PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Public - vs - Private HS debate


#1

Looks like Ohio is considering separating playoffs. I think the PIAA should take notice…Private schools cheat!!

Check out Mike White blog:

http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/varsity-blog/21058


#2

I didn’t read the link, but as a State High grad I saw a lot of the public/private school football matchups. I’ve always been a fan of splitting the two up. No reason to let schools that go out and collect kids beat up on small public schools. State high only beat them bc the school was so big.


#3

Way back when, the Catholic schools had their own playoffs - PCIAA playoffs I think it was. Even back then, a lot of the Catholic schools recruited and stockpiled players. Kids would come from a hundred miles away (or even out of state), move in with a local family and enroll in a Catholic school.

Bonus points to anyone who knows where Digger Phelps won a PCIAA in his first head coaching job out of college.


#4

[quote=“Great Santini, post:3, topic:1321”]Way back when, the Catholic schools had their own playoffs - PCIAA playoffs I think it was. Even back then, a lot of the Catholic schools recruited and stockpiled players. Kids would come from a hundred miles away (or even out of state), move in with a local family and enroll in a Catholic school.

Bonus points to anyone who knows where Digger Phelps won a PCIAA in his first head coaching job out of college.[/quote]

I remember the Catholic leagues and play-offs in the 60, and early 70’s in western Pa. Don’t remember when they stopped. I don’t know the answer to the Digger question but I would guess the Philly area because his first college job was as an Asst at Penn. In 1970 while at Fordham Digger had 3 or 4 western Pa kids. He continued to recruit Western Pa hard in his ND years. I remember L. Stahurski (sp) from St Basil and D. Clay from 5th Avenue HS went to ND.


#5

I have no axe to grind in this but plenty of public schools have kids move into their area for non academic reasons. Kerry Collins was one, Berwick had kids move to that district all the time. Manheim Central has had a few. If your program is good players seek those places out. You don’t have to recruit them. I think this is way overblown.


#6

No doubt about it. Remember the famous “red shirting” that used to happen at Mt. Carmel back in the 1950’s and 1960’s?


#7

Good point. West Allegheny has received 3 top “transfer” kids from the Beaver Valley in the past 2 years. Just because Berwick and Manheim ( 2 legendary programs) got transfers does not make it right. BUT BUT the biggest difference is that to attend a private school NO HOUSEHOLD MOVE is necessary. Also Private schools give scholorships. Sometimes full, many times NOT… BUT this “payed to come to my school and play a sport” approach is very successful.


#8

[quote=“Great Santini, post:3, topic:1321”]Way back when, the Catholic schools had their own playoffs - PCIAA playoffs I think it was. Even back then, a lot of the Catholic schools recruited and stockpiled players. Kids would come from a hundred miles away (or even out of state), move in with a local family and enroll in a Catholic school.

Bonus points to anyone who knows where Digger Phelps won a PCIAA in his first head coaching job out of college.[/quote]

I don’t agree with “seperate” leagues.

I would understand putting the private schools into the AAAA, no matter the size !!!

I think the PIAA has a handle on it. Some private schools recruit, some do not. The PIAA puts those schools in higher classifications, such as Trinity in the MID PENN. I think they are in different classifications for football and basketball. Same with Bishop McDevitt.


#9
[quote="Great Santini, post:3, topic:1321"]Way back when, the Catholic schools had their own playoffs - PCIAA playoffs I think it was. Even back then, a lot of the Catholic schools recruited and stockpiled players. Kids would come from a hundred miles away (or even out of state), move in with a local family and enroll in a Catholic school.

Bonus points to anyone who knows where Digger Phelps won a PCIAA in his first head coaching job out of college.[/quote]

I don’t agree with “seperate” leagues.

I would understand putting the private schools into the AAAA, no matter the size !!!

I think the PIAA has a handle on it. Some private schools recruit, some do not. The PIAA puts those schools in higher classifications, such as Trinity in the MID PENN. I think they are in different classifications for football and basketball. Same with Bishop McDevitt.

Interesting. I am not familar with any similar placements in the WPIAL. (Technically no one can recruit in the WPIAL) but of course there are ways around this. I have known some schools (private and public) who have chose to “play up” in a higher classification but I am not familar with anyone being “forced” to play up.


#10
[quote="psujb, post:5, topic:1321"]I have no axe to grind in this but plenty of public schools have kids move into their area for non academic reasons. Kerry Collins was one, Berwick had kids move to that district all the time. Manheim Central has had a few. If your program is good players seek those places out. You don't have to recruit them. I think this is way overblown.[/quote] Good point. West Allegheny has received 3 top "transfer" kids from the Beaver Valley in the past 2 years. Just because Berwick and Manheim ( 2 legendary programs) got transfers does not make it right. BUT BUT the biggest difference is that to attend a private school NO HOUSEHOLD MOVE is necessary. Also Private schools give scholorships. Sometimes full, many times NOT........... BUT this "payed to come to my school and play a sport" approach is very successful.
Take Bishop McDevitt Football as a perfect example. Talk about recruiting kids. They have a line year in and year out the size of Penn State's line.

#11
[quote="Great Santini, post:3, topic:1321"]Way back when, the Catholic schools had their own playoffs - PCIAA playoffs I think it was. Even back then, a lot of the Catholic schools recruited and stockpiled players. Kids would come from a hundred miles away (or even out of state), move in with a local family and enroll in a Catholic school.

Bonus points to anyone who knows where Digger Phelps won a PCIAA in his first head coaching job out of college.[/quote]

I don’t agree with “seperate” leagues.

I would understand putting the private schools into the AAAA, no matter the size !!!

I think the PIAA has a handle on it. Some private schools recruit, some do not. The PIAA puts those schools in higher classifications, such as Trinity in the MID PENN. I think they are in different classifications for football and basketball. Same with Bishop McDevitt.

One more point. The Ohio coaches did not request “different leagues.” BUT “different play-offs.”


#12

I think the scholarship things gets overplayed quite a bit as well. I am pretty sure that the kids going to most Catholic High Schools at least in the Central Pa area are not on scholarship.


#13

The PIAA doesn’t need separate playoffs for the private schools. I do think that private schools should be forced to “play up” 1 division though. Schools like McDevitt will tell you that they don’t recruit and that’s kind of true. The school doesn’t actively recruit, but the kids do. McD poaches kids from Harrisburg and Central Dauphin. I can’t fault the Harrisburg kids for escaping a horribly mismanaged school district. It’ll be interesting to see how many of the city kids continue to go to McD after they build their new school out in the suburbs.

The PIAA needs to expand the number of classifications in football. How can you expect schools with 550 male students to be able to compete year in and year out against schools that have 1100 male students? My alma mater Cedar Cliff and sister school Red Land combined have fewer students than Cumberland Valley. Red Land is now down to AAA, but CC is stuck in AAAA. God help us if the HUGE school districts like Reading and Chambersburg ever get their acts together.


#14

Hey Santini,…What’s the answer to the Digger question??


#15

[quote=“tundra, post:14, topic:1321”]Hey Santini,…What’s the answer to the Digger question??[/quote]St Gabriel’s in Hazleton


#16
[quote="tundra, post:14, topic:1321"]Hey Santini,................What's the answer to the Digger question??[/quote]St Gabriel's in Hazleton

was never able to put a finger on why I’ve never liked Hazleton until now.


#17
[quote="Great Santini, post:3, topic:1321"]Way back when, the Catholic schools had their own playoffs - PCIAA playoffs I think it was. Even back then, a lot of the Catholic schools recruited and stockpiled players. Kids would come from a hundred miles away (or even out of state), move in with a local family and enroll in a Catholic school.

Bonus points to anyone who knows where Digger Phelps won a PCIAA in his first head coaching job out of college.[/quote]

I don’t agree with “seperate” leagues.

I would understand putting the private schools into the AAAA, no matter the size !!!

I think the PIAA has a handle on it. Some private schools recruit, some do not. The PIAA puts those schools in higher classifications, such as Trinity in the MID PENN. I think they are in different classifications for football and basketball. Same with Bishop McDevitt.

I am pretty sure that is not correct, and those schools are playing in higher classifications voluntarily. That in itself is a subtle form of recruiting, since a kid has this option of going there to play in AAAA without changing school districts. I am pretty sure the PIAA does not tell them they have to do it. And in the past I think Steel High played up a classification and they are a public school. A lot of private schools probably do cheat and recruit, but in a lot of cases I think there is no actual recruiting happening except that kids and their parents are drawn to enroll there because it looks like a better option than the home district (for sports or otherwise)

I’ve heard this for a lot of my life, that the Catholic schools in PA recruit players and I laugh. I went to one of these schools, and they had superior boys and girls basketball teams. People always got mad at the success and made these recruiting accusations. But as it turns out, pretty much every player had been in Catholic school since kindergarten. Did the recruiting begin when they were 4 years old? Some of this is a product of a more competitive basketball program at the elementary school level.


#18

The Catholic schools tend to all have good programs because they have a good support and teaching system at the elementary level. For many years, at least in Central PA, the catholic leagues were way ahead of the public leagues at the 2nd-8th grade levels, and that’s for both football and Hoops. “varsity” level CYO is incredibly competitive, and for the most part well coached. I think the gap has closed somewhat from when I was in school, particularly with the girl’s programs… CYO was WAY out front there.

Of course you take a school with a good feeder system and a history of success, and you’re bound to draw in some kids who want to be a part of that once they get to the HS level. Of couse, if they’re talented I’m sure the coaaching staff would be more than accomodating. Is there much actual RECRUITING going on. It happens, but I don’t think it’s widespread.

The question to me is how fair is it to have these schools play the public schools when their feeder populations are so different? I don’t have a good answer to that myself… it’s a tough question.


#19
[quote="tundra, post:14, topic:1321"]Hey Santini,................What's the answer to the Digger question??[/quote]St Gabriel's in Hazleton

was never able to put a finger on why I’ve never liked Hazleton until now.

I like Hazleton. I’ll be getting a free set of Taylor Made clubs from Eagle Rock in 3 weeks.


#20

I get those same invitations, but I’ve never been interested in time shares.