No inside game on Sat. and more


#1

I usually attend one game a year - it was Mich. State this Sat.- during the warm ups before the game NO Coaches were present during the warm ups - the team shot lay ups and then did a slam dunking routine - I mean this was bouncing the ball high and then dunking it - off the back board and dunking it - it looked like they were in a slam dunk contest - NO Coaches on the floor!!! I am sure they could have put there time to better use.

My next observation - play with no centers - go with the forwards and have them crash the boards when Frazier or Battle goes to the hoop - Mich. St. did it all game - they might even get a pass for a lay up - no inside game from these big men ( Ott and Jones) - you might as well play with out them - they don’t score or rebound anyway - they can come in for a sub but it is no use having one in the game all the time from stat to finish - go with the forwards - Jackson and Brooks - they can not do any worse - we have to try something for next year or it is going to be another long season.

I am no expert but I am getting tired of seeing the same old game plan every game - shoot the 3 pointer - don’t work the ball inside and kick it out for an open shot - no ball movement - our big men come to the top of the circle - then they get the ball and do nothing - we have 5 Coaches - can’t anyone one of them make a change or is it’s Ed’s call - if it is then he is responsible - it is that simple.


#2

[quote=“coalcracker, post:1, topic:841”]I usually attend one game a year - it was Mich. State this Sat.- during the warm ups before the game NO Coaches were present during the warm ups - the team shot lay ups and then did a slam dunking routine - I mean this was bouncing the ball high and then dunking it - off the back board and dunking it - it looked like they were in a slam dunk contest - NO Coaches on the floor!!! I am sure they could have put there time to better use.

My next observation - play with no centers - go with the forwards and have them crash the boards when Frazier or Battle goes to the hoop - Mich. St. did it all game - they might even get a pass for a lay up - no inside game from these big men ( Ott and Jones) - you might as well play with out them - they don’t score or rebound anyway - they can come in for a sub but it is no use having one in the game all the time from stat to finish - go with the forwards - Jackson and Brooks - they can not do any worse - we have to try something for next year or it is going to be another long season.

I am no expert but I am getting tired of seeing the same old game plan every game - shoot the 3 pointer - don’t work the ball inside and kick it out for an open shot - no ball movement - our big men come to the top of the circle - then they get the ball and do nothing - we have 5 Coaches - can’t anyone one of them make a change or is it’s Ed’s call - if it is then he is responsible - it is that simple.[/quote]

Agree on the lineup. Michigan plays with no center. Sims is their only big man starting(4 guards start), and they just won at The Barn. They’re not great, but they play their best 5, at least in Beilein’s eyes.

Here’s some post game quotes from Ed and Talor.

http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/021310aag.html


#3

[quote=“coalcracker, post:1, topic:841”]I usually attend one game a year - it was Mich. State this Sat.- during the warm ups before the game NO Coaches were present during the warm ups - the team shot lay ups and then did a slam dunking routine - I mean this was bouncing the ball high and then dunking it - off the back board and dunking it - it looked like they were in a slam dunk contest - NO Coaches on the floor!!! I am sure they could have put there time to better use.

My next observation - play with no centers - go with the forwards and have them crash the boards when Frazier or Battle goes to the hoop - Mich. St. did it all game - they might even get a pass for a lay up - no inside game from these big men ( Ott and Jones) - you might as well play with out them - they don’t score or rebound anyway - they can come in for a sub but it is no use having one in the game all the time from stat to finish - go with the forwards - Jackson and Brooks - they can not do any worse - we have to try something for next year or it is going to be another long season.

I am no expert but I am getting tired of seeing the same old game plan every game - shoot the 3 pointer - don’t work the ball inside and kick it out for an open shot - no ball movement - our big men come to the top of the circle - then they get the ball and do nothing - we have 5 Coaches - can’t anyone one of them make a change or is it’s Ed’s call - if it is then he is responsible - it is that simple.[/quote]

you are right, time to get back to cracking coal.


#4

Those post game quotes are the first time I’ve ever heard acknowledge that we have a lack of inside presence and lack of rebounding. Still wondering why he doesnt do something about it. Sit Jones and Ott at the end of the bench, start Brooks and tell him he can’t leave the post. He’s our best option


#5
[quote="coalcracker, post:1, topic:841"]I usually attend one game a year - it was Mich. State this Sat.- during the warm ups before the game NO Coaches were present during the warm ups - the team shot lay ups and then did a slam dunking routine - I mean this was bouncing the ball high and then dunking it - off the back board and dunking it - it looked like they were in a slam dunk contest - NO Coaches on the floor!!!! I am sure they could have put there time to better use.

My next observation - play with no centers - go with the forwards and have them crash the boards when Frazier or Battle goes to the hoop - Mich. St. did it all game - they might even get a pass for a lay up - no inside game from these big men ( Ott and Jones) - you might as well play with out them - they don’t score or rebound anyway - they can come in for a sub but it is no use having one in the game all the time from stat to finish - go with the forwards - Jackson and Brooks - they can not do any worse - we have to try something for next year or it is going to be another long season.

I am no expert but I am getting tired of seeing the same old game plan every game - shoot the 3 pointer - don’t work the ball inside and kick it out for an open shot - no ball movement - our big men come to the top of the circle - then they get the ball and do nothing - we have 5 Coaches - can’t anyone one of them make a change or is it’s Ed’s call - if it is then he is responsible - it is that simple.[/quote]

you are right, time to get back to cracking coal.

Niiiice. Because his post was obviously factually incorrect and over the top.

You add a lot yourself.


#6

can anyone explain the teams slam dunking routine in the pre game warm ups??? this is for all you EXPERTS out there - thanks


#7

Hope you’re joking… he makes good points.


#8

I would like to see Brooks play the 5 for an entire half doing exactly what you suggest.

Play like Michigan. They have one 6’8" guy, the rest < 6’5". We have better shooters. Harris is one of worst 3 point shooters in the league, under 30%. One reason why Michigan struggles. And they’re the worst rebounding team in the league, but since AJ and Ott aren’t rebounding so well, it shouldn’t hurt, and Brooks would go way up in rebounds.


#9

The slamdunking is something they’ve done for a few years now, it’ just one part of the warm-up. If you’re there for the whole hour and some of warm-ups you’ll see them doing all the usual things you would see. As far as coaches, there weren’t any MSU coaches out there either just trainers. Warm-ups aren’t practice, they’re warming up. Hence the name. Coaches don’t usually come out until it is almost time for the starting lineups.

Pretty much: 3 minutes of dunking in an hourof warm-ups isn’t why we’re losing.


#10

kid, I agree 100%. But then the issue comes back to the design of our offense. It has him setting high ball screens out at the arc every possession, which is why he always recieves the ball there. He still drifts there unecessarily alot, but its not always his fault. I guess its a chicken and the egg issue.


#11

[quote=“NGameday, post:9, topic:841”]The slamdunking is something they’ve done for a few years now, it’ just one part of the warm-up. If you’re there for the whole hour and some of warm-ups you’ll see them doing all the usual things you would see. As far as coaches, there weren’t any MSU coaches out there either just trainers. Warm-ups aren’t practice, they’re warming up. Hence the name. Coaches don’t usually come out until it is almost time for the starting lineups.

Pretty much: 3 minutes of dunking in an hourof warm-ups isn’t why we’re losing.[/quote]

Agree. There was a day when we didn’t have many players who could slam dunk.


#12

I don’t want a Princeton style or a SCum style offense. I remember very early in the season it seemed like we “made a strong effort” to post our bigs and have them attack the hoop. Of course it was probaly against small/weak opponents. Regardless, we got away from this offense very fast to where now we don’t post up at all.
I think, we just need “strong coaching.” I believe Ed is AFRAID of this needed “strong coaching.” Feeling he will “lose the team.” I have defended Ed in that the team has not stopped hustleing. He has not “lost” the team in this sense. BUT, when the coach sits on his hands and lets the kids play like they want in face of 0-12 this is poor and very WEAK coaching. I think the kids like ( at least the kids who’s opinions count) the total perimeter “shuck and duck” offense we have now! A good coach would “mandate” change. I don’t think Ed is willing.
I see other WEAK coaching in our league. Minne, in face of foolish shot selection still run and gun in face of a terrible won - loss record relative to their ability.


#13

[quote=“tundra, post:12, topic:841”]I don’t want a Princeton style or a SCum style offense. I remember very early in the season it seemed like we “made a strong effort” to post our bigs and have them attack the hoop. Of course it was probaly against small/weak opponents. Regardless, we got away from this offense very fast to where now we don’t post up at all.
I think, we just need “strong coaching.” I believe Ed is AFRAID of this needed “strong coaching.” Feeling he will “lose the team.” I have defended Ed in that the team has not stopped hustleing. He has not “lost” the team in this sense. BUT, when the coach sits on his hands and lets the kids play like they want in face of 0-12 this is poor and very WEAK coaching. I think the kids like ( at least the kids who’s opinions count) the total perimeter “shuck and duck” offense we have now! A good coach would “mandate” change. I don’t think Ed is willing.
I see other WEAK coaching in our league. Minne, in face of foolish shot selection still run and gun in face of a terrible won - loss record relative to their ability.[/quote]

Agree on Minny. Tubby’s not a good coach. Why don’t you like the NW or UM offenses? I think there are two choices for inside play, based on your big man/men dominance; either you’re strong and you post up your big man, or you’re not, and you run back doors and back screens to get easy baskets inside. I do agree on the early season posting up. DJ posted up vs. Sacred Heart and had 27 points, including tons of FTA’s.

The thing I think works about the Princeton offense is that you can play it with anybody, though it works better if you have mobile players(Rowley on NW not so hot at it.) The single post offense requires a more decent big man, but is probably simpler to play.


#14

[quote=“tundra, post:12, topic:841”]I remember very early in the season it seemed like we “made a strong effort” to post our bigs and have them attack the hoop. Of course it was probaly against small/weak opponents. Regardless, we got away from this offense very fast to where now we don’t post up at all.[/quote]This is one of my biggest complaints with our nonconference scheduling. Here we are over halfway through the conference schedule and we are still trying different lineups, looking for the right combination. If we had scheduled tougher nonconference opponents we would have known going into the conference schedule what worked and what did not…its easy for our bigs to look good against weak opponents. Not sure it would have made a difference, but if tougher nonconference scheduling had made us just a little better prepared for the conference games we may have pulled a couple of those early games out, and this snowball never would have gotten started.


#15

It’s not that I don’t like the Princeton style (loved it at WVU.) It’s that I think it’s too late in the season to be installing this type of offense. These offenses are a different “mind set” to the regular player. To play this offense the coach and team has to be very committed and work at it long and hard. Too late for that this season.


#16

As Lavin stated on Saturday. Our offense is basically dribble handoffs and a late hoist near the end of the shotclock


#17

Lavin is “right on.” I thought he did a good job on the broadcast.
Will he be on our “Coaching Candidate” list?


#18

I think you’re center has to be a decent shooter from the high post to run this offense well. If he isn’t, the opponent’s center just sags under the basket and all those back door cuts don’t work.


#19

Moot point-it would take Ed 8 months to figure out the Princeton Offense-that would put us at about the start of next year’s 1st day of practice.


#20

What really gets me is the total lack of any real picks or screens, which also relates to the lack of effective movement. It’s not hard to defend a guy in man-to-man if you never have to worry about running into a pick. The only picks we ever set are for Talor and they are almost always at the top of the key.

I really like seeing Frazier at the point and Talor running off of picks inside the arc. If he gets the ball inside the arc then he can either drive, shoot or pass for an assist. Outside his passes are to avoid a 5 second call.

Ott and Jones should stay down low and set picks for the forwards. That will help spread the floor and get the forwards shots other than 3’s.

We need Edwards to play a lot more than we need Ott, Jones and Brooks. Yes, he’s turning it over, but he rebounds, drives and seems to understand what to do on O. He at least seems to understand how to play.