Moving Forward


#1

Hard not to harp on an 0-7 start to the conference season. But, like all things in life, you must move on.

I was looking to see if this team was just going to throw in the towel after its losses to Iowa and Indy, but they surprised me in a good way in Madtown. More important than any win could get them, they earned back some much needed swagger in seeing that they can compete against the conference’s best in a tough building.

One game at a time from here on out.

I love how the team of Battle/Babb/Edwards/DJ/Ott played at Wisconsin. And the substitution pattern wasn’t all that bad, in order to keep those five fresh. If they can develop some consistent play off the bench from anyone with a pulse, they’ll be OK.

Tomorrow’s opponent Illinois looks to be in worse shape than PSU if you can believe that. Not record wise mind you, but in their recent play. Losing to Michigan State, Purdue (at home) and Northwestern, after a 4-0 start against a paper-thin schedule, has some in Champaign calling for Bruce Weber’s head. Since their loss at Georgia (which I saw with my own two eyes), I haven’t seen this team play a solid complete game except at home vs Iowa (and maybe Gonzaga, which they lost to in OT).

PSU outplayed them in Champaign and I feel like they will do the same at the BJC. Hopefully this time, my wife will be the one crying in her soup when the clock hits 0:00.


#2

Maybe we should go with a 2nd shift of Frazier, Camm, Highberger, Brooks and Jones. Maybe just in short periods kind of like Minnesota does.


#3

Not a bad thought. What’s the worst thing that can happen…0-8. :smiley:

Seriously, when you do something like that, all five guys on the court then feel they have to make things happen rather than just setting up the starters for more shots. Also, it throws a different look at the other team in terms of matchups and what to expect. They just don’t have to adjust to one or two new players, but possibly a whole new offensive/defensive look.


#4
Maybe we should go with a 2nd shift of Frazier, Camm, Highberger, Brooks and Jones. Maybe just in short periods kind of like Minnesota does.

Not a bad thought. What’s the worst thing that can happen…0-8. :smiley:

Seriously, when you do something like that, all five guys on the court then feel they have to make things happen rather than just setting up the starters for more shots. Also, it throws a different look at the other team in terms of matchups and what to expect. They just don’t have to adjust to one or two new players, but possibly a whole new offensive/defensive look.

Interesting thoughts, but why not just try to fix what’s broken? In sitting Jones and Brooks, Ed might giant step in right direction. But why are those two usually the first in? What about Cam, Frazier, Sasa? If it sounds like I’ve moved Jones and Brooks down, I have. A combined 25 minutes vs. Wisky with zero points can’t be rewarded with more time. Then there was AJ getting stuffed by Bohannon, the non box out on the Nankavil dunk(consecutive plays, if I remember correctly) and on and on. Time to move on, IMO. Let’s see if others can deliver. Do we have real info on Oliver? Why is he still suited up if he can’t play due to medical condition?

Illini, I agree PSU can beat the Illini at home. :wink: Best shot at a win going forward, IMO. Maybe something to build on.


#5
[quote="jjepsu92, post:2, topic:738"]Maybe we should go with a 2nd shift of Frazier, Camm, Highberger, Brooks and Jones. Maybe just in short periods kind of like Minnesota does.[/quote]

Not a bad thought. What’s the worst thing that can happen…0-8. :smiley:

Seriously, when you do something like that, all five guys on the court then feel they have to make things happen rather than just setting up the starters for more shots. Also, it throws a different look at the other team in terms of matchups and what to expect. They just don’t have to adjust to one or two new players, but possibly a whole new offensive/defensive look.

Interesting thoughts, but why not just try to fix what’s broken? In sitting Jones and Brooks, Ed might giant step in right direction. But why are those two usually the first in? What about Cam, Frazier, Sasa? If it sounds like I’ve moved Jones and Brooks down, I have. A combined 25 minutes vs. Wisky with zero points can’t be rewarded with more time. Then there was AJ getting stuffed by Bohannon, the non box out on the Nankavil dunk(consecutive plays, if I remember correctly) and on and on. Time to move on, IMO. Let’s see if others can deliver. Do we have real info on Oliver? Why is he still suited up if he can’t play due to medical condition?

Illini, I agree PSU can beat the Illini at home. :wink: Best shot at a win going forward, IMO. Maybe something to build on.


Heck we can beat anybody home or road. We just have to close the deal. We have only been out of 1 game and that was Wisky at the BJC. I was actually expecting Sunday’s game to be a whitewashing but the kids held strong.

#6
[quote="jjepsu92, post:2, topic:738"]Maybe we should go with a 2nd shift of Frazier, Camm, Highberger, Brooks and Jones. Maybe just in short periods kind of like Minnesota does.[/quote]

Not a bad thought. What’s the worst thing that can happen…0-8. :smiley:

Seriously, when you do something like that, all five guys on the court then feel they have to make things happen rather than just setting up the starters for more shots. Also, it throws a different look at the other team in terms of matchups and what to expect. They just don’t have to adjust to one or two new players, but possibly a whole new offensive/defensive look.

Interesting thoughts, but why not just try to fix what’s broken? In sitting Jones and Brooks, Ed might giant step in right direction. But why are those two usually the first in? What about Cam, Frazier, Sasa? If it sounds like I’ve moved Jones and Brooks down, I have. A combined 25 minutes vs. Wisky with zero points can’t be rewarded with more time. Then there was AJ getting stuffed by Bohannon, the non box out on the Nankavil dunk(consecutive plays, if I remember correctly) and on and on. Time to move on, IMO. Let’s see if others can deliver. Do we have real info on Oliver? Why is he still suited up if he can’t play due to medical condition?

Illini, I agree PSU can beat the Illini at home. :wink: Best shot at a win going forward, IMO. Maybe something to build on.

I think the deal with Oliver is that it’s day to day and he just hasn’t been able to get in the practice time to really be game ready. He suits up since he could play but his lack of practice time probably means he isn’t prepared for meaningful minutes (and pretty much all of our minutes have been meaningful).


#7
[quote="jjepsu92, post:2, topic:738"]Maybe we should go with a 2nd shift of Frazier, Camm, Highberger, Brooks and Jones. Maybe just in short periods kind of like Minnesota does.[/quote]

Not a bad thought. What’s the worst thing that can happen…0-8. :smiley:

Seriously, when you do something like that, all five guys on the court then feel they have to make things happen rather than just setting up the starters for more shots. Also, it throws a different look at the other team in terms of matchups and what to expect. They just don’t have to adjust to one or two new players, but possibly a whole new offensive/defensive look.

Interesting thoughts, but why not just try to fix what’s broken? In sitting Jones and Brooks, Ed might giant step in right direction. But why are those two usually the first in? What about Cam, Frazier, Sasa? If it sounds like I’ve moved Jones and Brooks down, I have. A combined 25 minutes vs. Wisky with zero points can’t be rewarded with more time. Then there was AJ getting stuffed by Bohannon, the non box out on the Nankavil dunk(consecutive plays, if I remember correctly) and on and on. Time to move on, IMO. Let’s see if others can deliver. Do we have real info on Oliver? Why is he still suited up if he can’t play due to medical condition?

Illini, I agree PSU can beat the Illini at home. :wink: Best shot at a win going forward, IMO. Maybe something to build on.

I think the deal with Oliver is that it’s day to day and he just hasn’t been able to get in the practice time to really be game ready. He suits up since he could play but his lack of practice time probably means he isn’t prepared for meaningful minutes (and pretty much all of our minutes have been meaningful).

Any info on Sasa? Like Kid I still can’t figure out why he hasn’t seen any PT with little to no inside production by our bigs. I have one idea but I’m hoping its the wrong one.

#8

Penn State is ranked 346 out of 347 D1 teams in Pomeroy’s “luck” statistic. I don’t know how he calculates it, but I believe that means that given our offensive and defensive ranks we should have more wins. (In other words, we’re the best 0-7 team anywhere.)

It’s only a matter of time before the wins start coming. I’m not saying we’re a great team, but certainly much better than 0-7 would indicate.


#9

I wound consider the fact we got to play Wiscy without their second best player pretty lucky.


#10

[quote=“WestCoastBlues, post:8, topic:738”]Penn State is ranked 346 out of 347 D1 teams in Pomeroy’s “luck” statistic. I don’t know how he calculates it, but I believe that means that given our offensive and defensive ranks we should have more wins. (In other words, we’re the best 0-7 team anywhere.)

It’s only a matter of time before the wins start coming. I’m not saying we’re a great team, but certainly much better than 0-7 would indicate.[/quote]

That’s correct. If you want to know the technicalities, he uses the correlated gaussian method invented by Dean Oliver, to predict what our winning percentage should be, then subtracts that from our actual winning percentage and calls it the luck factor.


#11

What’s the one idea? You’re killing me. :wink:


#12
[quote="battlesway2, post:7, topic:738"]Any info on Sasa? Like Kid I still can't figure out why he hasn't seen any PT with little to no inside production by our bigs. I have one idea but I'm hoping its the wrong one.[/quote]

What’s the one idea? You’re killing me. :wink:

Rhymes with zelos :wink:

#13
[quote="battlesway2, post:7, topic:738"]Any info on Sasa? Like Kid I still can't figure out why he hasn't seen any PT with little to no inside production by our bigs. I have one idea but I'm hoping its the wrong one.[/quote]

What’s the one idea? You’re killing me. :wink:

Rhymes with zelos :wink:

It’s been mentioned before. I think this must be at least Ed’s feeling, but how about giving him the time zelos got. :wink: Wasn’t zelos a starter sometimes?


#14

With or without Jon Leuer, Wisconsin just doesn’t lose at home and PSU had them and should have pulled it off. In fact Wisconsin beat Purdue in Madison while Leuer was going 2 for 15 from the floor. And they downed NW in Evanston by 10 without Leuer.

Nice player, absolutely. Key player, no doubt. But Bo Ryan can cart any five players out onto that Kohl Center floor and beat your five players. Doesn’t matter who they are as long as they are wearing Bucky Red and White.


#15
[quote="NICU, post:9, topic:738"]I wound consider the fact we got to play Wiscy without their second best player pretty lucky.[/quote]

With or without Jon Leuer, Wisconsin just doesn’t lose at home and PSU had them and should have pulled it off. In fact Wisconsin beat Purdue in Madison while Leuer was going 2 for 15 from the floor. And they downed NW in Evanston by 10 without Leuer.

Nice player, absolutely. Key player, no doubt. But Bo Ryan can cart any five players out onto that Kohl Center floor and beat your five players. Doesn’t matter who they are as long as they are wearing Bucky Red and White.

Their previous home game with Michigan (I believe the first home game without Leuer) followed almost the same script as the PSU game, albeit on a smaller scale. UM was up 11 early, lead by 3 at the half, built a 9-point lead in the second half, then Wiscy took the lead with 3 minutes left and won. Wiscy is certainly still a good team without Leuer, but he was having a FANTASTIC season.

My response was more to the “luck factor” that keeps getting posted. Interesting measure, but it should not be used as an excuse for our 0-7 start.

Having said all that, I did think we played with a lot more focus (for the most part, though there were some tough turnovers), effort and determination in the Wiscy game. Moving forward, I hope we can bring that same approach.


#16

He was having a nice season, but his B10 numbers weren’t fantastic. 11ppg and 5ppg (his best game 21pt/7reb, was a Wisc loss).

I’m with you on the luck stuff. Sometimes you have to grind down and make your own luck. I think if we see the team that showed up against Wisconsin, we’ll get a few W’s this year.


#17

[quote=“NittanyIllini, post:1, topic:738”]Hard not to harp on an 0-7 start to the conference season. But, like all things in life, you must move on.

I was looking to see if this team was just going to throw in the towel after its losses to Iowa and Indy, but they surprised me in a good way in Madtown. More important than any win could get them, they earned back some much needed swagger in seeing that they can compete against the conference’s best in a tough building.

One game at a time from here on out.

I love how the team of Battle/Babb/Edwards/DJ/Ott played at Wisconsin. And the substitution pattern wasn’t all that bad, in order to keep those five fresh. If they can develop some consistent play off the bench from anyone with a pulse, they’ll be OK.

Tomorrow’s opponent Illinois looks to be in worse shape than PSU if you can believe that. Not record wise mind you, but in their recent play. Losing to Michigan State, Purdue (at home) and Northwestern, after a 4-0 start against a paper-thin schedule, has some in Champaign calling for Bruce Weber’s head. Since their loss at Georgia (which I saw with my own two eyes), I haven’t seen this team play a solid complete game except at home vs Iowa (and maybe Gonzaga, which they lost to in OT).

PSU outplayed them in Champaign and I feel like they will do the same at the BJC. Hopefully this time, my wife will be the one crying in her soup when the clock hits 0:00.[/quote]

The Illinois/Weber coaching decision is interesting. While I’m not sold on Weber, his job has gotten a lot tougher since he took over. The hiring of Tubby Smith and Crean significantly improved their programs. Also, while PSU and Iowa are regressing and only getting worse, an argument can be made that Illinois is only the 7th/8th best job in the big ten (behind Iowa, PSU and NW). Unfortunately for Weber, I don’t think Illini fans are acecepting of that view (and have unrealistic expectations).

I’m not optimistic for a win tomorrow. Illinois is going to be extremely focused tomorrow - their post-season berth depends on winning tomorrow. Losing at PSU would kill them come MArch.


#18
[quote="NICU, post:15, topic:738"]Their previous home game with Michigan (I believe the first home game without Leuer) followed almost the same script as the PSU game, albeit on a smaller scale. UM was up 11 early, lead by 3 at the half, built a 9-point lead in the second half, then Wiscy took the lead with 3 minutes left and won. Wiscy is certainly still a good team without Leuer, but he was having a FANTASTIC season.[/quote]

He was having a nice season, but his B10 numbers weren’t fantastic. 11ppg and 5ppg (his best game 21pt/7reb, was a Wisc loss).

I’m with you on the luck stuff. Sometimes you have to grind down and make your own luck. I think if we see the team that showed up against Wisconsin, we’ll get a few W’s this year.

Good point on Leuer. He had a weird Big 10 season. 18 min and 14 min in the first two games, strong game against MSU, then terrible shooting game against Purdue…then it was over.


#19
Hard not to harp on an 0-7 start to the conference season. But, like all things in life, you must move on.

I was looking to see if this team was just going to throw in the towel after its losses to Iowa and Indy, but they surprised me in a good way in Madtown. More important than any win could get them, they earned back some much needed swagger in seeing that they can compete against the conference’s best in a tough building.

One game at a time from here on out.

I love how the team of Battle/Babb/Edwards/DJ/Ott played at Wisconsin. And the substitution pattern wasn’t all that bad, in order to keep those five fresh. If they can develop some consistent play off the bench from anyone with a pulse, they’ll be OK.

Tomorrow’s opponent Illinois looks to be in worse shape than PSU if you can believe that. Not record wise mind you, but in their recent play. Losing to Michigan State, Purdue (at home) and Northwestern, after a 4-0 start against a paper-thin schedule, has some in Champaign calling for Bruce Weber’s head. Since their loss at Georgia (which I saw with my own two eyes), I haven’t seen this team play a solid complete game except at home vs Iowa (and maybe Gonzaga, which they lost to in OT).

PSU outplayed them in Champaign and I feel like they will do the same at the BJC. Hopefully this time, my wife will be the one crying in her soup when the clock hits 0:00.

The Illinois/Weber coaching decision is interesting. While I’m not sold on Weber, his job has gotten a lot tougher since he took over. The hiring of Tubby Smith and Crean significantly improved their programs. Also, while PSU and Iowa are regressing and only getting worse, an argument can be made that Illinois is only the 7th/8th best job in the big ten (behind Iowa, PSU and NW). Unfortunately for Weber, I don’t think Illini fans are acecepting of that view (and have unrealistic expectations).

I’m not optimistic for a win tomorrow. Illinois is going to be extremely focused tomorrow - their post-season berth depends on winning tomorrow. Losing at PSU would kill them come MArch.

Point taken on Leuer and Wisconsin, NICU.

As for Weber and the Illini, why shouldn’t the fans have high expectations. They are but five years (wow) removed from a trip to the championship game with Weber at the helm (albeit with Self’s players). After what the program has been through in the past couple of years, they expected pretty big things (not MSU/Purdue big things mind you) this year, which meant a trip to the NCAA’s. They’ve come to expect that every year. The NIT is not acceptable in Champaign and probably never will be.

As for the 7th or 8th best comment. After MSU and Indiana - the two national programs the Big Ten currently sports (I don’t count Michigan because they cheated their way to significance with the Fab Five which they are still living off the laurels of - another topic for another thread/board). After those two, Illinois is as big or on par with several other current programs (Purdue/Ohio State/Wisconsin/Minnesota and Michigan).


#20
[quote="NittanyIllini, post:1, topic:738"]Hard not to harp on an 0-7 start to the conference season. But, like all things in life, you must move on.

I was looking to see if this team was just going to throw in the towel after its losses to Iowa and Indy, but they surprised me in a good way in Madtown. More important than any win could get them, they earned back some much needed swagger in seeing that they can compete against the conference’s best in a tough building.

One game at a time from here on out.

I love how the team of Battle/Babb/Edwards/DJ/Ott played at Wisconsin. And the substitution pattern wasn’t all that bad, in order to keep those five fresh. If they can develop some consistent play off the bench from anyone with a pulse, they’ll be OK.

Tomorrow’s opponent Illinois looks to be in worse shape than PSU if you can believe that. Not record wise mind you, but in their recent play. Losing to Michigan State, Purdue (at home) and Northwestern, after a 4-0 start against a paper-thin schedule, has some in Champaign calling for Bruce Weber’s head. Since their loss at Georgia (which I saw with my own two eyes), I haven’t seen this team play a solid complete game except at home vs Iowa (and maybe Gonzaga, which they lost to in OT).

PSU outplayed them in Champaign and I feel like they will do the same at the BJC. Hopefully this time, my wife will be the one crying in her soup when the clock hits 0:00.[/quote]

The Illinois/Weber coaching decision is interesting. While I’m not sold on Weber, his job has gotten a lot tougher since he took over. The hiring of Tubby Smith and Crean significantly improved their programs. Also, while PSU and Iowa are regressing and only getting worse, an argument can be made that Illinois is only the 7th/8th best job in the big ten (behind Iowa, PSU and NW). Unfortunately for Weber, I don’t think Illini fans are acecepting of that view (and have unrealistic expectations).

I’m not optimistic for a win tomorrow. Illinois is going to be extremely focused tomorrow - their post-season berth depends on winning tomorrow. Losing at PSU would kill them come MArch.

Point taken on Leuer and Wisconsin, NICU.

As for Weber and the Illini, why shouldn’t the fans have high expectations. They are but five years (wow) removed from a trip to the championship game with Weber at the helm (albeit with Self’s players). After what the program has been through in the past couple of years, they expected pretty big things (not MSU/Purdue big things mind you) this year, which meant a trip to the NCAA’s. They’ve come to expect that every year. The NIT is not acceptable in Champaign and probably never will be.

As for the 7th or 8th best comment. After MSU and Indiana - the two national programs the Big Ten currently sports (I don’t count Michigan because they cheated their way to significance with the Fab Five which they are still living off the laurels of - another topic for another thread/board). After those two, Illinois is as big or on par with several other current programs (Purdue/Ohio State/Wisconsin/Minnesota and Michigan).

Agreed they are on par with 3-8. However, this means that finishing 4th, 5th in conference with a 6-9 seed is a pretty solid season. I think, perhaps rightfully, Illini still have greater hopes, but not sure that’s going to be the norm.