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#1

How effing pathetic is it that WRESTLING, WOMEN’S BASKETBALL and WOMEN’S VOLLEYBALL have more ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS than men’s basketball?

Hell, ALL THREE individually are just one short of twice the mark.

Thanks, Mr. Curley, for your “vision”.


#2

[quote=“NationBuilder, post:1, topic:997”]How effing pathetic is it that WRESTLING, WOMEN’S BASKETBALL and WOMEN’S VOLLEYBALL have more ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS than men’s basketball?

Hell, ALL THREE individually are just one short of twice the mark.

Thanks, Mr. Curley, for your “vision”.[/quote]

What exactly does that have to do with Curley’s vision?

The answer goes to what the fundamental problem is with Penn State basketball. The school and the area is NOT exactly what you would call a hotbed for men’s basketball. It is for all three of the other sports.


#3
[quote="NationBuilder, post:1, topic:997"]How effing pathetic is it that WRESTLING, WOMEN'S BASKETBALL and WOMEN'S VOLLEYBALL have more ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS than men's basketball?

Hell, ALL THREE individually are just one short of twice the mark.

Thanks, Mr. Curley, for your “vision”.[/quote]

What exactly does that have to do with Curley’s vision?

The answer goes to what the fundamental problem is with Penn State basketball. The school and the area is NOT exactly what you would call a hotbed for men’s basketball. It is for all three of the other sports.

He accepts and allows it to be treated as a fourth-tier sport. BOOM.

He is at the top. He is responsible. Coach DeChellis should have NEVER had to have asked for the BASIC facility upgrades (video room, offices, recruiting lounge, locker rooms, etc.) to keep pace even with the most meager “major” conference programs.


#4
[quote="NationBuilder, post:1, topic:997"]How effing pathetic is it that WRESTLING, WOMEN'S BASKETBALL and WOMEN'S VOLLEYBALL have more ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS than men's basketball?

Hell, ALL THREE individually are just one short of twice the mark.

Thanks, Mr. Curley, for your “vision”.[/quote]

What exactly does that have to do with Curley’s vision?

The answer goes to what the fundamental problem is with Penn State basketball. The school and the area is NOT exactly what you would call a hotbed for men’s basketball. It is for all three of the other sports.

He accepts and allows it to be treated as a fourth-tier sport. BOOM.

He is at the top. He is responsible. Coach DeChellis should have NEVER had to have asked for the BASIC facility upgrades (video room, offices, recruiting lounge, locker rooms, etc.) to keep pace even with the most meager “major” conference programs.

How the hoops team is treated vis-a-vis the other sports on campus is irrelevant. How it is treated in comparison to their peers is. The fact that the other sports have managed to dig up endowed scholarships should be a source of pride for both them and Curley. That has NOTHING to do with how the basketball program is supported. They are competing against other Big Ten schools and should be judged against them, not against the other athletic programs on campus.


#5
[quote="NationBuilder, post:1, topic:997"]How effing pathetic is it that WRESTLING, WOMEN'S BASKETBALL and WOMEN'S VOLLEYBALL have more ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS than men's basketball?

Hell, ALL THREE individually are just one short of twice the mark.

Thanks, Mr. Curley, for your “vision”.[/quote]

What exactly does that have to do with Curley’s vision?

what exactly is Curley’s vision? We’re all still eagerly waiting to find out.

So far it seems to be more like a delusion than a vision - rationalizing a coach who is worse than Dunn to justify his own mistakes in hiring and extending him (twice). A delusion shared by some others on this board

I fail to see how the geography plays into this. Stated differently, geography does not play into this. At most it has a tiny role… It takes only a few good recruits to have a good basketball team. You can’t change your location, you can change your effort level


#6
[quote="NationBuilder, post:1, topic:997"]How effing pathetic is it that WRESTLING, WOMEN'S BASKETBALL and WOMEN'S VOLLEYBALL have more ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS than men's basketball?

Hell, ALL THREE individually are just one short of twice the mark.

Thanks, Mr. Curley, for your “vision”.[/quote]

What exactly does that have to do with Curley’s vision?

The answer goes to what the fundamental problem is with Penn State basketball. The school and the area is NOT exactly what you would call a hotbed for men’s basketball. It is for all three of the other sports.

He accepts and allows it to be treated as a fourth-tier sport. BOOM.

He is at the top. He is responsible. Coach DeChellis should have NEVER had to have asked for the BASIC facility upgrades (video room, offices, recruiting lounge, locker rooms, etc.) to keep pace even with the most meager “major” conference programs.

How the hoops team is treated vis-a-vis the other sports on campus is irrelevant. How it is treated in comparison to their peers is. The fact that the other sports have managed to dig up endowed scholarships should be a source of pride for both them and Curley. That has NOTHING to do with how the basketball program is supported. They are competing against other Big Ten schools and should be judged against them, not against the other athletic programs on campus.

So you are content with one of the two SHOWCASE sports sorely lagging behind in terms of financial support from boosters?

No wonder we’ve only been to the Big Dance four times since my parents (who are/will be 58 years old this year) have been out of diapers.


#7
[quote="NationBuilder, post:1, topic:997"]How effing pathetic is it that WRESTLING, WOMEN'S BASKETBALL and WOMEN'S VOLLEYBALL have more ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS than men's basketball?

Hell, ALL THREE individually are just one short of twice the mark.

Thanks, Mr. Curley, for your “vision”.[/quote]

What exactly does that have to do with Curley’s vision?

The answer goes to what the fundamental problem is with Penn State basketball. The school and the area is NOT exactly what you would call a hotbed for men’s basketball. It is for all three of the other sports.

He accepts and allows it to be treated as a fourth-tier sport. BOOM.

He is at the top. He is responsible. Coach DeChellis should have NEVER had to have asked for the BASIC facility upgrades (video room, offices, recruiting lounge, locker rooms, etc.) to keep pace even with the most meager “major” conference programs.

How the hoops team is treated vis-a-vis the other sports on campus is irrelevant. How it is treated in comparison to their peers is. The fact that the other sports have managed to dig up endowed scholarships should be a source of pride for both them and Curley. That has NOTHING to do with how the basketball program is supported. They are competing against other Big Ten schools and should be judged against them, not against the other athletic programs on campus.

So you are content with one of the two SHOWCASE sports sorely lagging behind in terms of financial support from boosters?

No wonder we’ve only been to the Big Dance four times since my parents (who are/will be 58 years old this year) have been out of diapers.

The default excuse when they are out of all others is geography.


#8

BUT, if Central Pennsylvania isn’t a hotbed for basketball, then how the hell can it be a hotbed for women’s basketball??? I’m tired of the excuses.

My philosophy from Day 1 of founding what has become Nittany Nation has been…
[size=25pt]I want to know how something CAN be done, NOT why it CAN’T be done.[/size]


#9
[quote="psu_DC, post:7, topic:997"]The default excuse when they are out of all others is geography.[/quote]

BUT, if Central Pennsylvania isn’t a hotbed for basketball, then how the hell can it be a hotbad for women’s basketball???

So what if the immediate area is not a hotbed? It’s also one of the largest universities in the entire northeast (and nation). We’re rationalizing regular 11th place finishes with geography? it’s a joke. They hired two straight coaches who suck after joining the Big Ten, that is why their program sucks.

I don’t get where Curley thinks this is going. I think Jones should try to arrange an interview with Curley so he can explain that text message

He stuck his neck out to back Ed in a text message, and it’s not exactly clear why. A non-response to a text probably would have gone unreported. Curley will never hear the end of the “vision” statement, especially if Ed provides another epic fail next year. It’s clear to me that he is getting defensive about his decisions with respect to this program


#10

[quote=“NationBuilder, post:8, topic:997”]My philosophy from Day 1 of founding what has become Nittany Nation has been…
I want to know how something CAN be done, NOT why it CAN’T be done.[/quote]

You’ve come to the wrong message board.


#11
[quote="NationBuilder, post:1, topic:997"]How effing pathetic is it that WRESTLING, WOMEN'S BASKETBALL and WOMEN'S VOLLEYBALL have more ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS than men's basketball?

Hell, ALL THREE individually are just one short of twice the mark.

Thanks, Mr. Curley, for your “vision”.[/quote]

What exactly does that have to do with Curley’s vision?

The answer goes to what the fundamental problem is with Penn State basketball. The school and the area is NOT exactly what you would call a hotbed for men’s basketball. It is for all three of the other sports.

He accepts and allows it to be treated as a fourth-tier sport. BOOM.

He is at the top. He is responsible. Coach DeChellis should have NEVER had to have asked for the BASIC facility upgrades (video room, offices, recruiting lounge, locker rooms, etc.) to keep pace even with the most meager “major” conference programs.

How the hoops team is treated vis-a-vis the other sports on campus is irrelevant. How it is treated in comparison to their peers is. The fact that the other sports have managed to dig up endowed scholarships should be a source of pride for both them and Curley. That has NOTHING to do with how the basketball program is supported. They are competing against other Big Ten schools and should be judged against them, not against the other athletic programs on campus.

So you are content with one of the two SHOWCASE sports sorely lagging behind in terms of financial support from boosters?

No wonder we’ve only been to the Big Dance four times since my parents (who are/will be 58 years old this year) have been out of diapers.

I am not content that the program lags behind it’s peers, i.e. the other Big Ten schools. I’ve complained about that long before you were even around.

However, how it does vis-a-vis the other sports on campus is irrelevant.

Calling Curley out because the other sports boosters have stepped up is misdirected. It’s also the kind of thing that used to drive me nuts about Rene Portland since she was always comparing her program to the men’s when she should have been comparing it to the other women’s programs around the country.


#12
[quote="psu_DC, post:7, topic:997"]The default excuse when they are out of all others is geography.[/quote]

BUT, if Central Pennsylvania isn’t a hotbed for basketball, then how the hell can it be a hotbed for women’s basketball??? I’m tired of the excuses.

My philosophy from Day 1 of founding what has become Nittany Nation has been…
[size=25pt]I want to know how something CAN be done, NOT why it CAN’T be done.[/size]

They are two different sports and the demographics of both the players and the supporters are very different. Furthermore, Penn State’s tradition in each sports is light years apart. Historically, we are the best program in the state in women’s hoops; men, not so much. If you are a girls high school basketball player in Pennsylvania, why wouldn’t you want to go to Penn State? If you are a boys high school basketball player in Pennsylvania, why would you? Suggesting that the answers that you get to those questions are the same is absurd.


#13

[quote=“NationBuilder, post:1, topic:997”]How effing pathetic is it that WRESTLING, WOMEN’S BASKETBALL and WOMEN’S VOLLEYBALL have more ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS than men’s basketball?

Hell, ALL THREE individually are just one short of twice the mark.

Thanks, Mr. Curley, for your “vision”.[/quote]
It has a lot to say about the PSU fan base. Wrestling has always been “big” locally. At PSU and at HS level. The endowment money is not a surprise.
Women’s volleyball and basketball fan bases at PSU were based on the success and hard work by PSU coaches (Rene and Russ.) I don’t believe there is a strong area fan base for HS/youth women’s volleyball or basketball. This shows PSU fans will “pony up” money wise to support a winner without grass root local HS interest.

WHEN PSU basketball has continued success over a period of time THEN some deep pocket boosters will pony up endowment money. Many people “love a winner” and NCAA DANCING will attract money. Because Tim Curley is somewhat responsible for the continued failure of PSU’s men’s basketball then I would say there is a correlation.

P.S. I don’t have any exact numbers to work with BUT I would say the adult local population has supported (attendance wise) PSU hoops fairly well (considering our win/loss records) since we moved into the BJC. To me the lack of student attendance is alarming. That is why I always preach on “Free Student Tickets” for a couple of years to jump start student interest.


#14

I agree that you can’t compare hoops to the other sports, at least in terms of endowment. That comes from the alumni (read: US) and until there are enough of us who care enough about hoops to put our money where our facebook is, then we should be quiet. Wrestling has a storied place at the institution… they SHOULD have a large scholarship endowment. As for the Women’s Volleyball and Hoops, I think it’s a combination of strong coaching and sustained success, dating back to the forefront of the emergence of women’s athletics, that should be celebrated.

The fact that Men’s hoops is behind speaks to the program’s inability to motivate the fan base through sustained success. People talk of the hidden potential of the program, but to me that means the 30-40,000 students who could become life-time hoop fans if only given a decent product to rally around. That’s never developed (we can argue why…) but the fact remains that, excpet for those if us who were here during the Parkhill years or the sweet 16 run, there just aren’t that many fond memories of basketball games to motivate alumni about contributing towards and endowment.

We see how the numbers drop here when the team struggles… Imagine what the cash-flow of donations looks like! There’s a big part of me that want to call TC on the carpet for our struggles, but we can’t expect to see financial commitments at the “big time” level when the alumni base doesn’t pony up the cash to back it up. Of course, there’s the argument that the donor base is already tapped out from football fundraising (and that’s a seperate argument) but whenever I hear the argument about why TC doesn’t spend more on hoops, I’m reminded of the fact that our donor base just isn’t that big. (which then begs the chicken or the egg argument of: win and the money will come vs. show me the money then I’ll invest in it).

SO please don’t point to the endowment success of the other sports as part of Hoop’s failure. It’s the product of 100 years of subpar performance on the court that will take a long time to overcome.


#15

[quote=“NationBuilder, post:1, topic:997”]How effing pathetic is it that WRESTLING, WOMEN’S BASKETBALL and WOMEN’S VOLLEYBALL have more ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS than men’s basketball?

Hell, ALL THREE individually are just one short of twice the mark.

Thanks, Mr. Curley, for your “vision”.[/quote]

of course, you do realize that there is more pressure among fans and admins of sports that lose money to endow scholarships than there is for sports that turn a profit.


#16
[quote="NationBuilder, post:1, topic:997"]How effing pathetic is it that WRESTLING, WOMEN'S BASKETBALL and WOMEN'S VOLLEYBALL have more ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS than men's basketball?

Hell, ALL THREE individually are just one short of twice the mark.

Thanks, Mr. Curley, for your “vision”.[/quote]

of course, you do realize that there is more pressure among fans and admins of sports that lose money to endow scholarships than there is for sports that turn a profit.

Another excellent point.


#17
[quote="NationBuilder, post:1, topic:997"]How effing pathetic is it that WRESTLING, WOMEN'S BASKETBALL and WOMEN'S VOLLEYBALL have more ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS than men's basketball?

Hell, ALL THREE individually are just one short of twice the mark.

Thanks, Mr. Curley, for your “vision”.[/quote]

of course, you do realize that there is more pressure among fans and admins of sports that lose money to endow scholarships than there is for sports that turn a profit.

Another excellent point.

… which explains why football has so many endowments. ::slight_smile:


#18
[quote="NationBuilder, post:1, topic:997"]How effing pathetic is it that WRESTLING, WOMEN'S BASKETBALL and WOMEN'S VOLLEYBALL have more ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS than men's basketball?

Hell, ALL THREE individually are just one short of twice the mark.

Thanks, Mr. Curley, for your “vision”.[/quote]

of course, you do realize that there is more pressure among fans and admins of sports that lose money to endow scholarships than there is for sports that turn a profit.

Another excellent point.

… which explains why football has so many endowments. ::slight_smile:

You’re reaching in this thread, big time.


#19
[quote="NationBuilder, post:1, topic:997"]How effing pathetic is it that WRESTLING, WOMEN'S BASKETBALL and WOMEN'S VOLLEYBALL have more ENDOWED SCHOLARSHIPS than men's basketball?

Hell, ALL THREE individually are just one short of twice the mark.

Thanks, Mr. Curley, for your “vision”.[/quote]

of course, you do realize that there is more pressure among fans and admins of sports that lose money to endow scholarships than there is for sports that turn a profit.

Another excellent point.

… which explains why football has so many endowments. ::slight_smile:


Or it could be that we have had how many pros in football in the last 40+ years.

#20

Would it be reaching if I pointed out that NORTHWESTERN has more endowed basketball scholarships than us?

The point is Curley is not reaching out and obtaining the resources we need to be competitive, and DeChellis is taking the fall for it.