PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

OT: Oakland beats Tennessee

I had a little back and forth with Champ on playing stronger OOC and was amazed at Oakland’s OOC. FYI, Oakland is 2-26 vs. ranked opponents, but just knocked off 6th ranked Tennessee, which sort of brings to mind the saying, “if you think you can’t, you’ll be right”. Oakland obviously thinks they can.

I wonder who has a better shot at the tourney, PSU or Oakland, who was 0-4 vs. ranked opponents this year, losing by 2 to MSU. I saw the Purdue game, and it was tight til late. They play OSU in a few days. If anybody can give Sullinger a game, it might be Keith Benson. Playing teams like MSU, Purdue and Tenn, might have him better prepared. Without knowing any of the teams’ ability in their league(the Summit League, as informed by Champ which includes such powers as Oral Roberts) I’d bet they win it. And playing the OOC sked they did, wouldn’t bet they’ll be a one and done either. That coach would have PSU playing UCLA, Texas, Duke, UConn and Syracuse.

How the heck did that Benson kid wind up at a place like Oakland? He’s a very physical player. I love to see that kind of toughness. He looks like a man on a mission to prove he belongs in the NBA. Without a doubt I could see them knowcking off some very good teams in the tournament.

By the way I like the way that Oakland coach talks. He says you play to win you don’t play to lose hard fought games. He then goes on to say in 4 years no one will say they played Michigan State hard, they’d only remember if they won.

After hearing that Oakland beat Tennessee made me think how bad those 3 losses were to Ole Miss, Maryland, and Va Tech were. If Oakland can beat a ranked team where does our team stand?

I don’t think you grasp the difference in scheduling philosophy between coaching at a mid-major that’s picked to win their conference and coaching at a BCS school. If a PSU coach had them playing all those teams above along with a Big Ten slate, then they’d be a complete idiot. When you’re at a school like Oakland, you take on anyone you can in the non-conference, since that’s where you get some competition.

And I’ll still bet that they’ll be a one and done (if they make the dance). They’d probably be a 14 seed, and will spend the months of January-March playing stiffs while all of the BCS schools are playing the meat of their schedule. The Summit league is awful (North Dakota St is solid, but the rest of the league is very poor).

[quote="kidcoyote, post:1, topic:1646"]And playing the OOC sked they did, wouldn't bet they'll be a one and done either. That coach would have PSU playing UCLA, Texas, Duke, UConn and Syracuse.[/quote]

I don’t think you grasp the difference in scheduling philosophy between coaching at a mid-major that’s picked to win their conference and coaching at a BCS school. If a PSU coach had them playing all those teams above along with a Big Ten slate, then they’d be a complete idiot. When you’re at a school like Oakland, you take on anyone you can in the non-conference, since that’s where you get some competition.

And I’ll still bet that they’ll be a one and done (if they make the dance). They’d probably be a 14 seed, and will spend the months of January-March playing stiffs while all of the BCS schools are playing the meat of their schedule. The Summit league is awful (North Dakota St is solid, but the rest of the league is very poor).

Not exactly.

When you are at a school like Oakland, you take on as big an opponent as you can because that’s how you balance the athletic budget. It has nothing to do with wins or losses or getting to the tournament (the only way they go is to win the Summit Conference post season tournament), it’s all about the Benjamins. The bigger the opponent you play, the bigger your payday is likely to be. Oakland doesn’t have a football program to pay the bills, the basketball program has to carry that load for the school - and the best way to do that is by collecting big pay checks on the road.

On the topic of upsets, Louisville lost to Drexel.

ability to balance the budget is one of the primary reasons for some of these teams to take tough road games against top teams. that goes hand and hand with exposure and experience. athletic budgets vary from conference to conference and team to team. some schools balance their athletic budgets better than others. some schools have more budgetary limitations than others. certain mid major conferences sometimes produce a few ranked teams in a season so those teams in the upper tier mid-major conferences have a little more OOC slack than maybe a lower tiered conference with no ranked teams. and we try to avoid it, but uncertainty is hard to avoid, it’s human nature. For a mid-major school, how many of those tough OOC games you play could also depend on how many potential top 25 or top 50 teams you have in your own conference. (which is not much more than a guess on how good or bad you think the opponents you select on the schedule will be) you know when you play in a mid-major conference playing weak opposition within your conference, you know that to have any prayer of getting an at-large birth, you must win at least a few of those longshot OOC games due to the strength of schedule drop for the final 3 months of the season. Oakland has surprised some teams by playing them hard because they know how important winning some of these games are to their chances at the NCAA tournament. They know that each of these games against the big boys is more significant to their tournament aspirations than any one conference game they will play later on in the season.

Hogwash. The only prayer that Oakland has of getting a bid is to win their conference. The Summit is just too poor a league to warrant two teams getting a bid. Their non-conference games will have no effect on their tournament changes, nor for that matter will their conference wins. Like every other Summit League team before them, their only route to the dance is winning the conference tournament.

Oakland has talented athletic players. I would not want to play them.

Didn’t see if it was mentioned or not, but Benson went to Detroit Country Day and didn’t even start in high school. Probably a late bloomer, but that is pretty crazy.

Did you see them interview Brusier Fllint after the game? He must have said “we defended and rebounded” about 10 times. Seems like he pulls these upsets every few years.

I wouldn’t want to play THEM either :wink:

I saw the Purdue game. Benson had 14 rebs and 16 pts. to Johnson’s 11 and 25. Oakland plays Michigan Saturday. They have to be favored, if not, they’re a good bet despite it being at Ann Arbor. Then they play OSU soon. Should be interesting to see him vs. “The Beast”. Benson has 8 double doubles this year in 11 games.

Hogwash? You’re clearly just trying to disagree with me for the sake of disagreeing with me. You’re comments echo my thoughts, in that the Summit is a poor league and probably won’t receive an at-large bid. There only chance of getting an at-large bid (however minuscule) is by playing a tough out of conference like they are this year. And for a team in such a poor conference, just playing good teams in the OOC isn’t enough. i agree that many teams play these games for budgetary reasons, but the goal of any team should be to make the NCAA tournament, either by playing in a tough conference or having a tough OOC schedule, or both (as teams that are consistently highly ranked like Duke do) To have any chance for an at-large birth in a conference like the Summit League, without relying on winning the conference tournament, you have to play and win at least a few tough OOC games, the kind of games Oakland has been playing. this is the issue kidcoyote put out there, “who has a better shot at the tourney”. You saying “their only route to the dance is winning the conference tournament” while unlikely, isn’t necessarily true, especially with the tough OOC schedule they’ve played.

[quote=“kidcoyote, post:1, topic:1646”]I had a little back and forth with Champ on playing stronger OOC and was amazed at Oakland’s OOC. FYI, Oakland is 2-26 vs. ranked opponents, but just knocked off 6th ranked Tennessee, which sort of brings to mind the saying, “if you think you can’t, you’ll be right”. Oakland obviously thinks they can.

I wonder who has a better shot at the tourney, PSU or Oakland, who was 0-4 vs. ranked opponents this year, losing by 2 to MSU. I saw the Purdue game, and it was tight til late. They play OSU in a few days. If anybody can give Sullinger a game, it might be Keith Benson. Playing teams like MSU, Purdue and Tenn, might have him better prepared. Without knowing any of the teams’ ability in their league(the Summit League, as informed by Champ which includes such powers as Oral Roberts) I’d bet they win it. And playing the OOC sked they did, wouldn’t bet they’ll be a one and done either. That coach would have PSU playing UCLA, Texas, Duke, UConn and Syracuse.[/quote]

I feel a bet.

Now watch as kid looks for a good way not to take it.

[quote="UncleLar, post:9, topic:1646"]Hogwash. The only prayer that Oakland has of getting a bid is to win their conference. The Summit is just too poor a league to warrant two teams getting a bid. Their non-conference games will have no effect on their tournament changes, nor for that matter will their conference wins. Like every other Summit League team before them, their only route to the dance is winning the conference tournament.[/quote]

Hogwash? You’re clearly just trying to disagree with me for the sake of disagreeing with me. You’re comments echo my thoughts, in that the Summit is a poor league and probably won’t receive an at-large bid. There only chance of getting an at-large bid (however minuscule) is by playing a tough out of conference like they are this year. And for a team in such a poor conference, just playing good teams in the OOC isn’t enough. i agree that many teams play these games for budgetary reasons, but the goal of any team should be to make the NCAA tournament, either by playing in a tough conference or having a tough OOC schedule, or both (as teams that are consistently highly ranked like Duke do) To have any chance for an at-large birth in a conference like the Summit League, without relying on winning the conference tournament, you have to play and win at least a few tough OOC games, the kind of games Oakland has been playing. this is the issue kidcoyote put out there, “who has a better shot at the tourney”. You saying “their only route to the dance is winning the conference tournament” while unlikely, isn’t necessarily true, especially with the tough OOC schedule they’ve played.

I’m arguing with you because you are wrong. They booked the schedule for the money - pure and simple. They didn’t book the games believing they would somehow get an at-large bid. I’m trying to demonstrate to you that the chances for ANY Summit league team to get an at large bid is so remote that it would be downright foolish to arrange your schedule thinking you could. They’ve been booking Top 20 type teams every year since they started playing D1 hoops a decade ago. That’s how they pay their bills.

[quote="kidcoyote, post:1, topic:1646"]I had a little back and forth with Champ on playing stronger OOC and was amazed at Oakland's OOC. FYI, Oakland is 2-26 vs. ranked opponents, but just knocked off 6th ranked Tennessee, which sort of brings to mind the saying, "if you think you can't, you'll be right". Oakland obviously thinks they can.

I wonder who has a better shot at the tourney, PSU or Oakland, who was 0-4 vs. ranked opponents this year, losing by 2 to MSU. I saw the Purdue game, and it was tight til late. They play OSU in a few days. If anybody can give Sullinger a game, it might be Keith Benson. Playing teams like MSU, Purdue and Tenn, might have him better prepared. Without knowing any of the teams’ ability in their league(the Summit League, as informed by Champ which includes such powers as Oral Roberts) I’d bet they win it. And playing the OOC sked they did, wouldn’t bet they’ll be a one and done either. That coach would have PSU playing UCLA, Texas, Duke, UConn and Syracuse.[/quote]

I feel a bet.

Now watch as kid looks for a good way not to take it.

You must be joking. I took the Curry bet while most laughed at my foolishness. 16 was ridiculous, yet it happened. My reasoning was simple. The prior year, OJ Mayo, Derrick Rose and Eric Gordon averaged 16+, and he was a better scorer. Some analysis, huh?

I’ll take the Michigan bet even. You’re the one who will avoid it. You’ll want 15 points. I might go to the Purdue game, drive from NYC for the game then back, and you can pay up then. :wink:

So it’s a deal. Even or pick 'em for this Saturday. One rule: you can’t wait til the game starts to take the offer. I have Oakland.

You’re trying to pick a fight. There is no substantive difference of opinion here, you are trying to create one. It won’t work since we didn’t have a disagreement. I agreed with your point about the budget being the prime purpose to these games. I didn’t say they booked the games “believing they would somehow get an at-large bid”. that is speculative, but many mid-majors do in fact schedule tough OOC games in an effort to build their NCAA tournament resume. (in addition, of course, to the fact that they want to balance their budget)

kidcoyote’s question was “I wonder who has a better shot at the tourney, PSU or Oakland”. Discussing Oakland’s OOC schedule and how those games affect their tournament chances is essential to developing conclusions in this regard. Of course Oakland has a much easier path to the automatic bid through the conference tournament, but that goes without saying.

Yes, clearly it would be difficult to assume you are in a position to make the tournament every year playing in a poor mid-major conference. the chances for any Summit league team to get an at large bid is remote, but the issue at hand is exactly how remote is it. Despite Oakland’s tough OOC schedule, their conference schedule will make it very tough. So tough in fact that it may mean that Oakland has to win at least a few of these OOC games to even be considered for an at-large birth with teams from major conferences. Oakland’s RPI will drop as the season goes on, but how far will it drop, and how will it compare to PSU’s?

You may think it “downright foolish to arrange your schedule thinking you could”, but that doesn’t mean it can’t result in an at-large birth. To make that remote chance a realistic chance at an at-large bid in a conference like the Summit League, you probably have to win more than a few of tough OOC games like the ones on Oakland’s schedule.

[quote="kidcoyote, post:1, topic:1646"]I had a little back and forth with Champ on playing stronger OOC and was amazed at Oakland's OOC. FYI, Oakland is 2-26 vs. ranked opponents, but just knocked off 6th ranked Tennessee, which sort of brings to mind the saying, "if you think you can't, you'll be right". Oakland obviously thinks they can.

I wonder who has a better shot at the tourney, PSU or Oakland, who was 0-4 vs. ranked opponents this year, losing by 2 to MSU. I saw the Purdue game, and it was tight til late. They play OSU in a few days. If anybody can give Sullinger a game, it might be Keith Benson. Playing teams like MSU, Purdue and Tenn, might have him better prepared. Without knowing any of the teams’ ability in their league(the Summit League, as informed by Champ which includes such powers as Oral Roberts) I’d bet they win it. And playing the OOC sked they did, wouldn’t bet they’ll be a one and done either. That coach would have PSU playing UCLA, Texas, Duke, UConn and Syracuse.[/quote]

I feel a bet.

Now watch as kid looks for a good way not to take it.

You must be joking. I took the Curry bet while most laughed at my foolishness. 16 was ridiculous, yet it happened. My reasoning was simple. The prior year, OJ Mayo, Derrick Rose and Eric Gordon averaged 16+, and he was a better scorer. Some analysis, huh?

I’ll take the Michigan bet even. You’re the one who will avoid it. You’ll want 15 points. I might go to the Purdue game, drive from NYC for the game then back, and you can pay up then. :wink:

So it’s a deal. Even or pick 'em for this Saturday. One rule: you can’t wait til the game starts to take the offer. I have Oakland.

…and there it is. The dodge. I make a bet ON HIS STATEMENT, and he tries to complete change everything.

If I thought Michigan would be a TOP 4 seed in the NCAA tourmament, your offer would make sense. YOU SAID about the tournement. I was taking a bet that your initiated. Now, you back out.

Did you say this… "And playing the OOC sked they did, wouldn’t bet they’ll be a one and done either"
Well, I WILL bet that they are 1 and done !!!

I don’t know how the numbers work out, but I’m thinkin it would take a pretty amazing run through the OOC and a nearly undefeated Summit record for Oakland to receive an at-large bid. The point is, Oakland does not play that schedule with at-large in mind.
Maybe a few great wins would help their seeding if they do happen to make it, I don’t know.

I follow the Summit and it is a pretty decent league, I think. Oakland is the favorite this year, with ORU, IUPUI, and NDSU expecected to contend-all 4 have been good mid-major programs this decade. Plus South Dakota St. won at Iowa, for whatever that’s worth. The bottom of the league is an RPI killer, I’m sure. Centenary is going D3 after this year or next, and some of the others have struggled. University of South Dakota will be added after next year.
All of those teams in that league understand that their path to the NCAA must go through the conference tournament and that’s it.