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Roller coaster Penn St hopes to climb back - Yahoo

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-pennst-dechellis

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. (AP)—The roller coaster that is the Penn State men’s basketball team wants to climb back to respectability.

After last year’s 11-20 campaign, most anything will be an improvement for a program that tumbled from the 2008-09 NIT championship back to Big Ten also-ran status thanks in part to a spate of close losses. The Nittany Lions lost 11 games by six points or less or in overtime last year.

Eighth-year coach Ed DeChellis engrained his team with an offseason mantra he hopes will carry over when the season tips off Nov. 12 against Lehigh: “One more play.”

Ronald J commented:

He deserves it. He has built up a previously inept program to the point that they are more than competitve in the Big Ten. Excellent recruiter.

Someone is drinking ED’s kool aid.

No! Not at all! Why is it every time someone compliments DeChellis on turning around the program or recruiting good athletes, the answer is always “he’s drinking kool-aid, he’s drinking kool-aid”. Let me ask you this? Is it possible to give coach credit without being deemed a kool-aid drinker?

If the players on PSU’s team thought like you, PSU wouldn’t have had a year like 2008-2009. In this Battle’s and his senior classmates final year, I truly hope every step of the way isn’t a friggin kool-aid pointing finger contest. We want to do well, not convince each other that coach needs to be fired at the first sign of trouble. DeChellis is one of the hardest working coaches in college sports. He may not be the best strategist or give the best press conference, but he’s hard working and has to an extent (that can be debated) turned PSU basketball from an inept program to a program that more times than not has been a tough team to beat in the BigTen.

This is the last year of BigTen basketball. Next year it will be the BigTen Twelve. Lets start this year with good karma. After the season is over, you can go on your kool-aid crusade if you want to. But during the season, lets stand united behind DeChellis, Battle, and co and hope for another special season like 2008-09.

[quote="noobd, post:1, topic:1405"]Someone is drinking ED's kool aid.[/quote]

No! Not at all! Why is it every time someone compliments DeChellis on turning around the program or recruiting good athletes, the answer is always “he’s drinking kool-aid, he’s drinking kool-aid”. Let me ask you this? Is it possible to give coach credit without being deemed a kool-aid drinker?

If the players on PSU’s team thought like you, PSU wouldn’t have had a year like 2008-2009. In this Battle’s and his senior classmates final year, I truly hope every step of the way isn’t a friggin kool-aid pointing finger contest. We want to do well, not convince each other that coach needs to be fired at the first sign of trouble. DeChellis is one of the hardest working coaches in college sports. He may not be the best strategist or give the best press conference, but he’s hard working and has to an extent (that can be debated) turned PSU basketball from an inept program to a program that more times than not has been a tough team to beat in the BigTen.

This is the last year of BigTen basketball. Next year it will be the BigTen Twelve. Lets start this year with good karma. After the season is over, you can go on your kool-aid crusade if you want to. But during the season, lets stand united behind DeChellis, Battle, and co and hope for another special season like 2008-09.

Ok Champ. I’ll buy your logic that this is NOT exactly “fire Ed” time. BUT, let’s “get real.” The lack of REALITY is what upsets many posters. What data do you have to support “DeChellis is one of the hardest working coaches in college sports” quote?? ??? Do you witness Ed’s job performance every day?? ??? To rank Ed work habits to all college coaches in all sports at all schools is more than unreal…it’s…(fill in the blank)
Ed has made close to a million dollars a year for 8 years. I would expect him to work hard. I would expect ALL college coaches to WORK HARD. I don’t think anyone on this board has attacked Ed for “not working hard.”

[quote="noobd, post:1, topic:1405"]Someone is drinking ED's kool aid.[/quote]

No! Not at all! Why is it every time someone compliments DeChellis on turning around the program or recruiting good athletes, the answer is always “he’s drinking kool-aid, he’s drinking kool-aid”. Let me ask you this? Is it possible to give coach credit without being deemed a kool-aid drinker?

If the players on PSU’s team thought like you, PSU wouldn’t have had a year like 2008-2009. In this Battle’s and his senior classmates final year, I truly hope every step of the way isn’t a friggin kool-aid pointing finger contest. We want to do well, not convince each other that coach needs to be fired at the first sign of trouble. DeChellis is one of the hardest working coaches in college sports. He may not be the best strategist or give the best press conference, but he’s hard working and has to an extent (that can be debated) turned PSU basketball from an inept program to a program that more times than not has been a tough team to beat in the BigTen.

This is the last year of BigTen basketball. Next year it will be the BigTen Twelve. Lets start this year with good karma. After the season is over, you can go on your kool-aid crusade if you want to. But during the season, lets stand united behind DeChellis, Battle, and co and hope for another special season like 2008-09.

Ok Champ. I’ll buy your logic that this is NOT exactly “fire Ed” time. BUT, let’s “get real.” The lack of REALITY is what upsets many posters. What data do you have to support “DeChellis is one of the hardest working coaches in college sports” quote?? ??? Do you witness Ed’s job performance every day?? ??? To rank Ed work habits to all college coaches in all sports at all schools is more than unreal…it’s…(fill in the blank)
Ed has made close to a million dollars a year for 8 years. I would expect him to work hard. I would expect ALL college coaches to WORK HARD. I don’t think anyone on this board has attacked Ed for “not working hard.”

I’m not selling anything. This is just basic common courtesy. DeChellis is hard working. He puts everything into the team. Some coaches do other stuff and entertain and what not, but DeChellis runs a clean program with good student athletes. PSU basketball doesn’t have the best athletes, but they have bought into the system and become better athletes. Now is the time that they are in the gym getting physically and mentally ready for the season.

The last thing these players need is to read about how people complimenting DeChellis are drinking kool-aid. It’s an aged old war between the glass-half-full thinkers and the glass-half-empty thinkers. I have no problem if you criticize coach and you support your argument. Saying someone is a kool-aid drinker does not win an argument and it doesn’t get us anywhere.

This is going to be a knock down drag out season. We have many returning seniors and a veteran group this season. And yeah last season I said we were a young team. We were. Now we are a veteran team with leaders. Penn St. is just as good as Michigan St or any BigTen team. The games will be played and the standings will determine who the best BigTen teams are.

OK…BETTER. I will not “cool aid nitpick” some statements in your post.

I think all posters “see your point.”…But, please keep reality in sight.
Maybe back read Ed goals for the program when he was hired. Let’s make “winning” a goal/hope and not just more times than not being a tough team to beat.

[quote author=noobd link=topic=1432.msg31785#msg31785 date=1287456408]
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-pennst-dechellis

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. (AP)—The roller coaster that is the Penn State men’s basketball team wants to climb back to respectability.

After last year’s 11-20 campaign, most anything will be an improvement for a program that tumbled from the 2008-09 NIT championship back to Big Ten also-ran status thanks in part to a spate of close losses. The Nittany Lions lost 11 games by six points or less or in overtime last year.

Eighth-year coach Ed DeChellis engrained his team with an offseason mantra he hopes will carry over when the season tips off Nov. 12 against Lehigh: “One more play.”

Is anyone able to develop a graph illustrating our overall and conference record for each year since joining the Big Ten to see if they really look like a roller coaster?

Bulldog------

Just Goggle “Ed DeChellis”…then pick Wikipedia…It gives the PSU records (overall and conference) very clearly.
I’m not allowed to post Ed’s record. :o

[quote=“tundra, post:7, topic:1405”]Bulldog------

Just Goggle “Ed DeChellis”…then pick Wikipedia…It gives the PSU records (overall and conference) very clearly.
I’m not allowed to post Ed’s record. :o[/quote]

Save the drama. You are allowed to post anything you want. Post his record. Lets talk about it. Is it possible to discuss it on here without using the world kool-aid?

[quote="tundra, post:7, topic:1405"]Bulldog------

Just Goggle “Ed DeChellis”…then pick Wikipedia…It gives the PSU records (overall and conference) very clearly.
I’m not allowed to post Ed’s record. :o[/quote]

Save the drama. You are allowed to post anything you want. Post his record. Lets talk about it. Is it possible to discuss it on here without using the world kool-aid?


OK…thanks…BUT, it’s not the time to discuss record review now. The topic is best served toward the end/at the end of the season. The preseason is for hope and anticipation…!!

[quote="noobd, post:1, topic:1405"][url=http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-pennst-dechellis]http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-pennst-dechellis[/url]

[quote]STATE COLLEGE, Pa. (AP)—The roller coaster that is the Penn State men’s basketball team wants to climb back to respectability.

After last year’s 11-20 campaign, most anything will be an improvement for a program that tumbled from the 2008-09 NIT championship back to Big Ten also-ran status thanks in part to a spate of close losses. The Nittany Lions lost 11 games by six points or less or in overtime last year.

Eighth-year coach Ed DeChellis engrained his team with an offseason mantra he hopes will carry over when the season tips off Nov. 12 against Lehigh: “One more play.”[/quote]

Is anyone able to develop a graph illustrating our overall and conference record for each year since joining the Big Ten to see if they really look like a roller coaster?[/quote]

Sounds like something I do regularly

Hate to disrupt the constructive conversation between you two (Champ/tundra) but as fans we should support ED and the boys in their campaign to make the Dance this season. Stop the “kool aid” comments, I agree. But also realize Champ that message boards come in all shapes, sizes and forms with the people and opinions to match them. If you want to find a board that is all sunny and good 100% of the time, you will die trying.

With all that said, I will try and keep the vibes positive and I hope my brethren on this board do the same.

As for the roller coaster comment…nowadays you have one bad, one good followed by another bad and that’s considered a “roller coaster” I guess. ED’s graph sort of reminds me more of this roller coaster I went on at Great Adventure during my youth. A lot of little ups and downs, until the grand finale big climb to the bigger decent. Today’s roller coasters have more big ups and big downs than in the past, so today’s youth would think that you need more than one climb/decent to be a true “roller coaster”. Now if you include the Parkhill/Dunn portion of the graph, then we’re talking about a real “roller coaster”.

Man, I wish my local amusement park was open today. :slight_smile:

IMO, what’s happened is not important. I think Ed screwed up with some of his recruits. So what? Now is now. Maybe the roller coaster becomes a rocket ship. John Wooden, as UCLA coach, lost 15 times to Pete Newell’s Cal team before beating them. What did those 15 consecutive losses tell you about Wooden as a coach? Nada. (Did I just compare Ed to John Wooden? :o)

Let the season begin! ;D

I still support Ed, but this is a big year for him - mostly now because of the class setup he has, with so many seniors and so many youngsters.

There’s very little doubt next year is a step backwards from this year, being that we’ll be so young and inexperienced, but it’s important to see how good we are this year to know where a step backwards might leave us. To get a look at what exactly we have coming up through the system after this class of guys who have been here (seemingly) forever leaves us.

This was always going to be Ed’s make or break year in my opinion, since the day we brought Talor in. Things haven’t all gone in his favor with injuries and transfers, but it’s time to put up or shut up. I think he’s done an admirable job, but if he can’t put together a good season this year I’m not convinced he’s the guy who can ever get us to the tournament.

Does that mean I think we’ll dance this year? Not really. It’s a possibility I believe, but I’m about 30/70 leaning towards us missing it. But I’m ready to support the hell out of this squad and thank them for their hard work the last 4-5 years. And that includes Ed, I do believe he’s doing almost all he can with this program - it just might not be enough. But I hope I’m wrong, I like a lot of what he does (and dislike a lot also, but that’s okay :slight_smile: ).

I agree, but it’s either that or knee-jerk kool-aid spamming. the glass-half-empties feel the need to excersize their right to show coach’s record, as if people are unaware of the coach’s record, as if the record data proves that coach doesn’t deserve to be here or some theory. They can present all the fact they want, but the facts are the PSU is not a traditional college basketball power and play in arguably the toughest conference in America. So coach may have a sub-500 conference record in the BigTen, but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t improved a program that besides one or two years, was consistently at or near the bottom. If you compare PSU’s current roster to PSU’s roster from 2001-2003, the talent and competitiveness of the roster far exceeds what was there when coach came onboard. After the Crispins left, we had very little chance to win for 2 years. Now we have a good chance to win. Big difference.

Supporting ED and supporting the team are two different things. I want the team to do as well as possible, but I do not think ED is the right man for the job. How dare I not support the coach, I must be ANTI-PSU!! ::slight_smile:

Apparently posting his record is irrelevant since “being competitive” is the expectation by some here. The conference is SO tough that its okay that ED has spent 7 years just to have the team compete. Disregard all those losses, it just matters that PSU isn’t being blown out of the barn!

“Fire ED at the first sign of trouble” - Is that a joke? FIRST sign of TROUBLE? Oh boy.

Maybe in another 5 years this program will be NCAA worthy, I mean 12 years is usually how long it takes to build a program that is NCAA ready.

[quote="tundra, post:9, topic:1405"]OK....thanks.................BUT, it's not the time to discuss record review now. The topic is best served toward the end/at the end of the season. The preseason is for hope and anticipation...........!![/quote]

I agree, but it’s either that or knee-jerk kool-aid spamming. the glass-half-empties feel the need to excersize their right to show coach’s record, as if people are unaware of the coach’s record, as if the record data proves that coach doesn’t deserve to be here or some theory. They can present all the fact they want, but the facts are the PSU is not a traditional college basketball power and play in arguably the toughest conference in America. So coach may have a sub-500 conference record in the BigTen, but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t improved a program that besides one or two years, was consistently at or near the bottom. If you compare PSU’s current roster to PSU’s roster from 2001-2003, the talent and competitiveness of the roster far exceeds what was there when coach came onboard. After the Crispins left, we had very little chance to win for 2 years. Now we have a good chance to win. Big difference.

In fairness, I thought the roster was fine when ED got here. Not sure why guys like DfRS and Brandon Cameron lerft early. And then Jagla left with a year left. Seemed like the entire roster turned over that first season. And there wasn’t any depth to recruiting for years – we had to keep recruiting seniors only for a bit. So I get why things have taken so long. But really, this has to be a big year. If not, then when? Next year, if everyone eligible returns, we’ll have essentially one senior (Woodyard), one junior (Frazier), six sophomores (Marshall, Buie, Bowman, Graham, Borovnjak and Oliver) and five freshmen (Alexis, Ackerman, Lewis, Travis and TBD). Granted three of the sophomores would be upperclassmen academically (including 4th year sophomore Oliver). But they still might have limited game experience depending on their roles this season. Now is the time.

I never said you or anyone else is anti-PSU. I understand how you must feel, but why not try to channel your rage into something positive.

[quote=“noobd, post:16, topic:1405”]Apparently posting his record is irrelevant since “being competitive” is the expectation by some here. The conference is SO tough that its okay that ED has spent 7 years just to have the team compete. Disregard all those losses, it just matters that PSU isn’t being blown out of the barn!

“Fire ED at the first sign of trouble” - Is that a joke? FIRST sign of TROUBLE? Oh boy.

Maybe in another 5 years this program will be NCAA worthy, I mean 12 years is usually how long it takes to build a program that is NCAA ready.[/quote]

You’re making excuses. “we’ll be good in 5 years… it takes 12 years to get good under PSU / Ed standards” you and some may get a laugh out of it, but it’s really a tough way to live. You have the luxury to say we’ll be good in 5 years. But Battle and Jones and company have 1 chance left. That’s it. The now is their only chance. Rather then set yourself up for disaster, why not live in the now and join reality like the rest of us that realize this season is upon us, not a season 5 years down the road. When you say that you are basically bashing the entire team and are suggesting that they have no chance this season, which can be perceived as anti-PSU. (we know you’re not anti-PSU 5 years from now, but if you don’t support the current coach or the current team, how else can you be categorized? that’s not a supporting stance)

Well said. I think you hit it right on the nail. Now is the time…not 5 years from now…not when Ed has retired from coaching. That’s down the road. We aren’t there yet. This is a very important season, clearly. The last season of the 11-team BigTen. Battle and many seniors last chance. DeChellis obviously is feeling pressure to win thanks to the glass-half-empties. PSHoops shouldn’t be a kool-aid spamming fest, but it has and can be until we start working towards a common purpose. (myself included)

[quote="tundra, post:9, topic:1405"]OK....thanks.................BUT, it's not the time to discuss record review now. The topic is best served toward the end/at the end of the season. The preseason is for hope and anticipation...........!![/quote]

I agree, but it’s either that or knee-jerk kool-aid spamming. the glass-half-empties feel the need to excersize their right to show coach’s record, as if people are unaware of the coach’s record, as if the record data proves that coach doesn’t deserve to be here or some theory. They can present all the fact they want, but the facts are the PSU is not a traditional college basketball power and play in arguably the toughest conference in America. So coach may have a sub-500 conference record in the BigTen, but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t improved a program that besides one or two years, was consistently at or near the bottom. If you compare PSU’s current roster to PSU’s roster from 2001-2003, the talent and competitiveness of the roster far exceeds what was there when coach came onboard. After the Crispins left, we had very little chance to win for 2 years. Now we have a good chance to win. Big difference.

In fairness, I thought the roster was fine when ED got here. Not sure why guys like DfRS and Brandon Cameron lerft early. And then Jagla left with a year left. Seemed like the entire roster turned over that first season. And there wasn’t any depth to recruiting for years – we had to keep recruiting seniors only for a bit. So I get why things have taken so long. But really, this has to be a big year. If not, then when? Next year, if everyone eligible returns, we’ll have essentially one senior (Woodyard), one junior (Frazier), six sophomores (Marshall, Buie, Bowman, Graham, Borovnjak and Oliver) and five freshmen (Alexis, Ackerman, Lewis, Travis and TBD). Granted three of the sophomores would be upperclassmen academically (including 4th year sophomore Oliver). But they still might have limited game experience depending on their roles this season. Now is the time.

I think it will be better, and I’m getting more optimistic(caveat: this happens every fall). As much as I’m a fan of Buie, it was good to read djones, cause you can never tell how quickly someone can adjust to the college game(see Talor’s 1st 10 for idea). But if guys can’t stop him in practice, that’s a great sign. Frazier too. To me, that means a few more wins over last year, just on those two. Maybe Wisky, UM, Illinois, Purdue become wins. That’d be 7 wins. The growth of the 4 seniors will help. IMO, if 3 newbies can really chip in, i.e., Oliver, Bowman, Cam and Marshall, it should be good for a bit more. By chip in, I mean more than 2-3 mpg, meaningful minutes from maybe 2 of them. Last year, I liked Tim, Chris, Talor in at same time. Tim at pg took the double team off Talor. This year, Tim, Taran and Talor will be murder to cover, esp if Tim’s at the point. You can’t double anybody who’s not pg, not at guard, not really. And if Tim’s not in, Taran will create issues, so they won’t double Talor. IMO, the biggest issue last year on “O” was in the halfcourt, passing around the arc til 3 seconds were left. I see that changing big time. Lots of penetration and kickouts.

I liked this from Kirkpatrick, "Called Tre Bowman and Taran Buie “very athletic guards” and said Jonathan Graham “really has the ability to block shots down there.” (from bsd) and this from Graham, “Believes fellow freshman Taran Buie will be a big contributor this season.” (bsd)