PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

So Far So Good after 7 Games

[quote="jlr820, post:1, topic:2875"]NCAA is a given next year[/quote]

Yea, I don’t know if you realize how difficult it is to make the NCAA tournament.


why would it be too difficult for for next years team ?

Well in 09 we had 6 current pros and didn’t make it. Last year we had 4 seniors who are current pros and we had to make an amazing run to do it. I really don’t see the players that are there now as better than the players we have had in the past. Maybe the big ten won’t be as strong and hopefully they will prove me wrong, but there are a lot of good teams that do not make it every year.

Is that a yes we will … or a no we won’t ?

I read that to myself and I thought it was clear… No they will not make it.
Believe me I would love them to be there, but I personally do not see it happening.

Yeah … I surely understand why it wouldn’t be seen as a given … nonetheless I can’t myself … tis a given for me

If nothing else this season shows us what we have for the future.

Positives:
-Trey Lewis looks like once he “gets it” he’s going to be a solid player
-Ross Travis is incredibly athletic and shows flashes of “wow”. Legitimately excited to watch him play the next 3 years I’m on campus
-John Graham at the very least looks like a banger who will take up space in the middle and play some D. Useful player
-Jermaine could be a solid role player. I don’t think he has that much upside, but again, solid contributor in the future.

Negatives:
-I don’t like what I see from Sasa. Could be the knee, but he just doesn’t look comfortable.
-Billy is Billy. If he was our 8th man I’d love what he does, but he’s trying to play the role of our 2nd best player and he can’t.
-I don’t think Alexis fits the system. This is purely me speculating, but I bet he transfers after this season. I’m friends with someone who played against him in high school and he said he struggled when any perimeter play was important.
-I already see Tim getting frustrated.

Unless Taylor comes in next year and is really good I don’t see us making the tournament. Incredibly thin inside. But then again it could be really exciting. Think of the lineup next year with Tim, DJ, a Trey Lewis with a year of experience, Ross Travis with a year of experience (2 highlight dunks a night anyone?), and whatever big separates themselves. That could be a pretty competitive B1G team with Jermaine, Billy, and a couple big guys off the bench.

Holy crap, we love to over-analyze. The season is two weeks old, people.

I’m fine with the premature analysis given the alternative topics around Penn State athletics. I do think jlr picked an intersesting day to proclaim NCAA or bust for next season.

I pretty much agree with everything else in this thread as far as team analysis. And it is very hard to make the dance, just ask Virginia Tech. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect(maybe hope?) to be somewhere in the conversation for next season. That’s what I’ll be looking for, somewhere near the bubble. And heck, if we could avoid a Maine type home loss this year, that would be something in my eyes.

Good post 820.
But…I’m not sure I agree with all the conclusions. I don’t think PC will have a set starting 5 or rotation all year. I think he wants to keep the “other 8” all on their toes.
Next year??? Gosh, I don’t know. The incoming players will have to be good.

I was going to say something about the fact that this was a road game like the UK game, but this doesn't really explain the USF game in which we played pretty decent against a BCS opponent. So I'm sticking with the inconsistency angle for now. :p
Hmm, did we play well, or did they just play worse?

If you think you know the answer to one of these rhetorical questions that people love to pose around here, just come out and say it rather than playing the passive aggressive card all the time.

To answer your “question” however, I don’t think we played terrible. I remember the 1-2-2 working really well against a team with bad ball handlers, which is what it’s supposed to do.

We didn’t exactly play perfect and our scoring wasn’t greatly balanced, but down the stretch we got great play and won the type of game that we many times lost under Ed. There aren’t going to be a lot of masterpieces in this style of play, and especially not with all these young guys running it.

[quote=“tundra, post:25, topic:2875”]Good post 820.
But…I’m not sure I agree with all the conclusions. I don’t think PC will have a set starting 5 or rotation all year. I think he wants to keep the “other 8” all on their toes.
Next year??? Gosh, I don’t know. The incoming players will have to be good.[/quote]

So you’re not very optimistic about the future of this group? I think this current team will develop into a pretty nice squad by years end. The fact that the play from the bigs so far hasn’t been very good is obviously a legitimate criticism, but I honestly believe that if we give John Graham some time to develop (which is going to happen being that Chambers uses a deep bench) he’ll turn into a player. You can see it on the court in him- he positions himself well down low and works very hard, he just can’t finish. I think that’s just a young kid adjusting to the speed of the game. By the end of his career John Graham will be averaging over 10 points a game, and I would be willing to wager that if anybody disagrees 8) Combine him with Taylor coming in next year, development from Sasa, Ackerman, and/or Alexis, and I think we’ll be just fine.

[quote="Craftsy21, post:18, topic:2875"]I was going to say something about the fact that this was a road game like the UK game, but this doesn't really explain the USF game in which we played pretty decent against a BCS opponent. So I'm sticking with the inconsistency angle for now. :p[/quote] Hmm, did we play well, or did they just play worse?

If you think you know the answer to one of these rhetorical questions that people love to pose around here, just come out and say it rather than playing the passive aggressive card all the time.

To answer your “question” however, I don’t think we played terrible. I remember the 1-2-2 working really well against a team with bad ball handlers, which is what it’s supposed to do.

We didn’t exactly play perfect and our scoring wasn’t greatly balanced, but down the stretch we got great play and won the type of game that we many times lost under Ed. There aren’t going to be a lot of masterpieces in this style of play, and especially not with all these young guys running it.

I don’t think scoring 17 points in the first half is playing “not terrible” Craftsy, I really don’t. In the three games that we have played outside of the BJC, we have scored 15, 17, 10 points in the first half. That’s abysmal.

There’s some talent here, but we don’t have a consistent shooter on the squad outside of Timmy. This is why we need to space out scholarships…to avoid a situation like this.

Good post 820. But..........I'm not sure I agree with all the conclusions. I don't think PC will have a set starting 5 or rotation all year. I think he wants to keep the "other 8" all on their toes. Next year????????????? Gosh, I don't know. The incoming players will have to be good.

So you’re not very optimistic about the future of this group? I think this current team will develop into a pretty nice squad by years end. The fact that the play from the bigs so far hasn’t been very good is obviously a legitimate criticism, but I honestly believe that if we give John Graham some time to develop (which is going to happen being that Chambers uses a deep bench) he’ll turn into a player. You can see it on the court in him- he positions himself well down low and works very hard, he just can’t finish. I think that’s just a young kid adjusting to the speed of the game. By the end of his career John Graham will be averaging over 10 points a game, and I would be willing to wager that if anybody disagrees 8) Combine him with Taylor coming in next year, development from Sasa, Ackerman, and/or Alexis, and I think we’ll be just fine.

U Serious ? What are we talking ? I love the enthusiam but this team while young is not very talented at all. Bringing in DJ, Akosa,Brandon next year will help but we desperately need to get a bigman or 2 REAL soon.
Good post 820. But..........I'm not sure I agree with all the conclusions. I don't think PC will have a set starting 5 or rotation all year. I think he wants to keep the "other 8" all on their toes. Next year????????????? Gosh, I don't know. The incoming players will have to be good.

So you’re not very optimistic about the future of this group? I think this current team will develop into a pretty nice squad by years end. The fact that the play from the bigs so far hasn’t been very good is obviously a legitimate criticism, but I honestly believe that if we give John Graham some time to develop (which is going to happen being that Chambers uses a deep bench) he’ll turn into a player. You can see it on the court in him- he positions himself well down low and works very hard, he just can’t finish. I think that’s just a young kid adjusting to the speed of the game. By the end of his career John Graham will be averaging over 10 points a game, and I would be willing to wager that if anybody disagrees 8) Combine him with Taylor coming in next year, development from Sasa, Ackerman, and/or Alexis, and I think we’ll be just fine.

329…I can’t predict the future. Some of the other players (besides Frazier) have degrees of upsides. But, at this time it’s hard to tell who will grow and mature and who will get replaced by new recruits. BUT, I really do enjoy watching this team. Their “likeability” is very high.

[quote="Craftsy21, post:18, topic:2875"]I was going to say something about the fact that this was a road game like the UK game, but this doesn't really explain the USF game in which we played pretty decent against a BCS opponent. So I'm sticking with the inconsistency angle for now. :p[/quote] Hmm, did we play well, or did they just play worse?

If you think you know the answer to one of these rhetorical questions that people love to pose around here, just come out and say it rather than playing the passive aggressive card all the time.

To answer your “question” however, I don’t think we played terrible. I remember the 1-2-2 working really well against a team with bad ball handlers, which is what it’s supposed to do.

We didn’t exactly play perfect and our scoring wasn’t greatly balanced, but down the stretch we got great play and won the type of game that we many times lost under Ed. There aren’t going to be a lot of masterpieces in this style of play, and especially not with all these young guys running it.

I don’t think scoring 17 points in the first half is playing “not terrible” Craftsy, I really don’t. In the three games that we have played outside of the BJC, we have scored 15, 17, 10 points in the first half. That’s abysmal.

There’s some talent here, but we don’t have a consistent shooter on the squad outside of Timmy. This is why we need to space out scholarships…to avoid a situation like this.

Playing at BC will tell us something. BC stinks, so if we can’t score against them in the first half, we will likely be in trouble every time we play on the road. We could really use someone to step us as a consistent second option – like Brooks did last season. It seems like we have a lot of guys who can step up here and there, but none have done it consistently. It is tough to get started in games when you are searching for that option the entire first half. I’d like to see Trey become that guy. I don’t think it will be Billy. I think Billy is a guy who could get hot for a game or two here and there – like DJ would break out for a 20+ night every so often. Who knows though. Maybe he just needs that one game where he hits about 6 threes to gain confidence and he takes off from there.

This is the way I see it. I like the idea of Trey or Travis getting more of a feel for things and being able to score in a pinch, but it might take a while.

At some point yesterday we needed to get the ball low and try to get fouled and get to the line. If only to slow the momentum.

For the most part, though, we didn’t seem to really panic, and I liked our spacing throughout again. The weird thing was that if we made a few shots in the second half of the first half, we could have been in that thing.

** This should have read “I thought we should get the ball low …” One thing I learned as an honorary assistant all those years ago was how little I know about basketball, and how much the coaches do about every possible situation. I’m sure they were doing all kinds of things to staunch the flow.

[quote="Craftsy21, post:18, topic:2875"]I was going to say something about the fact that this was a road game like the UK game, but this doesn't really explain the USF game in which we played pretty decent against a BCS opponent. So I'm sticking with the inconsistency angle for now. :p[/quote] Hmm, did we play well, or did they just play worse?

If you think you know the answer to one of these rhetorical questions that people love to pose around here, just come out and say it rather than playing the passive aggressive card all the time.

To answer your “question” however, I don’t think we played terrible. I remember the 1-2-2 working really well against a team with bad ball handlers, which is what it’s supposed to do.

We didn’t exactly play perfect and our scoring wasn’t greatly balanced, but down the stretch we got great play and won the type of game that we many times lost under Ed. There aren’t going to be a lot of masterpieces in this style of play, and especially not with all these young guys running it.

I don’t think scoring 17 points in the first half is playing “not terrible” Craftsy, I really don’t. In the three games that we have played outside of the BJC, we have scored 15, 17, 10 points in the first half. That’s abysmal.

There’s some talent here, but we don’t have a consistent shooter on the squad outside of Timmy. This is why we need to space out scholarships…to avoid a situation like this.

Let’s not focus so much on the points. You only have to score 1 more point than the other team to win… obviously.

How did we actually play? I don’t think you can say we played terribly against USF. Sure, you can always shoot better and turn it over less. But this isn’t a game where perfection is attainable and most games come down to overcoming whatever you happen to be struggling with during that particular game.

This year shooting is going to be our burden. If we take care of the ball on our end and force some turnovers on defense, we can win some games. But we are never going to be scoring 90 points per game. We don’t play fast enough and we don’t score it efficiently enough, so let’s get off this idea of ‘more points’ as the only way of judging this team right now. Scoring will improve as these young guys continue adjusting to this level of play. None of them look like Jimmers or Kembas, but we could have a few Jeff Brooks type of guys in the mix already. Let’s be a bit more patient.

EVERY scorer knows to first attempt to score on the inside…if not …THEN try to get to the line…THEN once you are “in the flow” look for your outside shots.
Same sequence applies to team scoring!!

Look, this is going to be a 2 to 3 year plan before we are respectable. We will have to be patient and allow Chambers to undo what has been done and get his own players in the system. Now as for so far so good…I don’t think so. When the only 2 legitimate teams you have played hand you your hat in the opening 8 minutes, that is a little south of -so far so good. It is a little preview of our B-10 season which might be so far, not so good. However, I am willing to wait it out.

I hate to jump into the pro/anti Ed debate, but I don’t think Chambers needs to “undo” anything, at least regarding basketball. Yes, the cupboard is bare because 4 of 5 starters graduated. Yes, he needs to get “his” players into the system (although it looks like Timmy, Trey, Ross, and Matt all fit his system just fine). But we went to the NCAA’s last year!! What needs to be undone?

But in general, I agree. This will be a 2-3 year process. This year, and probably next year at least, will be challenging.

Look, this is going to be a 2 to 3 year plan before we are respectable. [b]We will have to be patient and allow Chambers to undo what has been done and get his own players in the system. [/b]Now as for so far so good..........I don't think so. When the only 2 legitimate teams you have played hand you your hat in the opening 8 minutes, that is a little south of -so far so good. It is a little preview of our B-10 season which might be so far, not so good. However, I am willing to wait it out.

I hate to jump into the pro/anti Ed debate, but I don’t think Chambers needs to “undo” anything, at least regarding basketball. Yes, the cupboard is bare because 4 of 5 starters graduated. Yes, he needs to get “his” players into the system (although it looks like Timmy, Trey, Ross, and Matt all fit his system just fine). But we went to the NCAA’s last year!! What needs to be undone?

But in general, I agree. This will be a 2-3 year process. This year, and probably next year at least, will be challenging.


Cupboard isn’t bare just because the kids are young. Trey Lewis is talented, John Graham is talented, Ross Travis is talented. They are just raw and basically everybody is learning this new system on the fly so basically we have a bunch of fiest year players. But to say the cupboard is bare is not the case. We have talent on the roster we just need it to gel into a Pat Chambers style team.
[quote="hoopla, post:36, topic:2875"]Look, this is going to be a 2 to 3 year plan before we are respectable. [b]We will have to be patient and allow Chambers to undo what has been done and get his own players in the system. [/b]Now as for so far so good..........I don't think so. When the only 2 legitimate teams you have played hand you your hat in the opening 8 minutes, that is a little south of -so far so good. It is a little preview of our B-10 season which might be so far, not so good. However, I am willing to wait it out.[/quote]

I hate to jump into the pro/anti Ed debate, but I don’t think Chambers needs to “undo” anything, at least regarding basketball. Yes, the cupboard is bare because 4 of 5 starters graduated. Yes, he needs to get “his” players into the system (although it looks like Timmy, Trey, Ross, and Matt all fit his system just fine). But we went to the NCAA’s last year!! What needs to be undone?

But in general, I agree. This will be a 2-3 year process. This year, and probably next year at least, will be challenging.


Cupboard isn’t bare just because the kids are young. Trey Lewis is talented, John Graham is talented, Ross Travis is talented. They are just raw and basically everybody is learning this new system on the fly so basically we have a bunch of fiest year players. But to say the cupboard is bare is not the case. We have talent on the roster we just need it to gel into a Pat Chambers style team.

Oops, yes you’re right. My bad. Poor choice of words on my part. I agree that there’s a good deal of potential available, but the players need to develop.

A lot of this discussion is moot if PSU could hit the shots they are taking (which generally have been good shots).

This is a bad shooting team right now. Is it possible, for the sake of discussion, Chambers has this team worried too much about the Attitude Club and not enough on shooting?