PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Starting Lineup and Depth Chart

New season, new coach, new blood. I’ve had enough of the OT’S…practice is just two short weeks away, let’s talk some Penn State hoops.

Projected Starting 5
Frazier
Glover
Marshall
Sasa
Graham

Seeing Meaningful Minutes
Cam first off the bench
Lewis when we switch to the 4 guard set
Oliver spelling Sasa
Travis Spelling Marshall
Alexis and Graham in a rotation

To be honest, a lot of this is guesswork right now. I have no idea what style we’re going to see from PC when we open up to a (hopefully) packed house before the Nebraska game. I’d like to see the 4 + 1 early just to see if it is effective, but as Michigan has shown…that does have its limitations. I also get the sense that PC is going to throw his freshmen in there early to see what he’s got.

Glover is the wildcard to me, I think he’s going to be a nice surprise

[quote=“BleedPSU, post:1, topic:2702”]New season, new coach, new blood. I’ve had enough of the OT’S…practice is just two short weeks away, let’s talk some Penn State hoops.

Projected Starting 5
Frazier
Glover
Marshall
Sasa
Graham

Seeing Meaningful Minutes
Cam first off the bench
Lewis when we switch to the 4 guard set
Oliver spelling Sasa
Travis Spelling Marshall
Alexis and Graham in a rotation

To be honest, a lot of this is guesswork right now. I have no idea what style we’re going to see from PC when we open up to a (hopefully) packed house before the Nebraska game. I’d like to see the 4 + 1 early just to see if it is effective, but as Michigan has shown…that does have its limitations. I also get the sense that PC is going to throw his freshmen in there early to see what he’s got.

Glover is the wildcard to me, I think he’s going to be a nice surprise[/quote]I think we will see quite a bit of Cam as well (at least early in the year )

Tim
Jermaine
Cam
Billy
Jon


Trey
Sasa
Matt or Ross

[quote=“Ron Swanson, post:3, topic:2702”]Tim
Jermaine
Cam
Billy
Jon


Trey
Sasa
Matt or Ross[/quote]

I can’t see Chambers employing an 8 man rotation in year 1. Everyone knows this is a rebuilding year, he’s going to have to see what these guys can do in game situations

[quote=“Ron Swanson, post:3, topic:2702”]Tim
Jermaine
Cam
Billy
Jon


Trey
Sasa
Matt or Ross[/quote]

I agree with this starting lineup.

Was 4+1 a philosophy or a practical necessity? I’ve just assumed the latter, and find discussion of it kind of pointless as a result. Am I wrong? In Wright committed to it and recruiting for it?

I’m just excited to see what the personality of this program will be like. Parkhill overcoached, Knight-style. ED undercoached, Krzyzewski-style. In neither case did we recruit consistently enough to out compete the people we compete against.

If all this sounds like I repeating my mantra that recruiting blows away all other potential influences, I plead guilty to predictability. And you can transfer the same argument to the OT football threads. All the nitpicking of demonstrably capable coaches has the ring of truth, but the biggest problem is that the Jimmies and Joes at OSU and UM are just better than ours.

[quote=“tjb, post:6, topic:2702”]Was 4+1 a philosophy or a practical necessity? I’ve just assumed the latter, and find discussion of it kind of pointless as a result. Am I wrong? In Wright committed to it and recruiting for it?

I’m just excited to see what the personality of this program will be like. Parkhill overcoached, Knight-style. ED undercoached, Krzyzewski-style. In neither case did we recruit consistently enough to out compete the people we compete against.

If all this sounds like I repeating my mantra that recruiting blows away all other potential influences, I plead guilty to predictability. And you can transfer the same argument to the OT football threads. All the nitpicking of demonstrably capable coaches has the ring of truth, but the biggest problem is that the Jimmies and Joes at OSU and UM are just better than ours.[/quote]

ED Krzyewski-style? Generous. Agree on recruiting, but not fair to use UM and OSU as only examples in the Big 10. How about Bo Ryan? IMO, he far overachieves given his talent level.

For the people coming off the bench in my lineup, it is who will get the most minutes, not necessarily in the order they will come off the bench. Playing time can vary depending on how others are playing.

I agree with most of the recruiting stuff that other teams recruit better players, but I always seem to disagree about Wisconsin. I know rankings don’t mean everything, but they do consistently recruit top 150 players. Leurer and Nankivil, Jordan Taylor, Berggren, Bruesewitz and another Taylor… They consistently get 3+ star players. They don’t have the flash, but the kids know how to play basketball.

Wisconsin doesn’t get Duke or UNC talent, but they get the next level. I’ve at least one post in the past that shows how many 3/4 * star players they have.

Starting 5–I think I want to see:

Tim
Trey
Jermaine
Billy
Jon

But like others, I want to see a deep bench with lots of meaningful minutes for everyone. I’m not against a redshirt for one of the 6-11 frosh (or both).

Tim, Trey
Trey, Jermaine, Cam
Jermaine, Cam, Ross, Matt
Billy, Sasa, Jon
Jon, Sasa, Billy, Pete, Pat

I really hope that Sasa’s knee is 100%. I don’t see Pete or Pat playing more than a few minutes per game unless he’s still recovering.

I think a major key for the season will be what Ross and Matt can contribute. We really need someone to be an athletic wing and scoring option. I think Tim will increase his scoring, but he’s not a scorer and I don’t think he’ll ever be one. When you go thru the roster you just have to wonder where the points are going to come from. Right now only Trey and Sasa have ever been major scorers in HS and or college.

Frazier…The rest should be the result of upcoming practice sessions.
PT is wide open!!
Hard to make choices now when I haven’t seen 6 players play and not sure of Sasa’s health.

Here’s the post I was refering to. This is talking about last year’s Wiscy team.

His team starts three 4* star kids and two 3* kids. 1st guy off the bench is a 3* (with other 4*'s on the bench). In the last 10 years he's had 15 4* kids (including an McD AA) while only bringing in two 2* guys. To Bo's credit he does recruit kids that fit his system, but to act like he's got this collection of average ball players is ridiculous. I'm not sure what elite recruiting is but if Bo isn't an elite recruiter, I think he's pretty close.

Link

[quote=“tjb, post:6, topic:2702”]Was 4+1 a philosophy or a practical necessity? I’ve just assumed the latter, and find discussion of it kind of pointless as a result. Am I wrong? In Wright committed to it and recruiting for it?

I’m just excited to see what the personality of this program will be like. Parkhill overcoached, Knight-style. ED undercoached, Krzyzewski-style. In neither case did we recruit consistently enough to out compete the people we compete against.

If all this sounds like I repeating my mantra that recruiting blows away all other potential influences, I plead guilty to predictability. And you can transfer the same argument to the OT football threads. All the nitpicking of demonstrably capable coaches has the ring of truth, but the biggest problem is that the Jimmies and Joes at OSU and UM are just better than ours.[/quote]

Wright mainly recruits a plays a 3 guard line-up and two frontcourt players with no true center. 4+1 was just really mainly played that one year when they had four good guards and limited frontcourt talent to try and steal a few minutes of rest for a big man.

I agree partly with your ‘talent wins’ basic premise, but coaching plays a huge part as well, especially in college BBall. I don’t think that Butler had back to back championship talent, that was a whole lot of coaching. In the end, for PSU to advance to the next level they have to do some of both, they need better talent AND better coaching. The biggest thing I am interested in seeing this year is does PC have a true system that he will run and then try to recruit that system. Biggest issue I always had with Ed is there was no system and recruiting was more whoever he could get. Recruiting certain types of players into the right system makes them better than who they are. Analogous to running a spread offense and getting a QB who fits. I would rather have Denard Robinson than Tom Brady in a running spread offense, but Brady is obviously the better QB.

Two, as pointed out, I hope to see a ten or eleven man rotation to start the year. I want to see Chambers throw everybody into the mix and see what he has and what they can do. If that means they potenially lose a game or two in the pre-season that they could have won with a shorter bench, so be it. I want to see what all these guys can do and then shorten the bench up a little come Big Ten season and start to focus on moving forward.

Third…do we see improvement from players as the year progresses. If PC and the PSU staff can’t coach guys up, another sign of trouble. Not looking to knock of Wiscy and MSU to end the year, but does the team start to find itself and certain gusy start to raise their level of play as the year progresses.

Necessity is the mother of invention, and it’s easier to find good guards than good big men if you are not an elite program yet.

True. I think with Parkhill and Ed D (Dunn I’m not sure of) we tried to find coaches who could get teams to overachieve. In Chambers, we seem to have really gone for a salesman.

Agree. especially in out of conference games. This is one thing that really annoyed me about Ed, how he’s have a bunch of young players but would only go seven deep.

Ties in to the last point. Get them in the game during the early season.

Wisconsin doesn't get Duke or UNC talent, but they get the next level. I've at least one post in the past that shows how many 3/4 * star players they have.

Here’s the post I was refering to. This is talking about last year’s Wiscy team.

His team starts three 4* star kids and two 3* kids. 1st guy off the bench is a 3* (with other 4*'s on the bench). In the last 10 years he's had 15 4* kids (including an McD AA) while only bringing in two 2* guys. To Bo's credit he does recruit kids that fit his system, but to act like he's got this collection of average ball players is ridiculous. I'm not sure what elite recruiting is but if Bo isn't an elite recruiter, I think he's pretty close.

Link

And as I always say, yes they have better talent than PSU but they are way over-performing against expected win totals for that type of talent. They win the amount of games and move far enough in post-season tournaments as teams with all 5 and 4-star guys.

That’s why they get all the credit. Not because they’re better than PSU… they obviously recruit better players than PSU… but because they’re better than the teams who recruit the same type of players they get. Far better, typically.

According to KenPom, Boston U’s two teams under Chambers were 233rd (2011) and 337th (2010) in bench minutes. I don’t know enough about their roster to know if they had much depth, however those numbers on the surface show that he the starters were playing a fair share of the minutes. I think he might mix and match early on to see what he has, but I’d be surprised if we weren’t going with a 8-9 man rotation once the B1G season rolls around.