OT - Bobby Bowden


#1

Watching the chairman of the board of trustees get involved at Florida State has been pretty comical. The idea that the board chair would get personally involved really denigrates the school, in my opinion.

And to see Bowden’s obvious discomfort when being asked about it is disgraceful (not dissing the reporters, it’s definitely required that they do so). Especially when you consider how at ease he has been with the media even during tough times. This one is clearly getting to him.

I know Bowden catches a lot of crap from Penn State fans, but I’ve always liked the guy. I don’t think he is as concerned about academics as Paterno, but I think he is well into the right side of the college football coaching continuum when it comes to caring about the players, and that’s no small matter. Even if he has trouble remembering their names.

Bowden definitely put Florida State on the map as much as Paterno did Penn State.


#2

DAD GUMMIT! :wink:


#3

More so actually. Florida State was nothing until Bowden took over while we were a moderately successful program.


#4

Joe may have made the font bigger on the map, but PSU certainly was on the map when Joe got there.

FSU on the other hand…


#5

I’ve never known what to think about him. I’ve never really like him, but Joe always says he’s a great guy, and for the most part I sided with Joe since he knows Bowden and I dont. The longer and longer this goes on the more I have to wonder how much of a “great guy” he really is.


#6
[quote="tjb, post:1, topic:85"][b]Bowden definitely put Florida State on the map as much as Paterno did Penn State. [/b][/quote]

More so actually. Florida State was nothing until Bowden took over while we were a moderately successful program.

Actually, they were a girls school. One of my interior designers was a graduate and it was an al,l womans college when she was there, and she was a very nice young woman in the 1980’s./


#7

I have to wonder how well Joe really knows Bowden. Many people thought that they knew Madoff pretty well too.

I thought I had better edit this post. I am not comparing Bowden with Madoff. Just trying to make the point that there are different levels of “knowing”. For example, ask David Letterman’s wife.


#8

Watching the goings-on at FSU reminds me of how pretty much the same thing could have happened at PSU when we suffered through four losing seasons in five years. I think that if it were not for the tremendous prestige that JoePa has at PSU and nationally, he would have been removed at head coach.


#9

The thing that blows my mind is that this is all completely unneccessary.

Bowden says he wants to coach until 2010, Fisher’s bonus will kick in at that time, and the new contract drawn up for Fisher doesn’t have to take effect until 2010.

Everything is lined up for Bowden to step down after 2010 and Fisher take over, so it’s almost idiotic for that guy to try pushing the agenda. It’s a stupid move.


#10

wish they’d put an exit plan in place for Joe already. Our coaching staff needs a serious overhaul if we ever want to think about a National Title again… even these couple years recently where we had 1 loss seasons we were never really anywhere close to the teams who end up winning it all.

Just frustrating to see the old man continue sticking around… don’t get me wrong, I think Joe’s done a helluva lot of good his entire time here. But as far as being a football coach, I can’t say what he’s done here is “good” in that realm the last 10 years. Whether he’s pulling the strings at this point or not is besides the point, he’s ultimately deciding who’s on the staff and who isn’t and if he isn’t capable of developing our players better through his own hand or his assistants, than he’s failing those kids and the program.

now i’ll wait for everyone to come in and defend how he puts the school first and all that jazz… ::slight_smile:


#11

[quote=“Craftsy21, post:10, topic:85”]wish they’d put an exit plan in place for Joe already. Our coaching staff needs a serious overhaul if we ever want to think about a National Title again… even these couple years recently where we had 1 loss seasons we were never really anywhere close to the teams who end up winning it all.

Just frustrating to see the old man continue sticking around… don’t get me wrong, I think Joe’s done a helluva lot of good his entire time here. But as far as being a football coach, I can’t say what he’s done here is “good” in that realm the last 10 years. Whether he’s pulling the strings at this point or not is besides the point, he’s ultimately deciding who’s on the staff and who isn’t and if he isn’t capable of developing our players better through his own hand or his assistants, than he’s failing those kids and the program.

now i’ll wait for everyone to come in and defend how he puts the school first and all that jazz… ::)[/quote]

I’ll bite. We have one of the best coaches of all time, and he is still one of the best. I like the kind of program he runs but I think he wins enough and at a high enough level that we should be thrilled for that, not just satisfied.


#12

I think the difference between the two is that Joe functions (many accuse him of micro managing) while Booby is just a figure head. I have a friend who follows WVU sports VERY closely for many years. He was telling me about the Bowden years at WVU. His opinion (which is usually very knowledgeable) was that Bowden was NOT liked at WVU at all by fans nor the administration.


#13

I would disagree as well with Craftsy. I think we have a great coaching staff. We have more talent then we have had in a long long time and depth at most positions will be unreal next year. Which coaches would you replace. I would be careful with what you wish for. The grass may look greener but it’s usually not.


#14

[quote=“Craftsy21, post:10, topic:85”]wish they’d put an exit plan in place for Joe already. Our coaching staff needs a serious overhaul if we ever want to think about a National Title again… even these couple years recently where we had 1 loss seasons we were never really anywhere close to the teams who end up winning it all.

Just frustrating to see the old man continue sticking around… don’t get me wrong, I think Joe’s done a helluva lot of good his entire time here. But as far as being a football coach, I can’t say what he’s done here is “good” in that realm the last 10 years. Whether he’s pulling the strings at this point or not is besides the point, he’s ultimately deciding who’s on the staff and who isn’t and if he isn’t capable of developing our players better through his own hand or his assistants, than he’s failing those kids and the program.

now i’ll wait for everyone to come in and defend how he puts the school first and all that jazz… ::)[/quote]

From the sounds of it, the exit plan is what’s causing all the problems at Florida State. I take that as an example of why NOT to have one.


#15

you’re right, because coaching changes never work at big time programs. I mean, look at how badly Florida messed up. And don’t get me started on Alabama.

Look - I get what you’re saying, but people severely inflate the job that SOME of our coaches are doing. If the talent we get in here is as good as all the “experts” claim, we ought to be playing for a national title now and again. We ought to be sending pro’s to the league at more positions than just Linebacker and defensive end/tackle.

When is the last time a heralded QB came into penn state and left better than when he started? Who is the last Penn State running back or wide receiver to make an impact in the NFL?

Like it or not - our entire offensive side of the game is a joke, from playcalling to player development and everything in between. And it’s been that way since about 1995. Michael Robinson saved a bunch of jobs for a few years, but it’s only so long that season will protect these fools. I know Jay Paterno is the popular head to throw under the chopping block, and from everything I hear from “insiders”, he really does deserve most of the criticism. But I’m sure he can’t be the only one not doing their job well enough. It just seems there’s far too many people comfortable in their positions because they are in good with Joe, and Joe seems to stubborn to ever try to change his ways at this point.

So while it technically is his program given all he’s done for it, it won’t always be - and it’s getting to the point where Penn State is not all that relevant in college football anymore outside of Happy Valley. It will seemingly only get worse the longer he sticks around and the program sits in limbo.


#16

That’s one pretty big IF.

I’d say that the chances are a lot better that our coaches know what they are doing than it is that the so called recruiting experts know how to evaluate high school talent.

Besides how can you even say that? How often have we had one of the top recruiting classes? We only occasionally make it into the top ten.

Here’s our Rivals rankings the last nine years.

2002 = 19th.
2003 = NR.
2004 = 14th.
2005 = 25th.
2006 = 6th.
2007 = 24th.
2008 = NR.
2009 = 24th.
2010 = 5th.

How in heaven’s name does that translate into playing for the national championship multiple times?


#17

Really? Has the average rank of our recruiting classes really outpaced our average final ranking? I’d love to see the numbers side by side. Would be interesting comparison.


#18

Recruiting class for that year, followed by AP ranking at season’s end.

2002 - 19th in Recruiting Class, finished 16th in polls
2003 - NR Class, NR in polls
2004 - 14th Class, NR in polls
2005 - 25th class, 3rd in polls
2006 - 6th Class, 24th in polls
2007 - 24th Class, NR in AP (25th in coaches)
2008 - NR class, 8th in Polls
2009 - 24th Class, not looking great

In 2005 you can see we reaped the rewards from that 2002 class I guess… although 2006 doesn’t really match up with that, since those kids would be seniors then for the most part and you’d also get the sophomores from that 14th ranked class in 2004.

I don’t know - I’d say if we end up not ranked again this year, that’s pretty sad. Having top 25 recruiting classes or better nearly every year seems like it ought to pay off a bit more for us. Then again, it seems most of us (including those rushing to Joe’s defense in here) are okay with just being a slightly above average program and so maybe these numbers looked great to them.

But in typical lar fashion - he likes to pull out the one piece of a post he can quickly try to refute with a copy/paste while ignoring the heart of the matter… which is that we are headed further away from the glory days than we are headed back towards them under Joe. And the longer he sticks around, the longer and more difficult it will be to ever get back to being one of the elite programs in the country.

Really though - somebody explain to me why we haven’t developed an NFL quarterback since Kerry Collins? Why it’s been 15 years since we put a meaningful specialist player in the league… seriously, it’s almost all linebackers and defensive linemen. A few good d-backs now and again, and some offensive linemen. No qb’s, no rb’s, a small handful of WR’s but mostly those are all older guys…

There’s something wrong with the offensive coaches…can any of you explain what it is?


#19

[quote=“Craftsy21, post:18, topic:85”]Recruiting class for that year, followed by AP ranking at season’s end.

2002 - 19th in Recruiting Class, finished 16th in polls
2003 - NR Class, NR in polls
2004 - 14th Class, NR in polls
2005 - 25th class, 3rd in polls
2006 - 6th Class, 24th in polls
2007 - 24th Class, NR in AP (25th in coaches)
2008 - NR class, 8th in Polls
2009 - 24th Class, not looking great

In 2005 you can see we reaped the rewards from that 2002 class I guess… although 2006 doesn’t really match up with that, since those kids would be seniors then for the most part and you’d also get the sophomores from that 14th ranked class in 2004.

I don’t know - I’d say if we end up not ranked again this year, that’s pretty sad. Having top 25 recruiting classes or better nearly every year seems like it ought to pay off a bit more for us. Then again, it seems most of us (including those rushing to Joe’s defense in here) are okay with just being a slightly above average program and so maybe these numbers looked great to them.

But in typical lar fashion - he likes to pull out the one piece of a post he can quickly try to refute with a copy/paste while ignoring the heart of the matter… which is that we are headed further away from the glory days than we are headed back towards them under Joe. And the longer he sticks around, the longer and more difficult it will be to ever get back to being one of the elite programs in the country.

Really though - somebody explain to me why we haven’t developed an NFL quarterback since Kerry Collins? Why it’s been 15 years since we put a meaningful specialist player in the league… seriously, it’s almost all linebackers and defensive linemen. A few good d-backs now and again, and some offensive linemen. No qb’s, no rb’s, a small handful of WR’s but mostly those are all older guys…

There’s something wrong with the offensive coaches…can any of you explain what it is?[/quote]

What’s Larry Johnson? Chopped liver?

Kenny Watson was an NFL running back for eight years. Omar Easy - four years. Michael Robinson is in his fourth year. Are or were they stars? No. But they all exceeded the average life of an NFL running back so that’s saying something.

“A small handful of wide receivers - mostly older guys”? All three receivers from last year are collecting NFL paychecks.

Besides, who cares what they do in the pros? What matters is how they produce at PSU, not the NFL.

And talk about switching gears? One minute your saying that our recruiting indicates we should be playing for the national championship regularly, then all of a sudden when I post data that shows are recruiting isn’t anywhere near that, you make a comment like

“Having top 25 recruiting classes or better nearly every year seems like it ought to pay off a bit more for us.”

Let’s see, over the last nine years we have had all of three classes that were ranked better than 24th. In that time frame we finished better than 24th in the rankings the SAME number of times (and we probably will this year even if you think we aren’t “looking great”). Seems like to me that we are right on, if not ahead of, schedule.

We also have one of the top two recruiting classes in the country, yet you are screaming “the sky is falling”. What seems to be the problem?


#20

Plus, our offense has been pretty darn good since the skills of Michael Robinson got them to open it up.