Psu - byu


#1

http://www.deseretnews.com/blog/19/10008827/BYU-Cougars-blog-BYU-hoops-odds-and-ends.html

Getting Jimmer back home: Rumors have been flying in recent weeks about the Cougars playing Penn State in December at Times Union Center in Albany, N. Y., or Seina at the Glens Falls Civic Center. Coach Dave Rose acknowledges he's trying to get a game back in guard Jimmer Fredette's home state of New York, but there are a lot of issues to resolve before anything is "in the books." The Penn State game, which would reunite Fredette with former AAU teammate and Nittany Lions guard Taylor Battle, is far from a sure thing because of a conflict at the Times Union Center. The arena has already inked Disney on Ice for the same date, Dec. 18, on which BYU and Penn State hope to meet there. Albany is not only the hometown of Battle, and within reasonable driving distance of Glens Falls (50 miles) but is the hometown of Penn State freshman Taran Buie as well, so I wouldn't be surprised if Penn State officials figure out a way to make this work. However, I've seen many proposed games slip through the cracks in recent years. Scheduling is very complicated these days.

#2

[quote=“MUGrbg, post:1, topic:1082”]http://www.deseretnews.com/blog/19/10008827/BYU-Cougars-blog-BYU-hoops-odds-and-ends.html

UAlbany also has an arena. Saw one game there, couldn’t tell you how big, but probably smaller than Glens Falls CC. 4-5k, I’d think. They could play double header with Albany and Siena.


#3
[quote="MUGrbg, post:1, topic:1082"][url=http://www.deseretnews.com/blog/19/10008827/BYU-Cougars-blog-BYU-hoops-odds-and-ends.html]http://www.deseretnews.com/blog/19/10008827/BYU-Cougars-blog-BYU-hoops-odds-and-ends.html[/url]

UAlbany also has an arena. Saw one game there, couldn’t tell you how big, but probably smaller than Glens Falls CC. 4-5k, I’d think. They could play double header with Albany and Siena.

How would that make sense?

Aren’t you going to come close to selling out most any arena in which you book the game? So why would you add Albany and Siena to the mix and split the gate even further?


#4
[quote="MUGrbg, post:1, topic:1082"][url=http://www.deseretnews.com/blog/19/10008827/BYU-Cougars-blog-BYU-hoops-odds-and-ends.html]http://www.deseretnews.com/blog/19/10008827/BYU-Cougars-blog-BYU-hoops-odds-and-ends.html[/url]

UAlbany also has an arena. Saw one game there, couldn’t tell you how big, but probably smaller than Glens Falls CC. 4-5k, I’d think. They could play double header with Albany and Siena.

How would that make sense?

Aren’t you going to come close to selling out most any arena in which you book the game? So why would you add Albany and Siena to the mix and split the gate even further?

I guess that’s true. Just looking for a solution. The Times Union Center, with its 16,000+ seats is the best, but the teams seem stuck on Dec 18th. Not sure why. Michigan often plays OOC games in January, during conference season.


#5

Has anyone heard anything recently about playing BYU? Is it happening?


#6

Has to be dead, don’t you think? BYU is not going to do two games like this in the Glens Falls/Albany area. I suppose playing the same weekend vs PSU might work, if it was at the 15000+ Times Union Center and get some solid revenue, but I just doubt it. My guess is at BYU, money is not a top issue when scheduling games for local player. The 4800 seat GFCC might garner $20 per ticket, and it will certainly sell out. They sold out the Glens Falls HS games played there. I think PSU would’ve benefited by showcasing their team with Talor and Taran. There’s about 20 AA teams in the area, not all great, but still a fair amount of talent. It’d be a good recruiting tool, IMO.


#7
[quote="Finding Forrester, post:5, topic:1082"]Has anyone heard anything recently about playing BYU? Is it happening?[/quote]

Has to be dead, don’t you think? BYU is not going to do two games like this in the Glens Falls/Albany area. I suppose playing the same weekend vs PSU might work, if it was at the 15000+ Times Union Center and get some solid revenue, but I just doubt it. My guess is at BYU, money is not a top issue when scheduling games for local player. The 4800 seat GFCC might garner $20 per ticket, and it will certainly sell out. They sold out the Glens Falls HS games played there. I think PSU would’ve benefited by showcasing their team with Talor and Taran. There’s about 20 AA teams in the area, not all great, but still a fair amount of talent. It’d be a good recruiting tool, IMO.

Whether or not it would have been a great recruiting tool, it is a shame if it won’t happen. If Ed is going to be around, he and PSU need to strongly consider stringing together a top 20 SOS if they can. And that includes road games. They’re trying to sneak in with a poor schedule and a great record, and it keeps backfiring when the team doesn’t win every game it is supposed to. I’ve got news for them, it is an uphill battle to make the tournament that way, especially when your program’s history is not so great. A tough OOC schedule apparently scares Ed and Curley, but I really think it is the only answer to taking the next step. Let’s forget last year but think back to '08-'09. I think they were 11-2 vs the OOC. If they had gone 8-5 against an OOC schedule that produced a top 20 SOS, they probably would have gone to the NCAA tournament with their 4th place big ten finish, and a very good RPI, and an 18-13 record.

I truly believe that Ed and Curley value 20 win seasons more than anything… which mean nothing to the NCAA committee or anybody else if they are full of empty wins


#8
[quote="Finding Forrester, post:5, topic:1082"]Has anyone heard anything recently about playing BYU? Is it happening?[/quote]

Has to be dead, don’t you think? BYU is not going to do two games like this in the Glens Falls/Albany area. I suppose playing the same weekend vs PSU might work, if it was at the 15000+ Times Union Center and get some solid revenue, but I just doubt it. My guess is at BYU, money is not a top issue when scheduling games for local player. The 4800 seat GFCC might garner $20 per ticket, and it will certainly sell out. They sold out the Glens Falls HS games played there. I think PSU would’ve benefited by showcasing their team with Talor and Taran. There’s about 20 AA teams in the area, not all great, but still a fair amount of talent. It’d be a good recruiting tool, IMO.

Whether or not it would have been a great recruiting tool, it is a shame if it won’t happen. If Ed is going to be around, he and PSU need to strongly consider stringing together a top 20 SOS if they can. And that includes road games. They’re trying to sneak in with a poor schedule and a great record, and it keeps backfiring when the team doesn’t win every game it is supposed to. I’ve got news for them, it is an uphill battle to make the tournament that way, especially when your program’s history is not so great. A tough OOC schedule apparently scares Ed and Curley, but I really think it is the only answer to taking the next step. Let’s forget last year but think back to '08-'09. I think they were 11-2 vs the OOC. If they had gone 8-5 against an OOC schedule that produced a top 20 SOS, they probably would have gone to the NCAA tournament with their 4th place big ten finish, and a very good RPI, and an 18-13 record.

I truly believe that Ed and Curley value 20 win seasons more than anything… which mean nothing to the NCAA committee or anybody else if they are full of empty wins


Curley values one thing. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

and Ed values keeping his job.

In the not-so-infamous words of the Great Bundage, "a win is a win is a win".


#9

I get why Ed is ducking everybody he can. But Curley, I don’t get. On what planet would increased interest in the program (via competing to make the NCAAs) mean less money?


#10

Think about what BYU is doing for this game. Travelling over 2,500 miles to small venue, where the money won’t be great to play poor/weak team from terrible conference. And why? For Jimmer Fredette.

PSU could have helped BYU, not that they need it, by also being accomodating to their Albany area player(s), even if it was played in Glens Falls, rather than the larger Times Union Center. PSU also would have incurred significantly less cost than BYU by taking a 5 1/2 hour bus ride to GF, or 4 1/2 to Albany, rather than plane ride. Different programs, different objectives.


#11

Kid, do you know that the game isn’t happening? If so, do you know that it’s a financial decision?

Therealtruth, have you heard anything else about this game?


#12

[quote=“Finding Forrester, post:11, topic:1082”]Kid, do you know that the game isn’t happening? If so, do you know that it’s a financial decision?

Therealtruth, have you heard anything else about this game?[/quote]

I have no idea. It just seems that they were trying to get it at the Times Union Center, then the Vermont game happened in Glens Falls. Makes me think BYU wanted 1st to be accommodating to Jimmer and Glens Falls, which is less than 1/3 the size arena than the TUC. BYU can’t possibly make money on this, not serious money anyway, but apparently that wasn’t their motivation. I bet that PSU’s cost for a bus and hotel stay in Glens Falls in December(hotel rooms are $80 per night during the states) is less than $2,000 total, probably less than the total cost of one person attending the Rose Bowl…but that’s the AD’s priority, and he benefits. With this he doesn’t. Sorry, if I’m cynical. Glens Falls in December isn’t as nice as Pasadena in January. You’d have to go to a tanning salon to get any color that time of year in Glens Falls. The big beneficiaries here are Jimmer, the local residents and the Glens Falls Civic Center. BYU was willing to do it for no apparent benefit to the school. Why PSU didn’t step up, I don’t know. For Vermont, it’s a money maker, and a 2 hour ride. It’s closer than ALL of Vermont’s conference opponents. And you know it was either the Civic Center or BYU who contacted Vermont, apparently giving up on PSU. It certainly wasn’t Vermont looking for a game vs. BYU in Glens Falls.

Then again, maybe PSU grads don’t tithe as much as the Church of Latter Day Saints members. :wink:


#13

I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, but you aren’t taking into account the money LOST by not having a game at PSU or Times Union. I’m betting that $$ total is a little bigger than $2k.


#14

BTW, if PSU is so inclined to play an Albany area game for its local players, they can always contact UAlbany or Siena or Vermont or even Syracuse(though unlikely Boeheim would do it), or Marist. Fordham, Iona and Binghampton aren’t outside 2 hours from Albany either. Siena’s home court is the Times Union Center, so they could probably get court time, or at least know what’s available. Where there’s a will there’s a way. I just wouldn’t hold my breath.


#15
[quote="kidcoyote, post:12, topic:1082"]I bet that PSU's cost for a bus and hotel stay in Glens Falls in December(hotel rooms are $80 per night during the states) is less than $2,000 total, probably less than the total cost of one person attending the Rose Bowl...but that's the AD's priority, and he benefits. With this he doesn't. Sorry, if I'm cynical.[/quote]

I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, but you aren’t taking into account the money LOST by not having a game at PSU or Times Union. I’m betting that $$ total is a little bigger than $2k.

Not so sure that would be all that much of a factor.

How many season tix holders does PSU have? How many of those are what Lar would call “fat cats”, where they get them free because of contributions?

I’m sure there would be a loss, but I don’t think it would be great.

BTW, BYU gets another benefit… recruiting. BYU having a game, showing off a local boy done good? Can you imagine the publicity? And who would they have to compete with for future recruits? According to kid’s list: UAlbany, Siena, Vermont, Marist, Fordham, Iona, Binghampton, or maybe Syracuse.

Knowing that, do you think BYU would jump at the opportunity to play Penn State and Talor Battle, with Penn State being as close to Buffalo as they are?

…just a thought.


#16
[quote="kidcoyote, post:12, topic:1082"]I bet that PSU's cost for a bus and hotel stay in Glens Falls in December(hotel rooms are $80 per night during the states) is less than $2,000 total, probably less than the total cost of one person attending the Rose Bowl...but that's the AD's priority, and he benefits. With this he doesn't. Sorry, if I'm cynical.[/quote]

I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, but you aren’t taking into account the money LOST by not having a game at PSU or Times Union. I’m betting that $$ total is a little bigger than $2k.

Not so sure that would be all that much of a factor.

How many season tix holders does PSU have? How many of those are what Lar would call “fat cats”, where they get them free because of contributions?

I’m sure there would be a loss, but I don’t think it would be great.

BTW, BYU gets another benefit… recruiting. BYU having a game, showing off a local boy done good? Can you imagine the publicity? And who would they have to compete with for future recruits? According to kid’s list: UAlbany, Siena, Vermont, Marist, Fordham, Iona, Binghampton, or maybe Syracuse.

Knowing that, do you think BYU would jump at the opportunity to play Penn State and Talor Battle, with Penn State being as close to Buffalo as they are?

…just a thought.

Penn State has about 4000 season ticket holders and none of them get their tickets for free. The means any home game is probably between $40-$50,000 in the bank.


#17
[quote="kidcoyote, post:12, topic:1082"]I bet that PSU's cost for a bus and hotel stay in Glens Falls in December(hotel rooms are $80 per night during the states) is less than $2,000 total, probably less than the total cost of one person attending the Rose Bowl...but that's the AD's priority, and he benefits. With this he doesn't. Sorry, if I'm cynical.[/quote]

I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, but you aren’t taking into account the money LOST by not having a game at PSU or Times Union. I’m betting that $$ total is a little bigger than $2k.

Not so sure that would be all that much of a factor.

How many season tix holders does PSU have? How many of those are what Lar would call “fat cats”, where they get them free because of contributions?

I’m sure there would be a loss, but I don’t think it would be great.

BTW, BYU gets another benefit… recruiting. BYU having a game, showing off a local boy done good? Can you imagine the publicity? And who would they have to compete with for future recruits? According to kid’s list: UAlbany, Siena, Vermont, Marist, Fordham, Iona, Binghampton, or maybe Syracuse.

Knowing that, do you think BYU would jump at the opportunity to play Penn State and Talor Battle, with Penn State being as close to Buffalo as they are?

…just a thought.

Penn State has about 4000 season ticket holders and none of them get their tickets for free. The means any home game is probably between $40-$50,000 in the bank.

I thought you said that some of them were “comped” because of large NLC donations. That’s why all the lower seats are always empty for the noncon games.

Were you making that up?


#18
I bet that PSU's cost for a bus and hotel stay in Glens Falls in December(hotel rooms are $80 per night during the states) is less than $2,000 total, probably less than the total cost of one person attending the Rose Bowl...but that's the AD's priority, and he benefits. With this he doesn't. Sorry, if I'm cynical.

I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, but you aren’t taking into account the money LOST by not having a game at PSU or Times Union. I’m betting that $$ total is a little bigger than $2k.

Money lost? Michigan plays an OOC game every January. Why doesn’t PSU just do something like that? I think last year Michigan hosted UConn. Think an opponent like that would bring in some fan$ to the BJC?

IMO, PSU has to think bigger, not micro manage game by game. If the GFCC charged $20 per ticket X 4800 seats, or $96K, let’s say it’s split 3 ways,GFCC, BYU and PSU. Not great, but acceptable. There’s another factor here. Talor and Taran get to play near where they played HS ball. Local kids get more of a feeling about PSU, all stuff like that. What does BYU get by doing this? They’ll get more local Mormons to attend? They don’t need that, they’ll get them anyway.

This is about goodwill and player recognition. I guess some teams/schools/coaches/AD’s have a greater appreciation for one of their stars, and are willing to do something like this despite little evidence of it being financially sensible. It’d be interesting to know the calculations PSU used to analyze this. You think BYU crunched the numbers? To me, it just reveals differences between the programs. Religious institutions just have a different way of looking at things, and it doesn’t start with a green eyeshade and calculator. It sounds funny, but they have faith things will work out if you do the right thing. They don’t sweat the small stuff, and not getting optimal gate receipts is small stuff. The key to happiness is the result of good living and doing the right thing. ;D


#19
[quote="kidcoyote, post:12, topic:1082"]I bet that PSU's cost for a bus and hotel stay in Glens Falls in December(hotel rooms are $80 per night during the states) is less than $2,000 total, probably less than the total cost of one person attending the Rose Bowl...but that's the AD's priority, and he benefits. With this he doesn't. Sorry, if I'm cynical.[/quote]

I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, but you aren’t taking into account the money LOST by not having a game at PSU or Times Union. I’m betting that $$ total is a little bigger than $2k.

Not so sure that would be all that much of a factor.

How many season tix holders does PSU have? How many of those are what Lar would call “fat cats”, where they get them free because of contributions?

I’m sure there would be a loss, but I don’t think it would be great.

BTW, BYU gets another benefit… recruiting. BYU having a game, showing off a local boy done good? Can you imagine the publicity? And who would they have to compete with for future recruits? According to kid’s list: UAlbany, Siena, Vermont, Marist, Fordham, Iona, Binghampton, or maybe Syracuse.

Knowing that, do you think BYU would jump at the opportunity to play Penn State and Talor Battle, with Penn State being as close to Buffalo as they are?

…just a thought.

Penn State has about 4000 season ticket holders and none of them get their tickets for free. The means any home game is probably between $40-$50,000 in the bank.

Yes, and that is probably the lower bound on a home game’s revenue. With more interest in the program, that revenue goes up in more tickets, parking, concessions, etc. If someone did the math, they would probably realize very quickly that a bunch of home games against bad teams means a predictable $40k per contest, and that with higher attendance, less home games are needed to make more total revenue. Why is Curley satisfied with the minimum for this program? What kind of management type is he, if he’s satisfied with the minimum expected revenue? Not to mention that if this awfulness goes on much longer, those 4000 will be 3000, then 2000, etc


#20
[quote="kidcoyote, post:12, topic:1082"]I bet that PSU's cost for a bus and hotel stay in Glens Falls in December(hotel rooms are $80 per night during the states) is less than $2,000 total, probably less than the total cost of one person attending the Rose Bowl...but that's the AD's priority, and he benefits. With this he doesn't. Sorry, if I'm cynical.[/quote]

I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, but you aren’t taking into account the money LOST by not having a game at PSU or Times Union. I’m betting that $$ total is a little bigger than $2k.

Not so sure that would be all that much of a factor.

How many season tix holders does PSU have? How many of those are what Lar would call “fat cats”, where they get them free because of contributions?

I’m sure there would be a loss, but I don’t think it would be great.

BTW, BYU gets another benefit… recruiting. BYU having a game, showing off a local boy done good? Can you imagine the publicity? And who would they have to compete with for future recruits? According to kid’s list: UAlbany, Siena, Vermont, Marist, Fordham, Iona, Binghampton, or maybe Syracuse.

Knowing that, do you think BYU would jump at the opportunity to play Penn State and Talor Battle, with Penn State being as close to Buffalo as they are?

…just a thought.

Penn State has about 4000 season ticket holders and none of them get their tickets for free. The means any home game is probably between $40-$50,000 in the bank.

I thought you said that some of them were “comped” because of large NLC donations. That’s why all the lower seats are always empty for the noncon games.

Were you making that up?

No, you are making it up.

In fact, I’ve been very adamant in pointing out that the donations that people made to qualify to BUY the floor seats got them NO Nittany Lion Club points.

What I have said is that some of those seats are bought and paid for by people who think they are supporting the team by buying the seats Once they have done that they don’t see a need to actually sit in them for every game.