PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

NCAAs vs NIT

First of all, wow. I can not beieve how this season unfolded. I’ve always said that my modest goal for this program would be to make sure everyone that comes through it gets a chance to play in the NCAA tournament. I didn’t think it was going to happen for Talor but I can’t express how thrilled I am for him.

I was wondering, with the way this board is just buzzing right now would anyone trade this and whatever is to come, for another NIT title? Obviously I am recalling the poll on this board from a few years ago that said that he NIT title was better than a one and done NCAA appearance. Is anybody here still willing to stand by that opinion?

[quote=“pmhewitt, post:1, topic:2161”]First of all, wow. I can not beieve how this season unfolded. I’ve always said that my modest goal for this program would be to make sure everyone that comes through it gets a chance to play in the NCAA tournament. I didn’t think it was going to happen for Talor but I can’t express how thrilled I am for him.

I was wondering, with the way this board is just buzzing right now would anyone trade this and whatever is to come, for another NIT title? Obviously I am recalling the poll on this board from a few years ago that said that he NIT title was better than a one and done NCAA appearance. Is anybody here still willing to stand by that opinion?[/quote]

Well, we’ve only experienced HALF of that scenario so it’s a little premature to ask which is better - and I certainly hope that come Thursday afternoon, we are still are unable to answer that question.

I wouldn’t trade a Dance Card for an NIT Title. The kids deserve it if it’s only a game. This is like making the major leagues if only for a cup of coffee. These kids can always say they were there.

[quote="pmhewitt, post:1, topic:2161"]First of all, wow. I can not beieve how this season unfolded. I've always said that my modest goal for this program would be to make sure everyone that comes through it gets a chance to play in the NCAA tournament. I didn't think it was going to happen for Talor but I can't express how thrilled I am for him.

I was wondering, with the way this board is just buzzing right now would anyone trade this and whatever is to come, for another NIT title? Obviously I am recalling the poll on this board from a few years ago that said that he NIT title was better than a one and done NCAA appearance. Is anybody here still willing to stand by that opinion?[/quote]

Well, we’ve only experienced HALF of that scenario so it’s a little premature to ask which is better - and I certainly hope that come Thursday afternoon, we are still are unable to answer that question.

Am I missing something Lar? Are you one of the new guys around here? Or is your memory slipping a bit!

I’ll stand by what I said two years ago, and which I said even after that Thursday night in April 2009: I would rather be one of the first teams out on Thursday afternoon than win the entire NIT.

Now, since we’re in this tournament this time around, we might as well just win the whole thing :wink:

[quote="pmhewitt, post:1, topic:2161"]First of all, wow. I can not beieve how this season unfolded. I've always said that my modest goal for this program would be to make sure everyone that comes through it gets a chance to play in the NCAA tournament. I didn't think it was going to happen for Talor but I can't express how thrilled I am for him.

I was wondering, with the way this board is just buzzing right now would anyone trade this and whatever is to come, for another NIT title? Obviously I am recalling the poll on this board from a few years ago that said that he NIT title was better than a one and done NCAA appearance. Is anybody here still willing to stand by that opinion?[/quote]

Well, we’ve only experienced HALF of that scenario so it’s a little premature to ask which is better - and I certainly hope that come Thursday afternoon, we are still are unable to answer that question.

Am I missing something Lar? Are you one of the new guys around here? Or is your memory slipping a bit!

Senile. My memory doesn’t go past a dozen years. ;D

My wish is that we play enough games in the tourney we’re in for Talor to get the single season scoring record to go along with his all-time scoring title.

If that doesn’t happen, that might be the ONLY reason I can think of for preferring an NIT championship.

I think there might be a little bit of selective memory happening here. I’m pretty sure almost all of us said that a one a done in the NCAA is better then an NIT title – for that season. But for a young team, winning the NIT could be better for seasons to come. The young guys get a taste of winning a title, etc. Last year was definitely a bust in my opinion, so that theory is probably out the window, at least for this group of kids. But I don’t know why people keep confusing this concept.

Not sure that I agree with your assumptions, but even if I did, and the kids went on a Sweet Sixteen run this year and attributed their success to the experience that they gained in the NIT, would you still say the theory is out the window?

[quote="mjg, post:8, topic:2161"]I think there might be a little bit of selective memory happening here. I'm pretty sure almost all of us said that a one a done in the NCAA is better then an NIT title -- for that season. But for a young team, winning the NIT [b]could[/b] be better for seasons to come. The young guys get a taste of winning a title, etc. Last year was definitely a bust in my opinion, so that theory is probably out the window, at least for this group of kids. But I don't know why people keep confusing this concept.[/quote]

Not sure that I agree with your assumptions, but even if I did, and the kids went on a Sweet Sixteen run this year and attributed their success to the experience that they gained in the NIT, would you still say the theory is out the window?

No, of course not. I was basing that on last year. In fact I had typed that it’s possible the NIT run helped us this year in the BTT. But I thought that might be enough of a stretch that I didn’t want to go there. Either way, the experience was certainly beneficial in ways statistics probably can’t measure.

I think the team two years ago was a bit of a unique situation where the NIT championship was slightly better off for them long term, given that they won the entire thing. You were talking about a program that had a roster full of kids with no post-season experience whatsoever, so to go into a tournament and win the thing was a huge accomplishment at the time. But to see this group that has that experience never take the next step would have been really disappointing. That’s the big difference to me.

edit: I guess Melle had played against Rutgers as a frosh in the NIT, but that’s about it right?

Kind of along the lines of what mjg has stated…

If we’re talking about a team stocked with underclassmen, I’ll take the NIT title over a one and done in the tourney.

If we’re talking about a team with 4 senior leaders who account for the vast majority of our production on both ends of the court (in other words, a team like the one we’ve got now), I’ll take the one and done.

Two years ago, I wanted the trip to the tourney even if it resulted in a first-round exit, but I admit that that was purely for emotional reasons (soft spot for the seniors combined with my own feelings of desperation, lol). But objectively speaking, I do feel that our NIT run was more beneficial to the younger players than a one and done in the tourney would have been.

Of course, there really is no way to quantify the gains made in that NIT run, just as there is no way to quantify the gains made in a one and done in the NCAA tourney. It really is a matter of perspective, and I can certainly see both sides of it…

It has to be NCAA or bust for me. That is what helps grow your program. No recruit wants to hear the pitch that we have played in the NIT the last 6 years and have 1 title in that time.

They want to know they are going to the NCAA’s.

In college sports you grow through success and in the mind of the people you need to convince the NIT is not success.

[quote=“Still in State College, post:13, topic:2161”]It has to be NCAA or bust for me. That is what helps grow your program. No recruit wants to hear the pitch that we have played in the NIT the last 6 years and have 1 title in that time.

They want to know they are going to the NCAA’s.

In college sports you grow through success and in the mind of the people you need to convince the NIT is not success.[/quote]

I agree that the goal every year is the NCAA tournament. All I’m suggesting is that in hindsight, playing 5 games in a “lose and go home” tournament can be very good for a young team. Especially if they win them all. I’m not saying that it is preferred.

I think it’s worked out pretty well. NIT 2 years ago, and NCAA now. Talor will get to experience BOTH, so that’s cool. The only downside is 'Mele never got to the 4-letter game. Of course, seeing his face in the Garden after the NIT title was priceless and I bet if you asked him now he wouldn’t trade that memory for anything in the world.

For us, we want to see results. For the guys, rememember that it’s the journey and not the destination, and what a wonderful journey that NIT run was last year, and what a journey this year has been so far. You can’t write a script with more twists and turns.

[quote=“pmhewitt, post:1, topic:2161”]First of all, wow. I can not beieve how this season unfolded. I’ve always said that my modest goal for this program would be to make sure everyone that comes through it gets a chance to play in the NCAA tournament. I didn’t think it was going to happen for Talor but I can’t express how thrilled I am for him.

I was wondering, with the way this board is just buzzing right now would anyone trade this and whatever is to come, for another NIT title? Obviously I am recalling the poll on this board from a few years ago that said that he NIT title was better than a one and done NCAA appearance. Is anybody here still willing to stand by that opinion?[/quote]

The 2009 team, yes, I voted for the NIT crown over the one and done. This team, well, they’ve already been there so I wanted to see something different for them to experience. For Ed, though a second NIT crown would have made me stay in his corner as the head coach.

NIT today, NU upsets # 1 seed BC to advance. Go Cats!

[quote=“CAPPY, post:17, topic:2161”]NIT today, NU upsets # 1 seed BC to advance. Go Cats![/quote]+1

A deep NIT run is more helpful to a young team that needs experience and needs to build up fan support.

For an experienced team, the NCAA is the far greater, even if it’s one and done. The only possible exception would be if the team just gets blown out (like Tennessee did) in their one game.

A trip to the NCAA’s no matter how short it is was much better for this team. They at least were able to reach their ultimate goal. And for that, it was much more important than making a run through the NIT (again).

At least for now there won’t be a “what if”, other than having a healthy Jeff Brooks for the last 19 minutes of the game.