PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Question about NCAA Academic Requirements


#1

I came across this bit buried in a Wisconsin press release

Other view of rule

The NCAA passed a new rule stiffening academic requirements, which the Big Ten Conference attempted to appeal.

The new rule for football requires players who don’t pass nine credits in the fall semester to sit out four games the following season. If the player passes 27 credits by the end of the summer, the suspension will be reduced to two games. But players can only get the reduction once in their college careers.

The NCAA wants to limit the practice of football players taking fewer hours during the season and loading up on extra classes in the spring and summer to stay eligible.

Alvarez served on the Big Ten committee that he said attempted to appeal the new rule. He didn’t like that it singled out football players.

“Why separate football eligibility rules from everyone else?” he said.

Normally, athletes have to pass 24 credits in a year to remain eligible. Alvarez thinks that should be the standard for regaining two of the lost games.

Finally, he thinks it will encourage athletes to take easier classes, especially early in college.

“People will be more worried about being eligible, instead of maybe going into a curriculum they want to study — especially early on,” he said.

Am I reading this correctly? The old standard for academic eligibility was 24 credits in a year? What degree program can be finished in four years with only 96 credits? Last time I checked, there wasn’t a single Baccalaureate Degree at Penn State that wasn’t at least 120 credits, or five years according NCAA standards.

I’ve never liked the allowance for football players to take less than the minimum credits for a full time student while on scholarship. Even if they are a RS Senior only need one gym class to graduate. If you’re not taking 12 credits, you’re not a full time student & you shouldn’t be on the team.


#2

[quote=“timauman, post:1, topic:2382”]I came across this bit buried in a Wisconsin press release

[quote]Other view of rule

The NCAA passed a new rule stiffening academic requirements, which the Big Ten Conference attempted to appeal.

The new rule for football requires players who don’t pass nine credits in the fall semester to sit out four games the following season. If the player passes 27 credits by the end of the summer, the suspension will be reduced to two games. But players can only get the reduction once in their college careers.

The NCAA wants to limit the practice of football players taking fewer hours during the season and loading up on extra classes in the spring and summer to stay eligible.

Alvarez served on the Big Ten committee that he said attempted to appeal the new rule. He didn’t like that it singled out football players.

“Why separate football eligibility rules from everyone else?” he said.

Normally, athletes have to pass 24 credits in a year to remain eligible. Alvarez thinks that should be the standard for regaining two of the lost games.

Finally, he thinks it will encourage athletes to take easier classes, especially early in college.

“People will be more worried about being eligible, instead of maybe going into a curriculum they want to study — especially early on,” he said.[/quote]

Am I reading this correctly? The old standard for academic eligibility was 24 credits in a year? What degree program can be finished in four years with only 96 credits? Last time I checked, there wasn’t a single Baccalaureate Degree at Penn State that wasn’t at least 120 credits, or five years according NCAA standards.

I’ve never liked the allowance for football players to take less than the minimum credits for a full time student while on scholarship. Even if they are a RS Senior only need one gym class to graduate. If you’re not taking 12 credits, you’re not a full time student & you shouldn’t be on the team.[/quote]

I agree with the highlighted last paragraph. 12 credits is a “light load.” But 12 is acceptable to me…but no less. BUT…I always thought 12 credits were mandatory for ALL athletes. I never knew they have adopted difference standards for football!


#3

It talks about credits passed not taken. You can take a full time course load, but pass less than 9 credits.


#4

[quote=“timauman, post:1, topic:2382”]I came across this bit buried in a Wisconsin press release

[quote]Other view of rule

The NCAA passed a new rule stiffening academic requirements, which the Big Ten Conference attempted to appeal.

The new rule for football requires players who don’t pass nine credits in the fall semester to sit out four games the following season. If the player passes 27 credits by the end of the summer, the suspension will be reduced to two games. But players can only get the reduction once in their college careers.

The NCAA wants to limit the practice of football players taking fewer hours during the season and loading up on extra classes in the spring and summer to stay eligible.

Alvarez served on the Big Ten committee that he said attempted to appeal the new rule. He didn’t like that it singled out football players.

“Why separate football eligibility rules from everyone else?” he said.

Normally, athletes have to pass 24 credits in a year to remain eligible. Alvarez thinks that should be the standard for regaining two of the lost games.

Finally, he thinks it will encourage athletes to take easier classes, especially early in college.

“People will be more worried about being eligible, instead of maybe going into a curriculum they want to study — especially early on,” he said.[/quote]

Am I reading this correctly? The old standard for academic eligibility was 24 credits in a year? What degree program can be finished in four years with only 96 credits? Last time I checked, there wasn’t a single Baccalaureate Degree at Penn State that wasn’t at least 120 credits, or five years according NCAA standards.

I’ve never liked the allowance for football players to take less than the minimum credits for a full time student while on scholarship. Even if they are a RS Senior only need one gym class to graduate. If you’re not taking 12 credits, you’re not a full time student & you shouldn’t be on the team.[/quote]

And five years is exactly the time frame that an athlete has to complete his eligibility. It make perfect sense. There’s no reason to force an athlete to go to graduate school to use up his five years. If a normal student wants to stretch their studies out over five years, there’s no problem with them doing it, so why should an athlete have any extra burden put on them to take more credits?

Lastly, if someone needs only one class to graduate, why should they be required to take any more? What would you like them to do? Schedule a couple of more classes and just not go? That doesn’t make much sense. Again, a regular student in such a situation would likely just take one class, so why burden the athlete with anything additional?


#5

OK…riddle me this… Football player signs up for 12 credits. Takes all of them “pass - fail.” Never shows up for any classes or does any work in 3 of the classes. End of term…he earns 3 credits. Is there presently any penalty for only earning 3 credits in a full semester?? Are the rules just for football or all athletes??


#6

According to this…this proposal was defeated at the D-1A level

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/Misc_Committees_DB/Academic%20Cabinet/February%202011/Additional%20Materials.pdf

(see page 10)


#7

but the scholarships are not five year scholarships, only one year. also, unless mom & dad are paying the freight, a normal student isn’t going to just take 24 credits a year.

you’re either a full time student or you’re not. if you’re on an academic scholarship or full student loans, etc. you have to be enrolled full time. if joe schmoe was one class short of graduation, they either pay for it themselves or enroll full time and add to their student loan debt.

is it really too much to ask college student athletes to take a full time student course load? shoot, why not let them be part time students for ever? require them to pass 12 credits per year.


#8
The NCAA wants to limit the practice of football players taking fewer hours during the season and loading up on extra classes in the spring and summer to stay eligible.

Not sure I really agree with the altering of when an athlete takes classes. It seems to make a lot of sense to me for a football player to have less classes in-season and then take more classes when hes out of season… perfect time management. If a regular student can do that, why can’t an athlete? I know people who can take only 3 or 4 classes instead of the normal 5 classes a semester and they make it up during the summer or the next semester.


#9
[quote="UncleLar, post:4, topic:2382"]And five years is exactly the time frame that an athlete has to complete his eligibility. It make perfect sense. There's no reason to force an athlete to go to graduate school to use up his five years. If a normal student wants to stretch their studies out over five years, there's no problem with them doing it, so why should an athlete have any extra burden put on them to take more credits?[/quote]

but the scholarships are not five year scholarships, only one year. also, unless mom & dad are paying the freight, a normal student isn’t going to just take 24 credits a year.

you’re either a full time student or you’re not. if you’re on an academic scholarship or full student loans, etc. you have to be enrolled full time. if joe schmoe was one class short of graduation, they either pay for it themselves or enroll full time and add to their student loan debt.

is it really too much to ask college student athletes to take a full time student course load? shoot, why not let them be part time students for ever? require them to pass 12 credits per year.

Because the underlying assumption is that athletes are pursuing a degree. If you aren’t going full time, you aren’t satisfactorily progressing toward that degree. However, if you have managed to get yourself within three credits of a degree why should anyone be required to schedule more that the remaining three credits in order to complete their education? A regular student wouldn’t have to, so neither should an athlete.

Frankly, I don’t understand your objection. What exactly is the harm in letting a guy take just three credits to graduate?


#10
It talks about credits passed not taken. You can take a full time course load, but pass less than 9 credits.

OK…riddle me this… Football player signs up for 12 credits. Takes all of them “pass - fail.” Never shows up for any classes or does any work in 3 of the classes. End of term…he earns 3 credits. Is there presently any penalty for only earning 3 credits in a full semester?? Are the rules just for football or all athletes??


You can’t sign up for a regular class pass/fail, unless maybe if you choose “audit only” (in which case, you do not receive a grade, so it’s still not p/f). What you can do, though, is register for 12 credits and late-drop 9 of them before the late-drop deadline. However, you have have to take 21 credits the following semester (assuming 0 during the summer) to remain a full-time student.

I graduated with 155 credits and took only 12 credits two different semesters (one semester, I late-dropped a class and really only took 9 - my first semester in college). I just utilized the summer sessions and took a bunch of summer classes, so it can be done.


#11

[quote=“UncleLar, post:9, topic:2382”]Because the underlying assumption is that athletes are pursuing a degree. If you aren’t going full time, you aren’t satisfactorily progressing toward that degree. However, if you have managed to get yourself within three credits of a degree why should anyone be required to schedule more that the remaining three credits in order to complete their education? A regular student wouldn’t have to, so neither should an athlete.

Frankly, I don’t understand your objection. What exactly is the harm in letting a guy take just three credits to graduate?[/quote]

My point is that if you are not a full time student, you shouldn’t be on the team. there are plenty of things at a University that are restricted to full time students, and I believe that varsity athletics should be one of them. Is a student allowed to be on the student government if they’re only taking one class? I would hope not.

Also, when the NCAA talks about ‘passing 24 credits’ to maintain academic progress, do they consider 24 credits of Ds to be acceptable?


#12
[quote="UncleLar, post:9, topic:2382"]Because the underlying assumption is that athletes are pursuing a degree. If you aren't going full time, you aren't satisfactorily progressing toward that degree. However, if you have managed to get yourself within three credits of a degree why should anyone be required to schedule more that the remaining three credits in order to complete their education? A regular student wouldn't have to, so neither should an athlete.

Frankly, I don’t understand your objection. What exactly is the harm in letting a guy take just three credits to graduate?[/quote]

My point is that if you are not a full time student, you shouldn’t be on the team. there are plenty of things at a University that are restricted to full time students, and I believe that varsity athletics should be one of them. Is a student allowed to be on the student government if they’re only taking one class? I would hope not.

Also, when the NCAA talks about ‘passing 24 credits’ to maintain academic progress, do they consider 24 credits of Ds to be acceptable?


A 12 credit load IS a “full time student” among the entire student population. That is not a special exception for athletes. I know plenty of people who only take 12 credits per semester, just they usually stay for a summer or two to make up the difference (something which many athletes do as well).

The first summer session is over before summer drills/practices begin for football, so many football players take classes during that session to catch up. The same can be said for other scholarship athletes.


#13
[quote="UncleLar, post:9, topic:2382"]Because the underlying assumption is that athletes are pursuing a degree. If you aren't going full time, you aren't satisfactorily progressing toward that degree. However, if you have managed to get yourself within three credits of a degree why should anyone be required to schedule more that the remaining three credits in order to complete their education? A regular student wouldn't have to, so neither should an athlete.

Frankly, I don’t understand your objection. What exactly is the harm in letting a guy take just three credits to graduate?[/quote]

My point is that if you are not a full time student, you shouldn’t be on the team. there are plenty of things at a University that are restricted to full time students, and I believe that varsity athletics should be one of them. Is a student allowed to be on the student government if they’re only taking one class? I would hope not.

Also, when the NCAA talks about ‘passing 24 credits’ to maintain academic progress, do they consider 24 credits of Ds to be acceptable?

Keep trying tim. I have the same opinion and question. I also would like to know the simple “rules” for athletes and credits taken and credits passed for a full semester. BUT…I don’t think we will get direct specific responses or answers.


#14
[quote="UncleLar, post:9, topic:2382"]Because the underlying assumption is that athletes are pursuing a degree. If you aren't going full time, you aren't satisfactorily progressing toward that degree. However, if you have managed to get yourself within three credits of a degree why should anyone be required to schedule more that the remaining three credits in order to complete their education? A regular student wouldn't have to, so neither should an athlete.

Frankly, I don’t understand your objection. What exactly is the harm in letting a guy take just three credits to graduate?[/quote]

My point is that if you are not a full time student, you shouldn’t be on the team. there are plenty of things at a University that are restricted to full time students, and I believe that varsity athletics should be one of them. Is a student allowed to be on the student government if they’re only taking one class? I would hope not.

Also, when the NCAA talks about ‘passing 24 credits’ to maintain academic progress, do they consider 24 credits of Ds to be acceptable?


A 12 credit load IS a “full time student” among the entire student population. That is not a special exception for athletes. I know plenty of people who only take 12 credits per semester, just they usually stay for a summer or two to make up the difference (something which many athletes do as well).

DARN IT…NO one has a problem with the 12 credit loads >:( >:( >:( >:( The questions are about lighter than 12 loads!! :-[ :-[ :-[


#15

If they only need one class to graduate, I’d hope they’d be eligible.


#16
Is a student allowed to be on the student government if they're only taking one class? I would hope not.

If they only need one class to graduate, I’d hope they’d be eligible.


DARN IT AGAIN. ONLY NEEDING 3 to graduate IS NOT ISSUE.

#17
[quote="UncleLar, post:9, topic:2382"]Because the underlying assumption is that athletes are pursuing a degree. If you aren't going full time, you aren't satisfactorily progressing toward that degree. However, if you have managed to get yourself within three credits of a degree why should anyone be required to schedule more that the remaining three credits in order to complete their education? A regular student wouldn't have to, so neither should an athlete.

Frankly, I don’t understand your objection. What exactly is the harm in letting a guy take just three credits to graduate?[/quote]

My point is that if you are not a full time student, you shouldn’t be on the team. there are plenty of things at a University that are restricted to full time students, and I believe that varsity athletics should be one of them. Is a student allowed to be on the student government if they’re only taking one class? I would hope not.

Also, when the NCAA talks about ‘passing 24 credits’ to maintain academic progress, do they consider 24 credits of Ds to be acceptable?


A 12 credit load IS a “full time student” among the entire student population. That is not a special exception for athletes. I know plenty of people who only take 12 credits per semester, just they usually stay for a summer or two to make up the difference (something which many athletes do as well).

DARN IT…NO one has a problem with the 12 credit loads >:( >:( >:( >:( The questions are about lighter than 12 loads!! :-[ :-[ :-[

Read Tim’s comments again. His original post said

“Am I reading this correctly? The old standard for academic eligibility was 24 credits in a year? What degree program can be finished in four years with only 96 credits? Last time I checked, there wasn’t a single Baccalaureate Degree at Penn State that wasn’t at least 120 credits, or five years according NCAA standards.”

Certainly sounds like he’s complaining about the 12 credit load to me.


#18
[quote="timauman, post:11, topic:2382"]Is a student allowed to be on the student government if they're only taking one class? I would hope not.[/quote]

If they only need one class to graduate, I’d hope they’d be eligible.


DARN IT AGAIN. ONLY NEEDING 3 to graduate IS NOT ISSUE.

You’d better ask tim that question directly because the way that I am reading his posts, he most definitely is compliaining about:

  1. 12 credits a term being an issue.
  2. Being eligible while taking your last 3 credits to graduate.

YOU may not think it’s an issue, but tim certainly seems to.


#19

Gosh…I love the Ignore Button! :slight_smile:


#20

I think there are two things (I’m scanning, not reading for comprehension).

  1. “Players can play at the end of their career even when carrying only three credits, making them part-time students.” Lar, I see your point, but this has always made me squeamish, too. Not sure exactly why.

  2. “Players can take a light load and screw it up and still play.” Maybe I am not reading this closely, but there are also progress conditions – you have to have accumulated enough credits at a minimum GPA to keep playing. However, those standards are very low and probably don’t come much into play for the average (non athlete) student earning at worst the grade inflated “gentleman’s Cs”.

sorry if I have made things worse by not understanding the debate…