OT: Government Jobs


#1

Does this make anyone else ill? And angry? How did we get here? I should’ve have listened to my father( a policeman, a child of the Depression) and taken a civil service exam. Why go into indebtedness to go to college, why risk capital going into business, why struggle through the financial and academic requirements of Med school(when your income might soon go from regulated to dictated) when there are jobs like these? Add in the 6-8 weeks of paid vacation and the defined benefit plans so you don’t have to save a nickel for retirement, and these jobs are unreal. Sign me up for the revolution.

http://www.nationalreview.com/onthenews/?q=OGE2ODdjNWI0MDE2OGIxMTZmMDIyYWYwYTc5NWU3ZWI=


#2

Kid this only works if you or your family is somehow politically connected. Do yourself a favor and read new articles from the following papers Wilkes-Barre, Pa Citizens Voice www.citizensvoice.com or Wilkes-Barre Time Leader www.timesleader.com. These two papers have been chronicling what is wrong with politics. We have had 22 county officials arrested by the Feds since last year. And from what I have heard as rumors it is just the tip of the iceberg. And if it is this bad in a County gov’t what scares me is how bad is it at the state and fed level. If you can’t tell I have lost all faith in the system.


#3

I’m with you, kid, makes me sick. And government just continues to get bigger and bigger. Makes one wonder about the future.

There was a good article in the Harrisburg Patriot today about the PA teachers’ retirement fund, and the exorbitant amount it is going to cost taxpayers in the next couple years. Unfortunately, only part of the article is online:

School retirement costs begin their climb

It said that most PA teachers and state workers will be able to retire and continue to receive full salary for the rest of their lives. Sheesh, sounds like a good deal to me! I’m not anti-teacher or anything (my dad was a teacher), but I think teachers and government jobs need to catch up with the rest of the world and get rid of the defined-benefit retirement plans.


#4

Kid…not sure where you’re getting all your info. I can tell you where I work in central PA, the majority of employees make less than $100K/year. The max vacation rate is 5 weeks/year (after 15 years of service) - no one gets 6-8 weeks

All federal employees contribute towards retirement. There are two retirement systems:

  1. FERS system - employees hired after 1982 - not sure of the exact numbers but I think it’s between 7-15%
  2. CSRS system and they contribute 7% of their salary towards retirement plus Medicare contributions.

Original thought was to attract good employees you needed a good retirement package.


#5

My father made a good living helping teachers retire early with their generous benefits. However, they contributed to their pensions, at pretty hefty rates, for all the years they taught.


#6

their taxes go up to make up for the losses in the public retirement plans. Private sector employees get hit on both ends while public sector employees are not harmed.


#7

Teachers do make large contributions to their retirement plans, but in many states, they do not pay social security retirement taxes, so its kind of a wash. They do not get social security retirement benefits, so their teacher’s retirement is their sole retirement benefit (unless they contribted to a 403B). They do pay medicare.


#8

If you add in the 13 days of sick leave to the 26 days of annual leave, there’s your 8 weeks. While sick leave isn’t vacation, most private employers don’t have the separate designations, so if you are sick, you’re using your vacation or paid time off. Add in 10 holidays, paid admin leave if the office is closed because of weather, holidays for the funerals of Presidents, 4 hours of holiday usually on Christmas Eve, 1 hour early dimissals before other holidays, and my favorite that they have in Mechanicsburg… 3 hours of time on the clock every week to work out, and you see how few hours are really worked.

Are you aware that employees in Franklin and York Counties get the Washington DC pay differential?? So people that live in Perry County and work at DDC in New Cumberland get the 23% DC locality bump.

When I started working for the government 25 years ago, there definitely was a large pay differential between public and private pay that made it tough for the government to compete for talent. The government did things nationwide like increasing the annual pay increases to help bring the pay in line with the private sector. They also went with regional pay bands, so that the pay more represented the local cost of living. As best as I remember, though, no regions pay went down. They all went up. At the local level, there has definitely been grade inflation going on. At the office I used to work in, jobs that were GS-9 fifteen years ago are now in some cases GS-12.

Now after almost two years of recession (or whatever it is) and an ever increasing deficit, people are starting to pay attention to how much these employees are actually making and how much their pay has been increasing, while those in the private sector are seeing jobs disappear and their pay shrink in many cases.

And I am not anti-federal employee. I loved the 15 years I worked for the government. It’s just that things are getting a little crazy, especially the 3 paid hours a week to exercise.


#9

High school lets out at 2:30. Teachers stay to provide help for the kids until 3:00. Except for coaches, etc. the place is pretty much empty by 3:05.

The first class starts at 7:30. That’s a 7 hour work day with a 30 minute lunch. That day includes monitoring study halls (now called advisement).

Who else has a 7 hour work day?
Who else has 3 weeks paid time off during the school year and 11 more paid weeks off during the summer (14 weeks total)?
Who else contributes only 10% towards their medical insurance premiums and has a mere $5 co-pay?
What private sector worker can retire with full benefits after 20 years? (thats why they are not allowed to double dip into social security)


#10

[quote=“bdroc, post:9, topic:472”]High school lets out at 2:30. Teachers stay to provide help for the kids until 3:00. Except for coaches, etc. the place is pretty much empty by 3:05.

The first class starts at 7:30. That’s a 7 hour work day with a 30 minute lunch. That day includes monitoring study halls (now called advisement).

Who else has a 7 hour work day?
Who else has 3 weeks paid time off during the school year and 11 more paid weeks off during the summer (14 weeks total)?
Who else contributes only 10% towards their medical insurance premiums and has a mere $5 co-pay?
What private sector worker can retire with full benefits after 20 years? (thats why they are not allowed to double dip into social security)[/quote]

Teachers do take lots work home, Do you think they grade all those papers and plan out lessons during school hours?


#11
[quote="bdroc, post:9, topic:472"]High school lets out at 2:30. Teachers stay to provide help for the kids until 3:00. Except for coaches, etc. the place is pretty much empty by 3:05.

The first class starts at 7:30. That’s a 7 hour work day with a 30 minute lunch. That day includes monitoring study halls (now called advisement).

Who else has a 7 hour work day?
Who else has 3 weeks paid time off during the school year and 11 more paid weeks off during the summer (14 weeks total)?
Who else contributes only 10% towards their medical insurance premiums and has a mere $5 co-pay?
What private sector worker can retire with full benefits after 20 years? (thats why they are not allowed to double dip into social security)[/quote]

Teachers do take lots work home, Do you think they grade all those papers and plan out lessons during school hours?

I’m not bashing teachers, but I really have to ask. If you are teaching the same subject year after year, do you really have to do new lesson plans? I am not a teacher so I am just asking, not bashing.


#12
[quote="bdroc, post:9, topic:472"]High school lets out at 2:30. Teachers stay to provide help for the kids until 3:00. Except for coaches, etc. the place is pretty much empty by 3:05.

The first class starts at 7:30. That’s a 7 hour work day with a 30 minute lunch. That day includes monitoring study halls (now called advisement).

Who else has a 7 hour work day?
Who else has 3 weeks paid time off during the school year and 11 more paid weeks off during the summer (14 weeks total)?
Who else contributes only 10% towards their medical insurance premiums and has a mere $5 co-pay?
What private sector worker can retire with full benefits after 20 years? (thats why they are not allowed to double dip into social security)[/quote]

Teachers do take lots work home, Do you think they grade all those papers and plan out lessons during school hours?

I’m not bashing teachers, but I really have to ask. If you are teaching the same subject year after year, do you really have to do new lesson plans? I am not a teacher so I am just asking, not bashing.

Speaking as a college professor… yes, you do. Not nearly as much prep is involved as you repeat classes, but you definitely need to review your materials before your classes to know what you need to discuss. Not to mention most of us do change things around every year to keep the topics fresh. Certainly, some people can “mail it in”, but most dedicated teachers want to keep things current, add in new ideas and materials, and mix things up. Otherwise, your teaching suffers and you get very very disheartened. It’s much more fun for most of us to keep modifying and updating our courses.


#13

[quote=“kidcoyote, post:1, topic:472”]Does this make anyone else ill? And angry? How did we get here? I should’ve have listened to my father( a policeman, a child of the Depression) and taken a civil service exam. Why go into indebtedness to go to college, why risk capital going into business, why struggle through the financial and academic requirements of Med school(when your income might soon go from regulated to dictated) when there are jobs like these? Add in the 6-8 weeks of paid vacation and the defined benefit plans so you don’t have to save a nickel for retirement, and these jobs are unreal. Sign me up for the revolution.

http://www.nationalreview.com/onthenews/?q=OGE2ODdjNWI0MDE2OGIxMTZmMDIyYWYwYTc5NWU3ZWI=[/quote]

Wow- words can’t even describe how way off base you are. Thanks for demeaning the hard work I put in to graduating college with a 3.5 GPA in Accounting (so I could be accepted into an intern program) and working my way up through the ranks of the Navy by claiming we are all overpaid morons who passed some dumb ole civil service test…seriously do they even exist- I have never seen one in almost 10 years of service?? Everyone I work with that doesn’t have a degree is making 30-40K max and has no shot at ever advancing past that…And as Bleeding Lion pointed out we do contribute towards our retirement and TSP requires us to put away money to receive anything other than the 1% contribution by the government.


#14
[quote="kidcoyote, post:1, topic:472"]Does this make anyone else ill? And angry? How did we get here? I should've have listened to my father( a policeman, a child of the Depression) and taken a civil service exam. Why go into indebtedness to go to college, why risk capital going into business, why struggle through the financial and academic requirements of Med school(when your income might soon go from regulated to dictated) when there are jobs like these? Add in the 6-8 weeks of paid vacation and the defined benefit plans so you don't have to save a nickel for retirement, and these jobs are unreal. Sign me up for the revolution.

http://www.nationalreview.com/onthenews/?q=OGE2ODdjNWI0MDE2OGIxMTZmMDIyYWYwYTc5NWU3ZWI=[/quote]

Wow- words can’t even describe how way off base you are. Thanks for demeaning the hard work I put in to graduating college with a 3.5 GPA in Accounting (so I could be accepted into an intern program) and working my way up through the ranks of the Navy by claiming we are all overpaid morons who passed some dumb ole civil service test…seriously do they even exist- I have never seen one in almost 10 years of service?? Everyone I work with that doesn’t have a degree is making 30-40K max and has no shot at ever advancing past that…And as Bleeding Lion pointed out we do contribute towards our retirement and TSP requires us to put away money to receive anything other than the 1% contribution by the government.

I wouldn’t get too excited. This is just a religious belief by some. Unfortunately, those people took over the government for a while and drove the country over a cliff. Yet they still hold on to their beliefs. This is what is known as faith. And these are people who believe they are doing “God’s work.” Perhaps they should get together with their ideological cousins, The Family.


#15

There has to be some funny math done for this article. Gov’t employees are notoriously underpaid compared to their commercial/private sector peers. But their benefits are phenomenal.

My wife makes about 20% less salary than her commercial counterparts. And she’s in a career field in high demand. Meanwhile, due to some ongoing medical problems, she’s racked up some pretty hefty medical bills. Insurance has covered about 97% of those bills.

So I want to know how they came up with those numbers.


#16

[quote=“Tom, post:15, topic:472”]There has to be some funny math done for this article. Gov’t employees are notoriously underpaid compared to their commercial/private sector peers. But their benefits are phenomenal.

My wife makes about 20% less salary than her commercial counterparts. And she’s in a career field in high demand. Meanwhile, due to some ongoing medical problems, she’s racked up some pretty hefty medical bills. Insurance has covered about 97% of those bills.

So I want to know how they came up with those numbers. [/quote]
The defense merit pay system added quite a bit to this-“The highest-paid federal employees are doing best of all on salary increases. Defense Department civilian employees earning $150,000 or more increased from 1,868 in December 2007 to 10,100 in June 2009, the most recent figure available.” If that is just went up above $150,000, I can imagine the increase at $100,000 is pretty high as well. It seemed to serve to mostly help those at the top of the food chain. "Congress created a new National Security Pay Scale for the Defense Department to reward merit, in addition to the across-the-board increases. The merit raises, which started in January 2008, were larger than expected and rewarded high-ranking employees. In October, Congress voted to end the new pay scale by 2012."
Since defense is the largest government employer, this seems to be a big part of the increase in <100k folks.
The other big contributor is probably the fact that the federal government has a lot of older folks who have been there for a long time, since step increases accrue every year, and when you have people who have been there a long time.
/federal employee who most definitely does NOT get 6-8 weeks vacation (closer to 2), makes much less than 100k and has an advanced degree. Also, does not get paid for 3 hours a week of exercise. This masterpiece is sculpted on a stricly pro bono basis. ;D


#17

No one I work with (50% of my coworkers are federal employees) liked the merit pay system, because they knew it’d reward favoritism, not merit.


#18

[quote=“Tom, post:15, topic:472”]There has to be some funny math done for this article. Gov’t employees are notoriously underpaid compared to their commercial/private sector peers. But their benefits are phenomenal.

My wife makes about 20% less salary than her commercial counterparts. And she’s in a career field in high demand. Meanwhile, due to some ongoing medical problems, she’s racked up some pretty hefty medical bills. Insurance has covered about 97% of those bills.

So I want to know how they came up with those numbers. [/quote]

Most govt employees I know are on their spouse’s insurence, because the private sector usually has much better benefits than the Feds.

That “phenominal benefits” this is a misnomer, that went the way of the cheap Vegas buffet.


#19
[quote="bdroc, post:9, topic:472"]High school lets out at 2:30. Teachers stay to provide help for the kids until 3:00. Except for coaches, etc. the place is pretty much empty by 3:05.

The first class starts at 7:30. That’s a 7 hour work day with a 30 minute lunch. That day includes monitoring study halls (now called advisement).

Who else has a 7 hour work day?
Who else has 3 weeks paid time off during the school year and 11 more paid weeks off during the summer (14 weeks total)?
Who else contributes only 10% towards their medical insurance premiums and has a mere $5 co-pay?
What private sector worker can retire with full benefits after 20 years? (thats why they are not allowed to double dip into social security)[/quote]

Teachers do take lots work home, Do you think they grade all those papers and plan out lessons during school hours?

I’m not bashing teachers, but I really have to ask. If you are teaching the same subject year after year, do you really have to do new lesson plans? I am not a teacher so I am just asking, not bashing.

Speaking as a college professor… yes, you do. Not nearly as much prep is involved as you repeat classes, but you definitely need to review your materials before your classes to know what you need to discuss. Not to mention most of us do change things around every year to keep the topics fresh. Certainly, some people can “mail it in”, but most dedicated teachers want to keep things current, add in new ideas and materials, and mix things up. Otherwise, your teaching suffers and you get very very disheartened. It’s much more fun for most of us to keep modifying and updating our courses.

College professors are the biggest skate job of all time. The only thing comparable to the work schedule and pay of a college professor are the brothel workers in Nevada.


#20
[quote="Tom, post:15, topic:472"]There has to be some funny math done for this article. Gov't employees are notoriously underpaid compared to their commercial/private sector peers. But their benefits are phenomenal.

My wife makes about 20% less salary than her commercial counterparts. And she’s in a career field in high demand. Meanwhile, due to some ongoing medical problems, she’s racked up some pretty hefty medical bills. Insurance has covered about 97% of those bills.

So I want to know how they came up with those numbers.[/quote]

Most govt employees I know are on their spouse’s insurence, because the private sector usually has much better benefits than the Feds.

That “phenominal benefits” this is a misnomer, that went the way of the cheap Vegas buffet.

Speaking from personal experience, I disagree.