State (for example) has a pair of guards who would tear apart the guards from Nova. It doesn't SELL and it's all about SELLING.

so, kids from the smaller/minor programs will not get pre/post season awards etc.[/quote]

Exactly. Doesn’t Kurt K’s. kid go there? Is he one of the guards of whom you write?

On your point, that’s why you have to get the games. Valvano, coaching Iona, beat #1 Louisville, with 1st round NBA pick, Darrell Griffith(Jeff Ruland was unstoppable). Digger got his job at ND, by beating them while coaching at Fordham. Charlie Yelverton was Fordham’s star, though they may have had another guy make pros. Last name Charles? Going from memory here.

Are you saying PSU is a smaller/minor program? If yes, I kind of agree, but shouldn’t be right now. Step up, take a few lumps, maybe get lucky, and you’ve arrived in the big time. After NIT, why play second fiddle anymore? Ever read the book, “As a Man Thinketh”? Why did Minny get Louisville last year? Neutral site, I think, so maybe tourney, but still. Wisky/Texas, Michigan/UConn.

Kid, I think some of what your saying make sense but the Coaches and the program has been bitten by “false starts” (Crispin & Ivory Sweet Sixteen team and dramatic drop after that) that they took a bit of a conservative approach to this year schedule. Its schedule to get into the Dance if you win the games you supposed to and finish .500 in Big Ten. I do think there might be a bit more of the schedule you want in Battle’s senior year. Its the year to go for broke for sure and I think the Networks will be trying to set up a game like that with PSU.


#15
[quote="tundra, post:9, topic:99"]One more point............ Big Brother (SI,ESPN,Networks) don't want you to know that Middle Tennessee State (for example) has a pair of guards who would tear apart the guards from Nova. It doesn't SELL and it's all about SELLING.

so, kids from the smaller/minor programs will not get pre/post season hype and awards etc.[/quote]

the major programs have always received the lion’s share of the hype LONG before the advent of television. how many awards have ever been won by the smaller programs, especially those that aren’t located near a major city?? actually, one could argue that the smaller programs are getting more exposure now with the growth of big television and the internet than they ever have. just how much pub would stephen curry & patrick mills have received without the proliferation of televised games? would schools like gonzaga & creighton have ever been able to become consistent programs without the ever evil espn?


True ,maybe, in a VERY narrow/limited way. True that before the advent of TV awards were won by major problems BECAUSE the minor programs were not seen or heard from. An NBA team in the 60’s admitted to selecting their #1 draft pick SOLEY on a preseason magazine preview from Street & Smith’s. They NEVER saw (TV/film/in person) the kid play. EVER. The player turned out to be a flop.
BUT in the present day of cable TV and computers, everybody is seen and heard from. BUT I believe Big Brother (ESPN/SI/Networks) make a concerned effort to hype the major program players over minor program players because it makes good BUSINESS sense. In another thread you made a post that implied MLB teams are businesses and act accordingly. WELL ESPN/SI/Networks are businesses and they are acting accordingly in a BUSINESS sense.
P.S. Davidson was a major program as far back as the 60’s. Remember Lefty Driesell and Mike Malloy.

#16
[quote="tundra, post:9, topic:99"]One more point............ Big Brother (SI,ESPN,Networks) don't want you to know that Middle Tennessee State (for example) has a pair of guards who would tear apart the guards from Nova. It doesn't SELL and it's all about SELLING.

so, kids from the smaller/minor programs will not get pre/post season awards etc.[/quote]

Exactly. Doesn’t Kurt K’s. kid go there? Is he one of the guards of whom you write?

On your point, that’s why you have to get the games. Valvano, coaching Iona, beat #1 Louisville, with 1st round NBA pick, Darrell Griffith(Jeff Ruland was unstoppable). Digger got his job at ND, by beating them while coaching at Fordham. Charlie Yelverton was Fordham’s star, though they may have had another guy make pros. Last name Charles? Going from memory here.

Are you saying PSU is a smaller/minor program? If yes, I kind of agree, but shouldn’t be right now. Step up, take a few lumps, maybe get lucky, and you’ve arrived in the big time. After NIT, why play second fiddle anymore? Ever read the book, “As a Man Thinketh”? Why did Minny get Louisville last year? Neutral site, I think, so maybe tourney, but still. Wisky/Texas, Michigan/UConn.

Kid, I think some of what your saying make sense but the Coaches and the program has been bitten by “false starts” (Crispin & Ivory Sweet Sixteen team and dramatic drop after that) that they took a bit of a conservative approach to this year schedule. Its schedule to get into the Dance if you win the games you supposed to and finish .500 in Big Ten. I do think there might be a bit more of the schedule you want in Battle’s senior year. Its the year to go for broke for sure and I think the Networks will be trying to set up a game like that with PSU.

If you haven’t noticed, lots of top college players don’t play 4 years. I’m not predicting it, I just wouldn’t assume it can’t/won’t happen. If Talor said he was leaving after his junior year, think Ed would have played a tougher sked this year? Boeheim Beilein doesn’t project. He takes chances, risks. Coaches need to do that. Who cares about the past? Remember what Battle said, regarding never winning at the Breslin Center? “Yeah, but I wasn’t on those teams.” He’s fearless as a player, Ed needs to be fearless as a coach. Not stupid, but fearless. Before the season and NIT run, would you have expected winning at Florida? Beating Notre Dame, Michigan, MSU at home, Illinois twice? IMO, Ed needs to stop looking backwards, look at the team he has now, and step up. Boeheim Beilein doesn’t worry about losing to UConn, Duke, etc. Neither should Ed. Minny doesn’t worry playing Louisville, nor does Ryan worry about losing to Texas. I thought PSU was better than UM and Minny last year, but they had more confidence in their ability to play tougher teams.


#17

[quote=“tundra, post:15, topic:99”]True ,maybe, in a VERY narrow/limited way. True that before the advent of TV awards were won by major problems BECAUSE the minor programs were not seen or heard from. An NBA team in the 60’s admitted to selecting their #1 draft pick SOLEY on a preseason magazine preview from Street & Smith’s. They NEVER saw (TV/film/in person) the kid play. EVER. The player turned out to be a flop.
BUT in the present day of cable TV and computers, everybody is seen and heard from. BUT I believe Big Brother (ESPN/SI/Networks) make a concerned effort to hype the major program players over minor program players because it makes good BUSINESS sense. In another thread you made a post that implied MLB teams are businesses and act accordingly. WELL ESPN/SI/Networks are businesses and they are acting accordingly in a BUSINESS sense.
P.S. Davidson was a major program as far back as the 60’s. Remember Lefty Driesell and Mike Malloy. [/quote]

Newspapers and magazines are businesses as well. Before, just as now, newspapers have always pushed the major programs over the smaller programs because it made/makes good business sense.

Shoot, the local rags sometimes push the major programs over their own backyard teams. Back when I dug up the article for Mumma’s pass to the Nittany Lion, the CDT had the game story on the third page of the sports section. The front page of the sports section featured an article on the gymnastics team’s exhibition with the British national squad and a game story on the NC State Notre Dame basketball game.

It doesn’t matter what Davidson was back during the Lefty & Malloy years. Bottom line, Curry would have been invisible if it weren’t for ESPN. Adam Morrison wouldn’t have been nominated or won anything other than the Bulldog of the Year award if it weren’t for ESPN & the other networks.


#18

It’s just the nature of the celebrity beast. JoePa gets mentioned more often than the guy at Texas Tech, it’s just the way it goes. I wouldn’t make much of a conspiracy out of it.


#19

It’s a conspiracy in that anything that is reported by BigBrother (ESPN/SI/Networks) should NOT be accepted as objective sports information. It should be reported as “business advertisement.” BUT Big Brother pushes their preseason lists etc. etc. as “objective sports information” and it is NOT. It is "subjective business sense " HYPE. It’s the nature of the beast.Why anyone would expect anything else from billion/trillion dollar businesses I am totally susprised.
I think Kid’s example proves this point. Battle is indeed as good as Lucas and is clearly better than Reynolds.


#20
[quote="tjb, post:18, topic:99"]It's just the nature of the celebrity beast. JoePa gets mentioned more often than the guy at Texas Tech, it's just the way it goes. I wouldn't make much of a conspiracy out of it.[/quote]

It’s a conspiracy in that anything that is reported by BigBrother (ESPN/SI/Networks) should NOT be accepted as objective sports information. It should be reported as “business advertisement.” BUT Big Brother pushes their preseason lists etc. etc. as “objective sports information” and it is NOT. It is "subjective business sense " HYPE. It’s the nature of the beast.Why anyone would expect anything else from billion/trillion dollar businesses I am totally susprised.
I think Kid’s example proves this point. Battle is indeed as good as Lucas and is clearly better than Reynolds.

The same could be said for any sports newspaper/magazine/website. Is it coincidence or conspiracy that the sports section on the NYTimes is often bundled in with the business section?