PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Starting 5

As we’re less than 2 weeks away from the start of the season, thought this might be a time to consider starting 5. I’m going to hedge. For first game, maybe first few, my guess is:

Battle
Frazier
Brooks
DJ
AJ

By the 5th game, my guess is:
Battle
Buie
DJ
Bowman
AJ or Brooks

Could be off, but I think 3 starters will definitely be DJ, Battle, Buie. After that, no firm idea. In early games, Buie off the bench will be convincing enough to win starting spot. Expect some transition baskets, some off steals, finishing with dunks…but not 2pg. :wink:

I’d say 4 starters are set in Battle, Brooks, DJ, and Jones. The 5th could change throughout the year. Probably Frazier at first with Talor at the 2, and potentially Buie sliding in at the 2 and Talor moving to the point at some point. I see no chance of Brooks ever starting at the 5, that’s simply not his game (thought he might get some minutes there at times to buy some time).

Is there anyone who attended the scrimmage that thinks J Graham can defend the 5? I’m curious because if he can’t guard the middle Brooks will be getting a lot of time at the 5.

Battle
Frazier
DJ
Brooks
AJ

Not sure what the rotations will look like, but I would be pretty shocked if this weren’t the group that saw the most minutes initially. It’s going to take quite a performance from one of these young forwards to knock one of the seniors out of those starting positions - even guys with a lot of promise are just going to be a lot rawer initially and struggle to adjust to the level of big 10 play. People like Kid like to overlook such things, he’s had Bowman penciled in as a superstar for months now with no real reason to think so… the same way he was convinced Sasa was going to be freshmen of the year in the league for no reason.

I’ll personally believe it when I see it.

I’ll go with:
Battle
Buie
Brooks
Jackson
Jones

I just don’t think Frazier has that big of an edge experience-wise to keep Buie on the pine. Frazier will be the 1st G off the bench. Oliver as the first big and Woodyard as the first wing.

[quote=“Craftsy21, post:4, topic:1420”]Battle
Frazier
DJ
Brooks
AJ

Not sure what the rotations will look like, but I would be pretty shocked if this weren’t the group that saw the most minutes initially. It’s going to take quite a performance from one of these young forwards to knock one of the seniors out of those starting positions - even guys with a lot of promise are just going to be a lot rawer initially and struggle to adjust to the level of big 10 play. People like Kid like to overlook such things, he’s had Bowman penciled in as a superstar for months now with no real reason to think so… the same way he was convinced Sasa was going to be freshmen of the year in the league for no reason.

I’ll personally believe it when I see it.[/quote]

mjg, are you paying attention to this assault? I’m counterpunching. It’s defensive. :wink: Earth to C21, young forwards? Who mentioned young forwards? And the word, “rawer”? Can you pronounce it? Like drawer with no d? Think maybe “more raw” would work better, or maybe “rare”. You mentioned that your “knowledgeable friends” said a certain frosh isn’t so great. We’ll see. I did not have Tre as a superstar. I heard he’s quite good, great ups, aggressive. Sasa as FOTY? Baloney. Why lie and exaggerate to make your case? Can’t stand up to scrutiny unless you exaggerate my views? You stated your “knowledgeable basketball friends” didn’t think a certain frosh was so good. We’ll see who’s knowledgeable. I’ll go with Ed, “he has the chance to be like Talor” and djones, “…Taran Buie, son of former Harrisburg High great Dan Buie, is as dynamic a player as this place has ever seen.”

You won’t personally believe it when you see it. You’ll state that was your position all along. Buie will have impact like his brother. Some early struggles? Sure. Won’t matter. We’ll see who wants the ball at crunch time(s) and who doesn’t. Get ready to ruuuummmmbbbblllle. :wink:

Battle
Woodyard
Jackson
Brooks
Jones

Later in the season:

Battle
Buie
Woodyard
Jackson/Brooks/Jones for the 4 and 5 spots

I expect ED to go to a smaller lineup since theres 30 minutes or so of experience behind the 3 forwards. Hopefully Oliver and Graham prove me wrong.

[quote=“noobd, post:7, topic:1420”]Battle
Woodyard
Jackson
Brooks
Jones

Later in the season:

Battle
Buie
Woodyard
Jackson/Brooks/Jones for the 4 and 5 spots

I expect ED to go to a smaller lineup since theres 30 minutes or so of experience behind the 3 forwards. Hopefully Oliver and Graham prove me wrong.[/quote]

I agree with this one. I expect Frazier and Buie is be pretty much the same sort of player. Buie is more athletic, but they bring a lot of the same skills to the table.

Battle Frazier DJ Brooks AJ

Not sure what the rotations will look like, but I would be pretty shocked if this weren’t the group that saw the most minutes initially. It’s going to take quite a performance from one of these young forwards to knock one of the seniors out of those starting positions - even guys with a lot of promise are just going to be a lot rawer initially and struggle to adjust to the level of big 10 play. People like Kid like to overlook such things, he’s had Bowman penciled in as a superstar for months now with no real reason to think so… the same way he was convinced Sasa was going to be freshmen of the year in the league for no reason.

I’ll personally believe it when I see it.

mjg, are you paying attention to this assault? I’m counterpunching. It’s defensive. :wink: Earth to C21, young forwards? Who mentioned young forwards? And the word, “rawer”? Can you pronounce it? Like drawer with no d? Think maybe “more raw” would work better, or maybe “rare”. You mentioned that your “knowledgeable friends” said a certain frosh isn’t so great. We’ll see. I did not have Tre as a superstar. I heard he’s quite good, great ups, aggressive. Sasa as FOTY? Baloney. Why lie and exaggerate to make your case? Can’t stand up to scrutiny unless you exaggerate my views? You stated your “knowledgeable basketball friends” didn’t think a certain frosh was so good. We’ll see who’s knowledgeable. I’ll go with Ed, “he has the chance to be like Talor” and djones, “…Taran Buie, son of former Harrisburg High great Dan Buie, is as dynamic a player as this place has ever seen.”

You won’t personally believe it when you see it. You’ll state that was your position all along. Buie will have impact like his brother. Some early struggles? Sure. Won’t matter. We’ll see who wants the ball at crunch time(s) and who doesn’t. Get ready to ruuuummmmbbbblllle. :wink:

Young forward meaning Tre, who you have penciled in as a starter after just 5 games… at… the forward position. Not sure where you’re getting confused here, but I try not to get into your head if I can help it - scary place. By the way, thought you had me IL’d? But yes, focus on a word you clearly understood the meaning of because it’s not part of the queen’s English, that’s really on-topic of you and considering you have never made such a sloppy mistake in your posting career, I really should have known better (see just a few lines later when you repeat the same phrase twice in a 5 sentence span… clearly that was intentional, right?) Is it any wonder you’re the laughing stock of this board?

I said absolutely NOTHING about Taran in that post, nor did I imply anything about him. Yet you just had to bring up your quotes, which I predicted you’d be throwing around for the next 2 months straight like you do EVERYTHING you see or hear once upon a time.

You definitely were extremely high on Sasa last year - maybe I’m confusing the FOTY hype, but you certainly thought highly of him and even admitted it was based on just a handful of minutes you saw of him playing… was that even in person, or just a clip online somewhere? Either way, you’re a joke and were dead wrong - the way you’ve been dead wrong about nearly everything PSU hoops except Talor Battle. So you hang your hat on that while ignoring the other few dozen predictions that were flat out wrong and just continue living in your dream world.

Do I think Taran could knock Frazier out of the starting 5? Sure. He wouldn’t even have to be as good as you say he is to do so, but I’m still not saying it’s a given. With your track record of spotting talent, I think I’ll wait to get a look myself in person before I go making a kidcoyote-type proclamation. Probably an odd concept to you, but I think most will agree that’s generally the best way to assess talent these days.

This all, by the way, begs another question… which is, why do you have Bowman penciled in at the 4? He’s a SG from what I understand.

I’m hoping they are MUCH different players. I want Taran to be much more aggressive offensively, and rumor is his shot looks good. Plus, Buie’s got him by a couple of inches.

I like Frazier but I don’t think he’s going to be able to do all that much until Talor is gone. I think Tim is going to be a nice traditional PG. Not a high scoring guy that looks for his shot. I want to see him break his man down and dish! I want Taran to score.

[quote="NGameday, post:8, topic:1420"]I agree with this one. I expect Frazier and Buie is be pretty much the same sort of player. Buie is more athletic, but they bring a lot of the same skills to the table.[/quote]

I’m hoping they are MUCH different players. I want Taran to be much more aggressive offensively, and rumor is his shot looks good. Plus, Buie’s got him by a couple of inches.

I like Frazier but I don’t think he’s going to be able to do all that much until Talor is gone. I think Tim is going to be a nice traditional PG. Not a high scoring guy that looks for his shot. I want to see him break his man down and dish! I want Taran to score.

I’d agree with that. I’d take a measly 4 points a game out of Frazier if he could provide some solid defensive pressure and dish out 4-5 assists per game.

Imagine if you asked my two year old what the lion says…I think that’s how you pronounce it.

[quote="noobd, post:7, topic:1420"]Battle Woodyard Jackson Brooks Jones

Later in the season:

Battle
Buie
Woodyard
Jackson/Brooks/Jones for the 4 and 5 spots

I expect ED to go to a smaller lineup since theres 30 minutes or so of experience behind the 3 forwards. Hopefully Oliver and Graham prove me wrong.[/quote]

I agree with this one. I expect Frazier and Buie is be pretty much the same sort of player. Buie is more athletic, but they bring a lot of the same skills to the table.

I could agree with this lineup also, but I see some big differences between Buie and Frazier. Mainly, Buie, like Talor, is always looking to beat his man to score. Tim often goes east/west. Taran likes to score in the paint. I didn’t see that in Tim’s game last year. Taran also probably hit 30-40 treys per season in HS. Tim hit 7 in 37 games as a senior. Rebounding, defense, handle, shot, ability to finish, I give the nod to Buie. Now, if Tim’s really improved his shot, maybe that’s changed some.

To me, it’s all handle. If you can handle, you can beat your man to the hole or create your own shot off the dribble. Gottlieb commented on Tim’s handle, difficulty going left. He needs to fix that, otherwise defenders will always force him to go left, and he’ll have difficulty scoring.

Frazier didn’t have a problem getting to the paint last year, it just seemed like once he got in there he didn’t know what to do and just threw a pass to whoever he could even if they weren’t in a scoring position, essentially wasting his penetration. If he has been working with Earl/Crispin on a pull up this summer or can figure out how to finish at the rim his value on offense would skyrocket.

For what it’s worth, I think Brooks/DJ/Jones start at the 3/4/5, but the first sub off the bench will be a third guard for one of the forwards. We’ve done that before. Frazier might start opposite Battle early but if Buie produces he’ll probably be starting after a couple of games.

[quote=“NYJJared, post:15, topic:1420”]Frazier didn’t have a problem getting to the paint last year, it just seemed like once he got in there he didn’t know what to do and just threw a pass to whoever he could even if they weren’t in a scoring position, essentially wasting his penetration. If he has been working with Earl/Crispin on a pull up this summer or can figure out how to finish at the rim his value on offense would skyrocket.

For what it’s worth, I think Brooks/DJ/Jones start at the 3/4/5, but the first sub off the bench will be a third guard for one of the forwards. We’ve done that before. Frazier might start opposite Battle early but if Buie produces he’ll probably be starting after a couple of games.[/quote]

I agree with this. I see us starting with 3 forwards but going to 3 guards quite often, just as a matter of where our depth/talent is right now on the bench.

  1. Can’t have Brooks, Jones, and DJ all starting. Who is coming off the bench to provide any rest for them, or if they get in foul trouble, or just some experience off the bench in the frontcourt. Jones/Brooks/DJ have to play 75 of the 80 minutes at the 4 and 5 positions this year unless Graham exceeds expectations. I think Oliver is more of an outside player than somebody that can body up inside and rebound. Start DJ and Jones and bring Brooks off the bench. If the best line-up that PSU can compete with is all three of them on the floor because nobody steps up in the 3 position, then just use that line-up for a stretch mid way through the 1st half and too close games.

  2. Buie better start by game 3 or 4 and be a big time scorer or this team is not getting to the NCAA (and I know that is far fetched, but it is what everybody is playing for). Somebody has to be the #2 playmaker and scorer behind Battle and average in the mid teens in points if this team is going anywhere. I didn’t see anybody on the roster last year that is going to make the leap, so it better be Buie.

  3. Starting 5 – Battle, Buie, Woodyard/Marshall/Bowman/Oliver, DJ, Jones. Frazier rotates in at the guard positions to give Battle and Buie rest. Brooks mainly rotates for DJ and Jones as the 4/5 position. The core 6 players that get most minutes are Battle/Buie/Frazier/DJ/Brooks/Jones. Then the remaining minutes mainly at the 3 position are split between Woodyard, Marshall, Bowman, or Oliver whoever is best. Maybe Oliver or Graham steal a few minutes at the 4 position if they are good enough and can earn the time.

Can't have Brooks, Jones, and DJ all starting. Who is coming off the bench to provide any rest for them, or if they get in foul trouble, or just some experience off the bench in the frontcourt.

I’ve never heard this type of thinking before. You’re saying that because you’re worried about who might come off the bench, you’d rather START somebody you’re unsure of and bench a guy with experience? ???

I guess if you’re argument was that you think we’re stronger at guard and should play smaller this type of rotation makes sense, but the idea of putting a 4th or even 5th year senior on the bench because you’re worried about the guys behind him makes no sense to me. You play with your best 5, the 5 who give you the best chance to win. If your bench is an issue, it’s going to be exposed one way or another. You don’t get around that by bringing one of your normal starter off the bench, that’s just a puzzling idea to me.

Battle Frazier DJ Brooks AJ

Not sure what the rotations will look like, but I would be pretty shocked if this weren’t the group that saw the most minutes initially. It’s going to take quite a performance from one of these young forwards to knock one of the seniors out of those starting positions - even guys with a lot of promise are just going to be a lot rawer initially and struggle to adjust to the level of big 10 play. People like Kid like to overlook such things, he’s had Bowman penciled in as a superstar for months now with no real reason to think so… the same way he was convinced Sasa was going to be freshmen of the year in the league for no reason.

I’ll personally believe it when I see it.

mjg, are you paying attention to this assault? I’m counterpunching. It’s defensive. :wink: Earth to C21, young forwards? Who mentioned young forwards? And the word, “rawer”? Can you pronounce it? Like drawer with no d? Think maybe “more raw” would work better, or maybe “rare”. You mentioned that your “knowledgeable friends” said a certain frosh isn’t so great. We’ll see. I did not have Tre as a superstar. I heard he’s quite good, great ups, aggressive. Sasa as FOTY? Baloney. Why lie and exaggerate to make your case? Can’t stand up to scrutiny unless you exaggerate my views? You stated your “knowledgeable basketball friends” didn’t think a certain frosh was so good. We’ll see who’s knowledgeable. I’ll go with Ed, “he has the chance to be like Talor” and djones, “…Taran Buie, son of former Harrisburg High great Dan Buie, is as dynamic a player as this place has ever seen.”

You won’t personally believe it when you see it. You’ll state that was your position all along. Buie will have impact like his brother. Some early struggles? Sure. Won’t matter. We’ll see who wants the ball at crunch time(s) and who doesn’t. Get ready to ruuuummmmbbbblllle. :wink:

Yeah, I’m paying attention. I would call this out, but it seems to have died off on its own.

[quote=“Cletus11, post:17, topic:1420”]1. Can’t have Brooks, Jones, and DJ all starting. Who is coming off the bench to provide any rest for them, or if they get in foul trouble, or just some experience off the bench in the frontcourt. Jones/Brooks/DJ have to play 75 of the 80 minutes at the 4 and 5 positions this year unless Graham exceeds expectations. I think Oliver is more of an outside player than somebody that can body up inside and rebound. Start DJ and Jones and bring Brooks off the bench. If the best line-up that PSU can compete with is all three of them on the floor because nobody steps up in the 3 position, then just use that line-up for a stretch mid way through the 1st half and too close games.

  1. Buie better start by game 3 or 4 and be a big time scorer or this team is not getting to the NCAA (and I know that is far fetched, but it is what everybody is playing for). Somebody has to be the #2 playmaker and scorer behind Battle and average in the mid teens in points if this team is going anywhere. I didn’t see anybody on the roster last year that is going to make the leap, so it better be Buie.

  2. Starting 5 – Battle, Buie, Woodyard/Marshall/Bowman/Oliver, DJ, Jones. Frazier rotates in at the guard positions to give Battle and Buie rest. Brooks mainly rotates for DJ and Jones as the 4/5 position. The core 6 players that get most minutes are Battle/Buie/Frazier/DJ/Brooks/Jones. Then the remaining minutes mainly at the 3 position are split between Woodyard, Marshall, Bowman, or Oliver whoever is best. Maybe Oliver or Graham steal a few minutes at the 4 position if they are good enough and can earn the time.[/quote]

Agree entirely, almost. Mid teens per game in points for Buie? Talor, at 10ppg as a frosh, did improve in conference to 12.1ppg. I might be able to see that, but he really hasn’t been the scorer Talor has been. He will get a ton of FTA’s, I’d bet second on the team, probably over 100 if he gets the minutes (Talor got 162 last year). I hope DJ is at 10-11ppg, and maybe Oliver, Tre, Tim, Cam and Jermaine chip in some. I’m not looking for more from AJ and Brooks, but maybe they surprise us.