PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Looks like I need a different analogy

When waxing about the difficulty recruiting here for basketball, I often use this analogy: would anyone expect Indiana to beat out Notre Dame, Michigan or Purdue for a top football player?

More details: http://goo.gl/b5jJm

[quote=“tjb, post:1, topic:2604”]When waxing about the difficulty recruiting here for basketball, I often use this analogy: would anyone expect Indiana to beat out Notre Dame, Michigan or Purdue for a top football player?

http://goo.gl/cxebS[/quote]

Two things really helped - his brother is on the team and the head coach was an assistant at Oklahoma and got close to the kid while there.

This might help explain it:

Would I expect Indiana to beat out those schools? No.

Am I surprised a hometown-loving kid who could go to college with his brother and eventually take over the position from his brother one bro graduates picked a lessor program over the big guns? Also, no.

That hasn’t really worked so well for us before… :o

Though if your analogy holds Tim, then does that mean PSU will pick up Amile Jefferson this coming year?

I like the fact that he stayed at home to try and create something, rather than just jump on the assembly line at some football factory.

Take Talor Battle for instance. If he played at UNC or Duke…sure he’d be a lot more famous and probably would have gotten to a Final Four and won a championship. But he would have just been another great in the long, long line of greats at those schools. Here today, forgotten tomorrow when the next great takes his place. TB will always be remembered as one of the best PSU has ever produced. And if down the road the team becomes a perennial power, then he would have been the one to start the tradition, rather than just keep it warm for a few seasons.

Am I surprised a hometown-loving kid who could [u][i]go to college with his brother and eventually take over the position [/i] [/u] from his brother one bro graduates picked a lessor program over the big guns? Also, no.
That hasn't really worked so well for us before... :o

Nice

[quote="Tom, post:4, topic:2604"]Am I surprised a hometown-loving kid who could [u][i]go to college with his brother and eventually take over the position [/i] [/u] from his brother one bro graduates picked a lessor program over the big guns? Also, no.[/quote] That hasn't really worked so well for us before... :o

Nice

Brings up another question…

Outside of Battle/Buie and the Crispin bros., have we had any other bothers play for the program?

[quote="Tom, post:4, topic:2604"]Am I surprised a hometown-loving kid who could [u][i]go to college with his brother and eventually take over the position [/i] [/u] from his brother one bro graduates picked a lessor program over the big guns? Also, no.[/quote] That hasn't really worked so well for us before... :o

Nice

Brings up another question…

Outside of Battle/Buie and the Crispin bros., have we had any other bothers play for the program?

Plenty of bothers :slight_smile:

[quote="Tom, post:4, topic:2604"]Am I surprised a hometown-loving kid who could [u][i]go to college with his brother and eventually take over the position [/i] [/u] from his brother one bro graduates picked a lessor program over the big guns? Also, no.[/quote] That hasn't really worked so well for us before... :o

Nice

Brings up another question…

Outside of Battle/Buie and the Crispin bros., have we had any other bothers play for the program?

Plenty of bothers :slight_smile:

;D

I thought the same thing…but decided to keep my sarcastic self in check on this one.

As for the question…Lar is probably putting the whole list together as we speak. But it’s not nearly as lengthy as the football team’s.

[quote="Tom, post:4, topic:2604"]Am I surprised a hometown-loving kid who could [u][i]go to college with his brother and eventually take over the position [/i] [/u] from his brother one bro graduates picked a lessor program over the big guns? Also, no.[/quote] That hasn't really worked so well for us before... :o

Nice

Brings up another question…

Outside of Battle/Buie and the Crispin bros., have we had any other bothers play for the program?

Plenty of bothers :slight_smile:

;D

I thought the same thing…but decided to keep my sarcastic self in check on this one.

As for the question…Lar is probably putting the whole list together as we speak. But it’s not nearly as lengthy as the football team’s.

None recently (defined as since I’ve matriculated).

However, there are some earlier candidates.

Bob and Dave Edwards in the 50s.
John and Jim Lawther in the 40s.
C.J. and H.C. McWilliams in the 30s.
J.F. and J.L Smith in the 30s.
Several Wilsons in the 20s.
C.W. and J.S. Ruble at the turn of the other century.

I knew we could count on you, Lar.

Funny, how everyone goes by their initials from the 1930’s back…or is it just listed that way.

Maybe D.J. Newbill will start that trend again.

[quote=“NittanyIllini, post:6, topic:2604”]Though if your analogy holds Tim, then does that mean PSU will pick up Amile Jefferson this coming year?

I like the fact that he stayed at home to try and create something, rather than just jump on the assembly line at some football factory.

Take Talor Battle for instance. If he played at UNC or Duke…sure he’d be a lot more famous and probably would have gotten to a Final Four and won a championship. But he would have just been another great in the long, long line of greats at those schools. Here today, forgotten tomorrow when the next great takes his place. TB will always be remembered as one of the best PSU has ever produced. And if down the road the team becomes a perennial power, then he would have been the one to start the tradition, rather than just keep it warm for a few seasons.[/quote]

I don’t know about that. Talor was pretty damn known by playing at PSU.

I go back to Dave Popson. Came out of Bishop O’Reilly in the early 80’s and went to UNC. He had a ok career at UNC and went on to play in the NBA, but I always felt that if he had chosen a smaller program he may have been better. These guys go to these big programs and get lost on the depth chart, we see it a lot with PSU football. These stars are Big Fish in a Small Pond and then they go to UNC, Duke, etc and the team is loaded with McDonald’s All Americans. I think Talor chose wisely in coming to PSU. You get a lot more notoriety taking a poor team and carrying them than a good team and being a system guy.

[quote=“NittanyIllini, post:12, topic:2604”]I knew we could count on you, Lar.

Funny, how everyone goes by their initials from the 1930’s back…or is it just listed that way.

Maybe D.J. Newbill will start that trend again.[/quote]

It’s how they are listed.

[quote="NittanyIllini, post:6, topic:2604"]Though if your analogy holds Tim, then does that mean PSU will pick up Amile Jefferson this coming year?

I like the fact that he stayed at home to try and create something, rather than just jump on the assembly line at some football factory.

Take Talor Battle for instance. If he played at UNC or Duke…sure he’d be a lot more famous and probably would have gotten to a Final Four and won a championship. But he would have just been another great in the long, long line of greats at those schools. Here today, forgotten tomorrow when the next great takes his place. TB will always be remembered as one of the best PSU has ever produced. And if down the road the team becomes a perennial power, then he would have been the one to start the tradition, rather than just keep it warm for a few seasons.[/quote]

I don’t know about that. Talor was pretty damn known by playing at PSU.

I go back to Dave Popson. Came out of Bishop O’Reilly in the early 80’s and went to UNC. He had a ok career at UNC and went on to play in the NBA, but I always felt that if he had chosen a smaller program he may have been better. These guys go to these big programs and get lost on the depth chart, we see it a lot with PSU football. These stars are Big Fish in a Small Pond and then they go to UNC, Duke, etc and the team is loaded with McDonald’s All Americans. I think Talor chose wisely in coming to PSU. You get a lot more notoriety taking a poor team and carrying them than a good team and being a system guy.

Good point with Popson.

As for Battle, I mean by our “friends” like Jim Nantz and Clark Kellogg and Dick Vitale. They have such boners for guys who play for the big schools that the only time the Battle’s of the world get any recognition on a CBS or ESPN is when they are forced to cover them. For a lot of people on this board who live in PA or in the Big Ten footprint, to them it seems that Battle is well known throughout the college basketball world…and they would be partly correct. But come down to ACC country or to Texas or out to the Pac 12 area and unless people are paying any attention to Penn State basketball, Battle is a relative unknown for the amount of talent that he oozes.

That’s why the BTN has been so important in getting PSU’s name out there and in helping to recruit kids like Frazier and Glover and the like. How else do kids from those parts of the country find Penn State?

I think we do a lot of projecting when it comes to these things. I strongly suspect that Dave Popson had a great experience at a wonderful and prestigious university, playing for the Joe Paterno of college basketball, and does not look back at Penn State as a missed opportunity.

It’s hard to compare football and basketball.

Football requires a ton of depth and a football player only impacts one side of the ball unless they are Charles Woodson.

Two 5 star basketball players could lead you to the Final Four as long as the other guys can tie their shoes. Two 5 star football players need a ton of help just to play for a competitive football team.

If Bob Stoops took over at Indiana, doubt they would become a top Big Ten program.

If John Calipari took over at Penn State, Penn State would be an elite program in college basketball.

I have to be convinced that this will somehow different from Tim Couch going to Kentucky.

If it works out as well, the kid will become the #1 overall pick in the NFL draft in a few years.

[quote=“ChambersEra, post:17, topic:2604”]It’s hard to compare football and basketball.

Football requires a ton of depth and a football player only impacts one side of the ball unless they are Charles Woodson.

Two 5 star basketball players could lead you to the Final Four as long as the other guys can tie their shoes. Two 5 star football players need a ton of help just to play for a competitive football team.

If Bob Stoops took over at Indiana, doubt they would become a top Big Ten program.

If John Calipari took over at Penn State, Penn State would be an elite program in college basketball.[/quote]
I think this is why the 'underworld" of recruiting is so much worse in hoops. One elite player can make such a difference.

Did anyone see the little panel ESPN put together talking about recruiting in college football? They were talking a lot about the “7 man” coaches. I assume those are like the AAU hoops equivalent for football. Anyway, they all mentioned how they really would prefer to only deal with the HS coaches, but that’s hard to do in today’s enviornment.

At the end, BigE commish Trangesse (sorry!) chimed in something to the effect of “Football better get their act together. Basketball has real problems in the 3rd party agents and the like, and if football doesn’t get their act together they might be facing the same issues” I thought that was very telling (and honest!) from the commish in a league where I think they have to deal with those issues more than most.

That being said, your comment on the numbers and the impact 1 player can have is part of the reason football hasn’t gotten as bad as hoops yet.

Oh, and I doubt Coach Cal could make us into an “elite” program. Spanier would never allow him to do what he does to get in that “elite” talent in the first place.