PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Proposed rule changes for next season


#1

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Latest+News/2011/May/Mens+basketball+rules+committee+recommends+restricted+area+arc


#2

Nice to see they’re looking into adding the half circle under the basket. I like that. Now, if they’d get rid of the possesion rule on jump balls I’d be pretty happy (not really expecting it though).


#3

How about making the rim 11 or 12 feet high? I think that you’d see a lot more scores like the Wisky/PSU game.


#4

While I don’t like the rule, if you’re going to have the rule, you might as well make it easier to enforce.


#5

I don’t like the 3 foot rule. A charge is a charge is a charge! I know it is not an easy call but the refs should still apply the rules. This reminds me of the NBA. It’s OK to run with the ball as long as you dunk it!!
Rules changes are “changing” the game. You now get 3 points for a simple outside shot. I think you get 4 points if you shout ESPN ROCKS while you shoot the ball!


#6

That’s just it…a charge is a charge. A flop isn’t a charge. The 3-foot rule will help separate the flops with the charges.


#7
I don't like the 3 foot rule. A charge is a charge is a charge!

That’s just it…a charge is a charge. A flop isn’t a charge. The 3-foot rule will help separate the flops with the charges.


WHY…defenders flop all over the court… A flop is a NO CALL. Most basketball refs are pretty savvy basketball people. It they see it as a flop…play on. Unless by FLOPPING the defender hits the offensive player…then it is a foul by the defender.

#8
[quote="tundra, post:5, topic:2383"]I don't like the 3 foot rule. A charge is a charge is a charge![/quote]

That’s just it…a charge is a charge. A flop isn’t a charge. The 3-foot rule will help separate the flops with the charges.


WHY…defenders flop all over the court… A flop is a NO CALL. Most basketball refs are pretty savvy basketball people. It they see it as a flop…play on. Unless by FLOPPING the defender hits the offensive player…then it is a foul by the defender.

But they don’t see it as a flop. That’s the problem. There needs to be something that dissuades the flop. Soccer went and did something about it. I think the first time someone flops, they get a warning. Second time, technical foul.

But in the meantime, if a line on the court helps limit flops, it’s a good thing. We’ll see if that’s the case.


#9

I don’t know why people get so upset about flops. If you flop and the ref doesn’t call it, your man has an unimpeded path to an easy basket and you are giving up an easy two.


#10

Didn’t Talor say something like “We’re good in the 30s” or something like that. I seem to remember laughing out loud at that. Sorry, State4Life made me think of that and laugh again.


#11

But lots of officials call flops charges. Now I hate the arc - I think if a defender legitimately gets position and gets run over it should be a charge regardless of where it occurs. We’ve done enough to give the advantage to the offensive players. I’m not interested on college basketball going the way of the NBA where all we see is who can jump high and drive to the basketball unimpeded.


#12
I don't know why people get so upset about flops. If you flop and the ref doesn't call it, your man has an unimpeded path to an easy basket and you are giving up an easy two.

But lots of officials call flops charges. Now I hate the arc - I think if a defender legitimately gets position and gets run over it should be a charge regardless of where it occurs. We’ve done enough to give the advantage to the offensive players. I’m not interested on college basketball going the way of the NBA where all we see is who can jump high and drive to the basketball unimpeded.

I don’t quite agree. In reality what are you actually defending if you get position under the basket? 90% of the time, you really aren’t defending anything. You’re covering up for a fellow defender who’s been beat off of the ball and you’re just hoping to get in the way of oncoming player just before or after he releases the ball to get a charge call. Chances of you actually stopping the play are almost nil. If you’re 15’ away, then clearly you are still defending; if you are right under the basket, clearly you are not. Now the magic question is, how big should the circle be so that legitimate defenders still have room to operate?


#13
[quote="TomF, post:9, topic:2383"]I don't know why people get so upset about flops. If you flop and the ref doesn't call it, your man has an unimpeded path to an easy basket and you are giving up an easy two.[/quote]

But lots of officials call flops charges. Now I hate the arc - I think if a defender legitimately gets position and gets run over it should be a charge regardless of where it occurs. We’ve done enough to give the advantage to the offensive players. I’m not interested on college basketball going the way of the NBA where all we see is who can jump high and drive to the basketball unimpeded.

I don’t quite agree. In reality what are you actually defending if you get position under the basket? 90% of the time, you really aren’t defending anything. You’re covering up for a fellow defender who’s been beat off of the ball and you’re just hoping to get in the way of oncoming player just before or after he releases the ball to get a charge call. Chances of you actually stopping the play are almost nil. If you’re 15’ away, then clearly you are still defending; if you are right under the basket, clearly you are not. Now the magic question is, how big should the circle be so that legitimate defenders still have room to operate?

However basketball isn’t a one on one sport…it is a team sport. Coaches spend far more time on team defense than we do individual defense. Our motto is that 5 people guard the basketball. While in man to man defense you are responsible primarily for 1 player - everyone guards the rim. That’s why when the ball in on the right wing, you don’t see the defender who is guarding the player in the left corner actually out in the corner - he is in help-side defense - usually with his head under the rim. The player guarding the opposite wing isn’t out on the wing - he has one foot in the paint at the elbow - ready to step into the gap and help. Team defense is all about help and rotation. Yes it’s great when you have a lockdown defender who doesn’t allow him man to beat him to the basket - but that just makes your team defense that much better.


#14
[quote="TomF, post:9, topic:2383"]I don't know why people get so upset about flops. If you flop and the ref doesn't call it, your man has an unimpeded path to an easy basket and you are giving up an easy two.[/quote]

But lots of officials call flops charges. Now I hate the arc - I think if a defender legitimately gets position and gets run over it should be a charge regardless of where it occurs. We’ve done enough to give the advantage to the offensive players. I’m not interested on college basketball going the way of the NBA where all we see is who can jump high and drive to the basketball unimpeded.

I don’t quite agree. In reality what are you actually defending if you get position under the basket? 90% of the time, you really aren’t defending anything. You’re covering up for a fellow defender who’s been beat off of the ball and you’re just hoping to get in the way of oncoming player just before or after he releases the ball to get a charge call. Chances of you actually stopping the play are almost nil. If you’re 15’ away, then clearly you are still defending; if you are right under the basket, clearly you are not. Now the magic question is, how big should the circle be so that legitimate defenders still have room to operate?

However basketball isn’t a one on one sport…it is a team sport. Coaches spend far more time on team defense than we do individual defense. Our motto is that 5 people guard the basketball. While in man to man defense you are responsible primarily for 1 player - everyone guards the rim. That’s why when the ball in on the right wing, you don’t see the defender who is guarding the player in the left corner actually out in the corner - he is in help-side defense - usually with his head under the rim. The player guarding the opposite wing isn’t out on the wing - he has one foot in the paint at the elbow - ready to step into the gap and help. Team defense is all about help and rotation. Yes it’s great when you have a lockdown defender who doesn’t allow him man to beat him to the basket - but that just makes your team defense that much better.

You make a good point, but when a weak side defender comes to help, he rarely gets to a point where he can actually defend the rim. He’s usually in a position of hoping to get a charge call AFTER the play at the rim is made, not actually stop the guy from getting to the rim.


#15
I don't know why people get so upset about flops. If you flop and the ref doesn't call it, your man has an unimpeded path to an easy basket and you are giving up an easy two.

But lots of officials call flops charges. Now I hate the arc - I think if a defender legitimately gets position and gets run over it should be a charge regardless of where it occurs. We’ve done enough to give the advantage to the offensive players. I’m not interested on college basketball going the way of the NBA where all we see is who can jump high and drive to the basketball unimpeded.

Sounds like we don’t have a rules problem. We have a referee training problem. Let’s solve that problem instead of adding MORE rules for the refs to learn and enforce.


#16

One more thing on the flop/circle under the basket rule:

As I recall, the NBA didn’t add this rule because they were trying to stop flops. At the time they were worried about injuries to their high priced athletes. They thought adding the circle would stop guys from undercutting the superstars. Instead, I think it causes the offensive players to be MORE reckless when driving to the basket because they’re no longer as worried about getting called for charges. Every rule change ends up having unintended consequences.


#17

In my opinion, drawing a charge, no matter where it is attempted on the court, is never a defensive move on the ball. It is an attempt to draw a foul. I’m not a fan of allowing something everywhere else on the floor other than a small circle. Either allow it everywhere or prohibit it everywhere.


#18

The 3 foot circle needs to come into play. How many times a season do we see a player take a charge, but he’s standing right underneath the basket? It’s a cop out for a poor defensive play, and the help defender arrives late and flops to the ground. This will eliminate that, thank goodness for that.


#19

I’d like to see the possession rule change to reward good defense. If the tie up occurs on a loose ball then use the possession arrow, but if it occurs in clear offense/defense situation then give the ball to the defense. Or just go back to using the jump ball for all tie ups.

I’d also like them to get rid of the defacto timeout when a player fouls out. Hey, if they guy is playing with 4 fouls shouldn’t the coaches and team be ready if he fouls again? Its an idiotic rule.


#20
[quote="TomF, post:9, topic:2383"]I don't know why people get so upset about flops. If you flop and the ref doesn't call it, your man has an unimpeded path to an easy basket and you are giving up an easy two.[/quote]

But lots of officials call flops charges. Now I hate the arc - I think if a defender legitimately gets position and gets run over it should be a charge regardless of where it occurs. We’ve done enough to give the advantage to the offensive players. I’m not interested on college basketball going the way of the NBA where all we see is who can jump high and drive to the basketball unimpeded.

Sounds like we don’t have a rules problem. We have a referee training problem. Let’s solve that problem instead of adding MORE rules for the refs to learn and enforce.

True.

I was thinking about this while watching a the few minutes of NBA that I could bear yesterday.

There was a dispute on a 3 point attempt. I was thinking of how incumbering the current rules are, with the ref actually having to see 2 things at once. How can they be looking at a foul on the shooting arm while also looking down to judge a 3 point attempt? It is extremely difficult to watch hand action going on above the waist while still trying to judge foot placement.