PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Jones' game-winner was a designed play?


#1

So in this youtube recap of the game, the narrator says that DeChellis told Talor to use the backboard to make a pass on that last play. Fast forward to around 7:15 to hear it. If that really was a planned play, that’s pretty cool. Thumbs up to Ed for making that call. Worked out beautifully. :slight_smile:

PSU vs. Illinois 2011 Highlights


#2

[quote=“Spades88, post:1, topic:1783”]So in this youtube recap of the game, the narrator says that DeChellis told Talor to use the backboard to make a pass on that last play. Fast forward to around 7:15 to hear it. If that really was a planned play, that’s pretty cool. Thumbs up to Ed for making that call. Worked out beautifully. :slight_smile:

PSU vs. Illinois 2011 Highlights[/quote]
look at the man guarding Battle after “the shot” (4:46-4:47ish), he’s dumbfounded


#3

Don’t believe it was a planned play.
I think the situation is that Ed has previously coached Talor, and for that matter, others that when you have the defense collapsing on you, that you can then use the glass because in that type of situation there should be a week side rebounder for the put back.
Thanks for link to the video. Enjoyed it.


#4

Battle’s post game comments I thought talked about how he shot it the way he did to best put the rebounder in a position for an easy putback due to how the defense would collapse on Battle.


#5

See, Ed is a better coach then we thought.


#6

That’s not what he said.

The narrator says that Battle was coached to make sure he got the ball on the glass in situations “like that”. That’s a far cry from drawing up the play to do that. As others have said, that’s also what Battle said in his post game interview, i.e. in situations like that. he’s supposed to make sure he gets the ball on the glass.


#7

Still, props to TB for executing. Everyone looks smart through at least 5:30 tomorrow, we can enjoy that feeling for as long as it lasts! :slight_smile:


#8

And Drew, of course! The rest of his life he will have the memory of a game-winning slam with one second on the clock to beat a ranked opponent. How cool is that?


#9

It’s up there Tim, though didn’t he have 16 and 15 against future celtic Luke Harangody? Drew can play when he has some confidence.


#10

[quote=“UncleLar, post:6, topic:1783”]That’s not what he said.

The narrator says that Battle was coached to make sure he got the ball on the glass in situations “like that”. That’s a far cry from drawing up the play to do that. As others have said, that’s also what Battle said in his post game interview, i.e. in situations like that. he’s supposed to make sure he gets the ball on the glass. [/quote]

/Thread


#11
[quote="Spades88, post:1, topic:1783"]So in this youtube recap of the game, the narrator says that DeChellis told Talor to use the backboard to make a pass on that last play. Fast forward to around 7:15 to hear it. If that really was a planned play, that's pretty cool. Thumbs up to Ed for making that call. Worked out beautifully. :)[/quote]

That’s not what he said.

The narrator says that Battle was coached to make sure he got the ball on the glass in situations “like that”. That’s a far cry from drawing up the play to do that. As others have said, that’s also what Battle said in his post game interview, i.e. in situations like that. he’s supposed to make sure he gets the ball on the glass.

With respect, he talked about DeChellis telling Battle to use the glass to “make a pass.” That’s what caught my attention. So then my thought was that the play was designed to give Battle the option of bouncing it off the backboard to the other side of the lane for Jones to go grab and lay in. It would explain how Jones seemed to know exactly what was about to happen…

Of course, there’s a difference between a designed play and an improvised play. If it wasn’t planned out that way, then it wasn’t planned out that way, but that’s why I asked for people’s thoughts. Between the way Jones reacted to the ball leaving Talor’s hands and the narrator’s comment about DeChellis’ instructions to Talor, I thought it looked like the whole thing was intentional. I didn’t catch Talor’s comments, so I’ll assume it was improvised. Either way, it was a fantastic moment, so it’s all good…


#12

(EDIT: After re-reading this, I needed to change a few things at the top)

While most people think that Joe Montana was just throwing the ball away in the Montana to Clark famous connection, I once had Montana tell me three times in the same interview that he wasn’t throwing the ball away on the play that forever became known as “The Catch”. And after further review, Bill Walsh is on tape telling him right before the play that if he didn’t have anything to “throw it to Dwight”.

However, it wasn’t a planned play or anything that they drew up, but Joe knew that if all else failed, he could put the ball up to the back of the end zone where only Dwight Clark had a chance to catch it and no one else. Sure enough, as Ed “Too Tall” Jones closed in on Montana, he just floated the ball high over the defense and put it in a spot where only his player could catch it. Clark came out of the sky over Everson Walls and the rest, as they say, is history.

I bring this up, not to compare it to the play in question. For in the annals of sport, there really is no comparison to that play. No, I bring this up because great players know how to improvise and understand the situation. And while I’m hardly comparing Montana to Battle or Walsh to ED, the fact remains that Walsh had all the confidence in the world in Montana to improvise just as ED had in Battle to do the same.
The real question was did Andrew know to crash to the basket once his man left him, knowing that Battle was going to throw it off the backboard. My feeling is yes. It certainly looked like Jones was ready for that to happen.

To finish my Montana to Clark story…that play is something that they had fooled around with from time to time in practice, but had never done it in a game. Has Battle/Jones ever practiced something like that before? It sure looked like they have.


#13

You just summed up my thoughts on it better than I did. Jones’ position on the play, Talor’s angled shot, Jones’ anticipation; it looked to me like it was all purposeful. The guy’s comment in the video led me to think that maybe it was planned out to go down that way if/when Talor drew the extra defender. I didn’t catch Talor’s comments prior to that, though.

On a side note, since I don’t know much about you, gotta ask: how did you get a chance to talk with Montana? Sports reporter, maybe?


#14
[quote="NittanyIllini, post:12, topic:1783"]I once had Joe Montana tell me three times in the same interview that he was throwing the ball away on the play that forever became known as "The Catch". Yet after further review, Bill Walsh is on tape telling him right before the play that if he didn't have anything to "throw it to Dwight".[/quote]

You just summed up my thoughts on it better than I did. Jones’ position on the play, Talor’s angled shot, Jones’ anticipation; it looked to me like it was all purposeful. The guy’s comment in the video led me to think that maybe it was planned out to go down that way if/when Talor drew the extra defender. I didn’t catch Talor’s comments prior to that, though.

On a side note, since I don’t know much about you, gotta ask: how did you get a chance to talk with Montana? Sports reporter, maybe?

Produced a show for ESPN on the subject and got to sit down with Montana. He was terrific. PM me if you want the details.


#15
[quote="Spades88, post:1, topic:1783"]So in this youtube recap of the game, the narrator says that DeChellis told Talor to use the backboard to make a pass on that last play. Fast forward to around 7:15 to hear it. If that really was a planned play, that's pretty cool. Thumbs up to Ed for making that call. Worked out beautifully. :)[/quote]

That’s not what he said.

The narrator says that Battle was coached to make sure he got the ball on the glass in situations “like that”. That’s a far cry from drawing up the play to do that. As others have said, that’s also what Battle said in his post game interview, i.e. in situations like that. he’s supposed to make sure he gets the ball on the glass.

With respect, he talked about DeChellis telling Battle to use the glass to “make a pass.” That’s what caught my attention. So then my thought was that the play was designed to give Battle the option of bouncing it off the backboard to the other side of the lane for Jones to go grab and lay in. It would explain how Jones seemed to know exactly what was about to happen…

Of course, there’s a difference between a designed play and an improvised play. If it wasn’t planned out that way, then it wasn’t planned out that way, but that’s why I asked for people’s thoughts. Between the way Jones reacted to the ball leaving Talor’s hands and the narrator’s comment about DeChellis’ instructions to Talor, I thought it looked like the whole thing was intentional. I didn’t catch Talor’s comments, so I’ll assume it was improvised. Either way, it was a fantastic moment, so it’s all good…

There was also no time-out called so there was no specific play drawn up. It was give it to Battle and clear out so he can do his thing. I think this whole designed play thing came about because of Steve Jones and Dick Jerardi (plus Guido’s guys have been know to take some liberties with the truth in order to make a good production). I listened to Jones and Jerardi on the way home after the game and they had a discussion among themselves about whether or not Battle made an intentional pass or not. Both of them suggested that he did. Then they asked Talor about it when they interviewed him as player of the game. His first immediate reaction was “No”. He said that he gave it that hook shot because in last year’s game in Champaign when he tried the exact same play Tisdale blocked it. He said he hooked it to be sure and get it over Tisdale, but then he added that in practice DeChellis always tells him that whatever he does to be sure and get it onto the glass because he’s likely to have weakside help. The help was there in case it doesn’t go in but you can be sure that Battle was trying to make the shot, not pass it.

Since then, each time he’s asked about it he sort of avoids saying that he was actually trying to make it and talks more about how important it was to make sure that it got to the glass. That leaves the door open for it being a pass all the way and gives Guido’s crew the opportunity to explain it the way that they did


#16

[quote=“NittanyIllini, post:12, topic:1783”](EDIT: After re-reading this, I needed to change a few things at the top)

While most people think that Joe Montana was just throwing the ball away in the Montana to Clark famous connection, I once had Montana tell me three times in the same interview that he wasn’t throwing the ball away on the play that forever became known as “The Catch”. And after further review, Bill Walsh is on tape telling him right before the play that if he didn’t have anything to “throw it to Dwight”.

However, it wasn’t a planned play or anything that they drew up, but Joe knew that if all else failed, he could put the ball up to the back of the end zone where only Dwight Clark had a chance to catch it and no one else. Sure enough, as Ed “Too Tall” Jones closed in on Montana, he just floated the ball high over the defense and put it in a spot where only his player could catch it. Clark came out of the sky over Everson Walls and the rest, as they say, is history.

I bring this up, … [/quote]

… you bring this up just to break my heart all over again. The Landry era Cowboys never recovered from that play. I’m convinced that if Dallas wins that game (and they actually defensed that play well) they win the Super bowl and, with that under their belts, go on to win one or two more during the “danny white” era.

It is amazing to me that at various points in sports there can be a single play that changes the course of that sport’s history. “The catch” is one, the overturned Tom Brady fumble vs the Raiders was another (Pats go on to win SB and build a dynasty, Raiders sink to several consecutive losing seasons).

I honestly thought PSU had made that kind of play when Talor made the shot against Illinois two years ago. I’m still waiting, alas.


#17
[quote="NittanyIllini, post:12, topic:1783"](EDIT: After re-reading this, I needed to change a few things at the top)

While most people think that Joe Montana was just throwing the ball away in the Montana to Clark famous connection, I once had Montana tell me three times in the same interview that he wasn’t throwing the ball away on the play that forever became known as “The Catch”. And after further review, Bill Walsh is on tape telling him right before the play that if he didn’t have anything to “throw it to Dwight”.

However, it wasn’t a planned play or anything that they drew up, but Joe knew that if all else failed, he could put the ball up to the back of the end zone where only Dwight Clark had a chance to catch it and no one else. Sure enough, as Ed “Too Tall” Jones closed in on Montana, he just floated the ball high over the defense and put it in a spot where only his player could catch it. Clark came out of the sky over Everson Walls and the rest, as they say, is history.

I bring this up, …[/quote]

… you bring this up just to break my heart all over again. The Landry era Cowboys never recovered from that play. I’m convinced that if Dallas wins that game (and they actually defensed that play well) they win the Super bowl and, with that under their belts, go on to win one or two more during the “danny white” era.

It is amazing to me that at various points in sports there can be a single play that changes the course of that sport’s history. “The catch” is one, the overturned Tom Brady fumble vs the Raiders was another (Pats go on to win SB and build a dynasty, Raiders sink to several consecutive losing seasons).

I honestly thought PSU had made that kind of play when Talor made the shot against Illinois two years ago. I’m still waiting, alas.

Terrific point Oz…and exactly how it played out. The 49ers went on to win four of the following nine SB’s while the Cowboys didn’t taste the Super Bowl for the next decade when Jimmy/Troy/Emmitt showed up.

Maybe Jones putback slam will be the play we all look back to if PSU makes an historic run. Then again if that means that the Illini turn south, then I’m not sure if I totally like that idea :).


#18
[quote="NittanyIllini, post:12, topic:1783"](EDIT: After re-reading this, I needed to change a few things at the top)

While most people think that Joe Montana was just throwing the ball away in the Montana to Clark famous connection, I once had Montana tell me three times in the same interview that he wasn’t throwing the ball away on the play that forever became known as “The Catch”. And after further review, Bill Walsh is on tape telling him right before the play that if he didn’t have anything to “throw it to Dwight”.

However, it wasn’t a planned play or anything that they drew up, but Joe knew that if all else failed, he could put the ball up to the back of the end zone where only Dwight Clark had a chance to catch it and no one else. Sure enough, as Ed “Too Tall” Jones closed in on Montana, he just floated the ball high over the defense and put it in a spot where only his player could catch it. Clark came out of the sky over Everson Walls and the rest, as they say, is history.

I bring this up, …[/quote]

… you bring this up just to break my heart all over again. The Landry era Cowboys never recovered from that play. I’m convinced that if Dallas wins that game (and they actually defensed that play well) they win the Super bowl and, with that under their belts, go on to win one or two more during the “danny white” era.

It is amazing to me that at various points in sports there can be a single play that changes the course of that sport’s history. “The catch” is one, the overturned Tom Brady fumble vs the Raiders was another (Pats go on to win SB and build a dynasty, Raiders sink to several consecutive losing seasons).

I honestly thought PSU had made that kind of play when Talor made the shot against Illinois two years ago. I’m still waiting, alas.

Terrific point Oz…and exactly how it played out. The 49ers went on to win four of the following nine SB’s while the Cowboys didn’t taste the Super Bowl for the next decade when Jimmy/Troy/Emmitt showed up.

Maybe Jones putback slam will be the play we all look back to if PSU makes an historic run. Then again if that means that the Illini turn south, then I’m not sure if I totally like that idea :).

Jordan over Ehlo? What year was that? Was that at the beginning of the Bulls run, or was it later?

edit: just looked it up–it was in '89, 2 years before their first championship, but made it to the conference finals against Detroit for the first time w/ Jordan.


#19

[quote=“OzLion, post:16, topic:1783”]It is amazing to me that at various points in sports there can be a single play that changes the course of that sport’s history. “The catch” is one, the overturned Tom Brady fumble vs the Raiders was another (Pats go on to win SB and build a dynasty, Raiders sink to several consecutive losing seasons).

I honestly thought PSU had made that kind of play when Talor made the shot against Illinois two years ago. I’m still waiting, alas.[/quote]

On the other hand, the pros are different. In the immortal words of Dick Vermeil, asked about the preseason favorites in the NFC East and newly in from UCLA, “well, the Cowboys won it last year, and I didn’t see them graduating any seniors.”

Talor’s play a couple of years ago did put us in a position to build, for sure. And free agency has made the NFL dynasty potential a little lower, too. I just liked resurrecting that quote. :slight_smile:


#20

[quote=“NittanyIllini, post:12, topic:1783”](EDIT: After re-reading this, I needed to change a few things at the top)

While most people think that Joe Montana was just throwing the ball away in the Montana to Clark famous connection, I once had Montana tell me three times in the same interview that he wasn’t throwing the ball away on the play that forever became known as “The Catch”. And after further review, Bill Walsh is on tape telling him right before the play that if he didn’t have anything to “throw it to Dwight”.

However, it wasn’t a planned play or anything that they drew up, but Joe knew that if all else failed, he could put the ball up to the back of the end zone where only Dwight Clark had a chance to catch it and no one else. Sure enough, as Ed “Too Tall” Jones closed in on Montana, he just floated the ball high over the defense and put it in a spot where only his player could catch it. Clark came out of the sky over Everson Walls and the rest, as they say, is history.

I bring this up, not to compare it to the play in question. For in the annals of sport, there really is no comparison to that play. No, I bring this up because great players know how to improvise and understand the situation. And while I’m hardly comparing Montana to Battle or Walsh to ED, the fact remains that Walsh had all the confidence in the world in Montana to improvise just as ED had in Battle to do the same.
The real question was did Andrew know to crash to the basket once his man left him, knowing that Battle was going to throw it off the backboard. My feeling is yes. It certainly looked like Jones was ready for that to happen.

To finish my Montana to Clark story…that play is something that they had fooled around with from time to time in practice, but had never done it in a game. Has Battle/Jones ever practiced something like that before? It sure looked like they have.[/quote]

I would like to think so, but the truth is that there was about 2.0 seconds left in the game. Everyone should have been crashing the boards after that shot. It’s pretty much the last shot of the game, so everyone on the team is going after a tip-in if the shot doesn’t go in.

I doubt he was anticipating a pass, as much he was looking for a rebound just like in any other last second shot you will see in any other basketball game. It’s just good situational awareness.