Losing brings team closer


#1

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2010/02/08/losing_brings_team_closer.aspx


#2

It’s great that they’re sticking together, but one of the things bothering me is that Ed never or rarely talks about or makes changes to things which seem really broken.

On Sat, yes, Talor missed a lot of FT’s, and Westbrook hit a great shot, but why is every game a struggle? It’s not FT’s as the team is above average(FYI, Texas shoots 52%) in the conference.

On O, it seems to me Battle is doubled, so playing Frazier with him should relieve some of this. While anecdotal, in 2 of last 3 games when they played together PSU was plus in points, 3 to 6 or so. But the 800lb. gorilla is the lack of in the paint scoring. While DJ has done fine, he’s not scoring as a 4, and there’s almost nothing from the 5. It’s obvious Ed knows this, and while he may not want to speak publicly about it, what is he doing to fix it? Michigan, while not great, plays Sims and 4 guards. How about that, playing one big man, DJ, and 4 guards? Or a different offensive scheme? Something, anything, which gets points out of the 5 spot, and a forward spot in the paint. DJ and Brooks are both playing like 3’s. If noboby can score in the paint, why play a big man at all? Defense? Rebounding? Puhlease.

All that said, I thought PSU offense was crisp moving the ball on Sat, better than I remember all season. Still, very tough to win when two positions aren’t producing, and you try to win by perimeter play. That’s for teams like Sacred Heart, NJIT, etc., teams with small frontcourts who can’t go inside. Our frontcourt isn’t small. If they’re going to play small, play the guys that are better at that style of play, .i.e., the guards.


#3

Obviously nothing.We have Taran and only Taran coming in next year (not a knock on him). Inside O and D will once again be a big problem again next year and will hold this team back.


#4
[quote="kidcoyote, post:2, topic:811"]But the 800lb. gorilla is the lack of in the paint scoring. While DJ has done fine, he's not scoring as a 4, and there's almost nothing from the 5. It's obvious Ed knows this, and while he may not want to speak publicly about it, what is he doing to fix it?[/quote] Obviously nothing.We have Taran and only Taran coming in next year (not a knock on him). Inside O and D will once again be a big problem again next year and will hold this team back.
actually we will have Taran, Marshall, Olivier (hopefully) and Sasa a full year bigger and wiser

#5
[quote="kidcoyote, post:2, topic:811"]But the 800lb. gorilla is the lack of in the paint scoring. While DJ has done fine, he's not scoring as a 4, and there's almost nothing from the 5. It's obvious Ed knows this, and while he may not want to speak publicly about it, what is he doing to fix it?[/quote] Obviously nothing.We have Taran and only Taran coming in next year (not a knock on him). Inside O and D will once again be a big problem again next year and will hold this team back.
actually we will have Taran, Marshall, Olivier (hopefully) and Sasa a full year bigger and wiser
Guard,Guard,F (how good is he?), ? ..I apologize that inside game will be a force next year . I'm not saying we don't have other pieces but we have no inside game now and won't next year.

#6
[quote="kidcoyote, post:2, topic:811"]But the 800lb. gorilla is the lack of in the paint scoring. While DJ has done fine, he's not scoring as a 4, and there's almost nothing from the 5. It's obvious Ed knows this, and while he may not want to speak publicly about it, what is he doing to fix it?[/quote] Obviously nothing.We have Taran and only Taran coming in next year (not a knock on him). Inside O and D will once again be a big problem again next year and will hold this team back.
actually we will have Taran, Marshall, Olivier (hopefully) and Sasa a full year bigger and wiser
I'll believe Oliver will be on the floor when I see it. At this point it's tough to try and count on him.

#7
[quote="kidcoyote, post:2, topic:811"]But the 800lb. gorilla is the lack of in the paint scoring. While DJ has done fine, he's not scoring as a 4, and there's almost nothing from the 5. It's obvious Ed knows this, and while he may not want to speak publicly about it, what is he doing to fix it?[/quote] Obviously nothing.We have Taran and only Taran coming in next year (not a knock on him). Inside O and D will once again be a big problem again next year and will hold this team back.
actually we will have Taran, Marshall, Olivier (hopefully) and Sasa a full year bigger and wiser
I'll believe Oliver will be on the floor when I see it. At this point it's tough to try and count on him.
Looks like he's also counting on 2 guards who have never played a min of college basketball and yet to be determined PF. I think we might actually win a few games next year in conf play but we won't even get close to sniffing any kind of tournament.

#8
[quote="kidcoyote, post:2, topic:811"]But the 800lb. gorilla is the lack of in the paint scoring. While DJ has done fine, he's not scoring as a 4, and there's almost nothing from the 5. It's obvious Ed knows this, and while he may not want to speak publicly about it, what is he doing to fix it?[/quote] Obviously nothing.We have Taran and only Taran coming in next year (not a knock on him). Inside O and D will once again be a big problem again next year and will hold this team back.
actually we will have Taran, Marshall, Olivier (hopefully) and Sasa a full year bigger and wiser
I'll believe Oliver will be on the floor when I see it. At this point it's tough to try and count on him.
Looks like he's also counting on 2 guards who have never played a min of college basketball and yet to be determined PF. I think we might actually win a few games next year in conf play but we won't even get close to sniffing any kind of tournament.

I agree with that analysis. And if ED gets another year, he’ll be canned after next season.


#9
[quote="kidcoyote, post:2, topic:811"]But the 800lb. gorilla is the lack of in the paint scoring. While DJ has done fine, he's not scoring as a 4, and there's almost nothing from the 5. It's obvious Ed knows this, and while he may not want to speak publicly about it, what is he doing to fix it?[/quote] [b]Obviously nothing.[/b]We have Taran and only Taran coming in next year (not a knock on him). Inside O and D will once again be a big problem again next year and will hold this team back.

That’s the problem I have. In Pete Newell’s book he talks about Arnie Risen, who attended Ohio State in the late 1940’s. He was 6’9", 200 lbs., and had never played basketball. The coach made him into a player, grabbing him off campus, and in conditioning exercises, he couldn’t jump at all, like maybe an inch. His time on the track running the mile, was still(as of 1965), the slowest ever recorded at the school, like 15 minutes. He became a player, led OSU to two consecutive Final 4’s, and won two NBA championships playing a 10 year career with the Rochester Royals and Celtics. In 1998, he was elected to the Basketball Hall of Fame. Newell talks about the energy and time that was needed to be put in to develop him as a player. Ray Meyer did the same with George Mikan at DePaul. The Mikan drill is still used. That was Meyer’s drill for Mikan.

IMO, Andrew Jones in particular, is relatively athletic. He needs training. He’s not getting it. One of the problems I see in coaching at the youth levels and in HS, is there is very little individual training. My son was the captain of both his baseball and basketball team and was Gatorade baseball player of the year in Vermont. It’s all about the offense, or strategy or tactics, nothing on skill development. Nothing. They expect you to do that on your own. I’ve seen Rick Carlisle on a tape of Newell’s Big Men Camps teaching the rocker step to college players. 90% of college players don’t even know what it is. These skills can be learned, but they have to be taught, drop step, crossover step, reverse pivot, etc. Without question, AJ should go to big men’s camp, assuming they’re still operating with Newell’s recent death. Taran will help next year, but post play is a huge issue, and it can help for next year.


#10
[quote="kidcoyote, post:2, topic:811"]But the 800lb. gorilla is the lack of in the paint scoring. While DJ has done fine, he's not scoring as a 4, and there's almost nothing from the 5. It's obvious Ed knows this, and while he may not want to speak publicly about it, what is he doing to fix it?[/quote] [b]Obviously nothing.[/b]We have Taran and only Taran coming in next year (not a knock on him). Inside O and D will once again be a big problem again next year and will hold this team back.

That’s the problem I have. In Pete Newell’s book he talks about Arnie Risen, who attended Ohio State in the late 1940’s. He was 6’9", 200 lbs., and had never played basketball. The coach made him into a player, grabbing him off campus, and in conditioning exercises, he couldn’t jump at all, like maybe an inch. His time on the track running the mile, was still(as of 1965), the slowest ever recorded at the school, like 15 minutes. He became a player, led OSU to two consecutive Final 4’s, and won two NBA championships playing a 10 year career with the Rochester Royals and Celtics. In 1998, he was elected to the Basketball Hall of Fame. Newell talks about the energy and time that was needed to be put in to develop him as a player. Ray Meyer did the same with George Mikan at DePaul. The Mikan drill is still used. That was Meyer’s drill for Mikan.

IMO, Andrew Jones in particular, is relatively athletic. He needs training. He’s not getting it. One of the problems I see in coaching at the youth levels and in HS, is there is very little individual training. My son was the captain of both his baseball and basketball team and was Gatorade baseball player of the year in Vermont. It’s all about the offense, or strategy or tactics, nothing on skill development. Nothing. They expect you to do that on your own. I’ve seen Rick Carlisle on a tape of Newell’s Big Men Camps teaching the rocker step to college players. 90% of college players don’t even know what it is. These skills can be learned, but they have to be taught, drop step, crossover step, reverse pivot, etc. Without question, AJ should go to big men’s camp, assuming they’re still operating with Newell’s recent death. Taran will help next year, but post play is a huge issue, and it can help for next year.

Well he will be a senior and his play is headed backwards this season so I’m not counting on big things next year from him. Ott hustles his tail off but that’s about all your going to get on any given night. We have no post game whatsoever and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to take the bw shades off.

#11
[quote="kidcoyote, post:2, topic:811"]But the 800lb. gorilla is the lack of in the paint scoring. While DJ has done fine, he's not scoring as a 4, and there's almost nothing from the 5. It's obvious Ed knows this, and while he may not want to speak publicly about it, what is he doing to fix it?[/quote] [b]Obviously nothing.[/b]We have Taran and only Taran coming in next year (not a knock on him). Inside O and D will once again be a big problem again next year and will hold this team back.

That’s the problem I have. In Pete Newell’s book he talks about Arnie Risen, who attended Ohio State in the late 1940’s. He was 6’9", 200 lbs., and had never played basketball. The coach made him into a player, grabbing him off campus, and in conditioning exercises, he couldn’t jump at all, like maybe an inch. His time on the track running the mile, was still(as of 1965), the slowest ever recorded at the school, like 15 minutes. He became a player, led OSU to two consecutive Final 4’s, and won two NBA championships playing a 10 year career with the Rochester Royals and Celtics. In 1998, he was elected to the Basketball Hall of Fame. Newell talks about the energy and time that was needed to be put in to develop him as a player. Ray Meyer did the same with George Mikan at DePaul. The Mikan drill is still used. That was Meyer’s drill for Mikan.

IMO, Andrew Jones in particular, is relatively athletic. He needs training. He’s not getting it. One of the problems I see in coaching at the youth levels and in HS, is there is very little individual training. My son was the captain of both his baseball and basketball team and was Gatorade baseball player of the year in Vermont. It’s all about the offense, or strategy or tactics, nothing on skill development. Nothing. They expect you to do that on your own. I’ve seen Rick Carlisle on a tape of Newell’s Big Men Camps teaching the rocker step to college players. 90% of college players don’t even know what it is. These skills can be learned, but they have to be taught, drop step, crossover step, reverse pivot, etc. Without question, AJ should go to big men’s camp, assuming they’re still operating with Newell’s recent death. Taran will help next year, but post play is a huge issue, and it can help for next year.

Well he will be a senior and his play is headed backwards this season so I’m not counting on big things next year from him. Ott hustles his tail off but that’s about all your going to get on any given night. We have no post game whatsoever and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to take the bw shades off.

I know, but good coaches address the problem areas. Like a chain, the team’s only as strong as its weakest link. Yes, only one year left, but can’t have another zero from the post. What’s the harm in big man camp? He’s relatively coordinated, strong, big. He does a lot wrong which can be fixed, e.g., he always pivots on his away foot and takes a short jumper, rather than on his inside foot and toward the basket for a dunk or layup. Elmore always comments on his shoulder not being turned, so he gets blocked by shorter guys like Bohannon. You can learn this stuff. He might be able to up his game to get to play in Europe. No harm in trying.


#12
[quote="kidcoyote, post:2, topic:811"]But the 800lb. gorilla is the lack of in the paint scoring. While DJ has done fine, he's not scoring as a 4, and there's almost nothing from the 5. It's obvious Ed knows this, and while he may not want to speak publicly about it, what is he doing to fix it?[/quote] [b]Obviously nothing.[/b]We have Taran and only Taran coming in next year (not a knock on him). Inside O and D will once again be a big problem again next year and will hold this team back.

That’s the problem I have. In Pete Newell’s book he talks about Arnie Risen, who attended Ohio State in the late 1940’s. He was 6’9", 200 lbs., and had never played basketball. The coach made him into a player, grabbing him off campus, and in conditioning exercises, he couldn’t jump at all, like maybe an inch. His time on the track running the mile, was still(as of 1965), the slowest ever recorded at the school, like 15 minutes. He became a player, led OSU to two consecutive Final 4’s, and won two NBA championships playing a 10 year career with the Rochester Royals and Celtics. In 1998, he was elected to the Basketball Hall of Fame. Newell talks about the energy and time that was needed to be put in to develop him as a player. Ray Meyer did the same with George Mikan at DePaul. The Mikan drill is still used. That was Meyer’s drill for Mikan.

IMO, Andrew Jones in particular, is relatively athletic. He needs training. He’s not getting it. One of the problems I see in coaching at the youth levels and in HS, is there is very little individual training. My son was the captain of both his baseball and basketball team and was Gatorade baseball player of the year in Vermont. It’s all about the offense, or strategy or tactics, nothing on skill development. Nothing. They expect you to do that on your own. I’ve seen Rick Carlisle on a tape of Newell’s Big Men Camps teaching the rocker step to college players. 90% of college players don’t even know what it is. These skills can be learned, but they have to be taught, drop step, crossover step, reverse pivot, etc. Without question, AJ should go to big men’s camp, assuming they’re still operating with Newell’s recent death. Taran will help next year, but post play is a huge issue, and it can help for next year.

Well he will be a senior and his play is headed backwards this season so I’m not counting on big things next year from him. Ott hustles his tail off but that’s about all your going to get on any given night. We have no post game whatsoever and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to take the bw shades off.

I know, but good coaches address the problem areas. Like a chain, the team’s only as strong as its weakest link. Yes, only one year left, but can’t have another zero from the post. What’s the harm in big man camp? He’s relatively coordinated, strong, big. He does a lot wrong which can be fixed, e.g., he always pivots on his away foot and takes a short jumper, rather than on his inside foot and toward the basket for a dunk or layup. Elmore always comments on his shoulder not being turned, so he gets blocked by shorter guys like Bohannon. You can learn this stuff. He might be able to up his game to get to play in Europe. No harm in trying.

Did you ever think that maybe he just isn’t that good of a basketball player?

#13

Yes - The camp is still operating. However, I don’t think it’s right to simply assume that AJ or his family has a couple grand sitting around so that he can attend the camp.


#14
[quote="kidcoyote, post:9, topic:811"]They expect you to do that on your own. I've seen Rick Carlisle on a tape of Newell's Big Men Camps teaching the rocker step to college players. 90% of college players don't even know what it is. These skills can be learned, but they have to be taught, drop step, crossover step, reverse pivot, etc. Without question, AJ should go to big men's camp, assuming they're still operating with Newell's recent death. Taran will help next year, but post play is a huge issue, and it can help for next year.[/quote]

Yes - The camp is still operating. However, I don’t think it’s right to simply assume that AJ or his family has a couple grand sitting around so that he can attend the camp.

Ever hear of boosters? He can also earn money working in Ed’s camps, or in a boosters business. And a couple of grand? Hah. I’m onto my 3rd kid in college, and we’re in so far for between $165-$180k, with 3 years left on last kid. Spare me. He can work for the money…if he wants it bad enough.


#15
[quote="kidcoyote, post:9, topic:811"]They expect you to do that on your own. I've seen Rick Carlisle on a tape of Newell's Big Men Camps teaching the rocker step to college players. 90% of college players don't even know what it is. These skills can be learned, but they have to be taught, drop step, crossover step, reverse pivot, etc. Without question, AJ should go to big men's camp, assuming they're still operating with Newell's recent death. Taran will help next year, but post play is a huge issue, and it can help for next year.[/quote]

Yes - The camp is still operating. However, I don’t think it’s right to simply assume that AJ or his family has a couple grand sitting around so that he can attend the camp.

Ever hear of boosters? He can also earn money working in Ed’s camps, or in a boosters business. And a couple of grand? Hah. I’m onto my 3rd kid in college, and we’re in so far for between $165-$180k, with 3 years left on last kid. Spare me. He can work for the money…if he wants it bad enough.

Maybe you should call Ed and staff and try to sell them on this. Tell me how it turns out :wink:

Speaking of Big Men I was expecting a little more out of our “bigs” with Lewis on the staff…guess not


#16

Wow, ever hear of NCAA violations? ???

And I guess if KidCoyote has spent 165-180k on his kid’s college education and he wants Andrew Jones to become a better basketball player, then 2 grand is a small price to pay for him to get on your good side.


#17
[quote="kidcoyote, post:9, topic:811"]They expect you to do that on your own. I've seen Rick Carlisle on a tape of Newell's Big Men Camps teaching the rocker step to college players. 90% of college players don't even know what it is. These skills can be learned, but they have to be taught, drop step, crossover step, reverse pivot, etc. Without question, AJ should go to big men's camp, assuming they're still operating with Newell's recent death. Taran will help next year, but post play is a huge issue, and it can help for next year.[/quote]

Yes - The camp is still operating. However, I don’t think it’s right to simply assume that AJ or his family has a couple grand sitting around so that he can attend the camp.

Ever hear of boosters? He can also earn money working in Ed’s camps, or in a boosters business. And a couple of grand? Hah. I’m onto my 3rd kid in college, and we’re in so far for between $165-$180k, with 3 years left on last kid. Spare me. He can work for the money…if he wants it bad enough.

Maybe you should call Ed and staff and try to sell them on this. Tell me how it turns out :wink:

Speaking of Big Men I was expecting a little more out of our “bigs” with Lewis on the staff…guess not

There’s a reason why Donovan didn’t want Lewis on staff.


#18
[quote="kidcoyote, post:14, topic:811"]Ever hear of boosters? He can also earn money working in Ed's camps, or in a boosters business. And a couple of grand? Hah. I'm onto my 3rd kid in college, and we're in so far for between $165-$180k, with 3 years left on last kid. Spare me. He can work for the money...if he wants it bad enough.[/quote]

Wow, ever hear of NCAA violations? ???

And I guess if KidCoyote has spent 165-180k on his kid’s college education and he wants Andrew Jones to become a better basketball player, then 2 grand is a small price to pay for him to get on your good side.

No violations if you work for money. Where there’s a will there’s a way. I wouldn’t put minor obstacles in the way. Does he want to go pro like Stanley? He’d better do something.

[quote="battlesway2, post:15, topic:811"]Speaking of Big Men I was expecting a little more out of our "bigs" with Lewis on the staff...guess not[/quote]

There’s a reason why Donovan didn’t want Lewis on staff.

It is surprising that our bigs have seemed to regress. Someone mentioned this before. I went to U of Florida board, and a poster here, asked that question about Lewis when PSU announced he was coming, and was told he was great, we were lucky. Who knows?