PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

It's


#1

It’s not a bad time to be a Nittany Lion, is it?


#2

RIGHT ON! But, I’m sure there is a few members of this board that will come up with a few reasons why it is a bad time to be a Nittany Lion! ;D


#3

It’s a great time to be an alum.

I honestly don’t think I could have gone to Penn State today with the tuition being as expensive as it is.


#4

Wasn’t the animal inspiration for the Nittany Lion recently declared extinct? :slight_smile:


#5

[quote=“CAPPY, post:2, topic:2240”]RIGHT ON! But, I’m sure there is a few members of this board that will come up with a few reasons why it is a bad time to be a Nittany Lion! ;D[/quote] and I’m sure you’ll have reason for each one of them why its the most wonderful time to be a Nittany Lion fan :wink:


#6

[quote=“Skeeza, post:3, topic:2240”]It’s a great time to be an alum.

I honestly don’t think I could have gone to Penn State today with the tuition being as expensive as it is.[/quote]
Maybe we should start a thread about tuition and funding. Interesting op/eds in the Patriot news the last 2 weeks, one from Scott Paterno and one from Graham Spanier concerning state funding (or the lack thereof).

I think we all agree that:

  1. State of PA hasn’t been as helpful to PSU as compared to the other land-grand insitutions.
  2. It’s not going to get any better anytime soon.

#7
It's a great time to be an alum.

I honestly don’t think I could have gone to Penn State today with the tuition being as expensive as it is.


Maybe we should start a thread about tuition and funding. Interesting op/eds in the Patriot news the last 2 weeks, one from Scott Paterno and one from Graham Spanier concerning state funding (or the lack thereof).

I think we all agree that:

  1. State of PA hasn’t been as helpful to PSU as compared to the other land-grand insitutions.
  2. It’s not going to get any better anytime soon.

I was at a forum last night about gas drilling in PA. Two things were mentioned that are relevant to the budget topic.

One, it was suggested that an extraction tax would go a long way toward balancing the budget.

Two, the state reps that spoke both seemed to indicate that Corbett’s budget isn’t going anywhere as it stands.

On the first point, not taxing gas extraction is a pretty bad idea in my opinion. But I’d hate for the revenue to be used to balance the budget. That would be worse than not taxing it at all. In 20 years, or whenever the gas companies pack up and leave, PA would be left without that revenue stream AND have no money saved up to repair all the damage done. It would be better if that money was put in the bank for future cleanup. Just my opinion.

On the second point, we are at an interesting point in our state’s economy. The governor doesn’t want to raise taxes – he stated that he won’t do it. So to balance the budget, we need to cut spending. The one place guaranteed to RAISE taxes is to cut education spending. When school districts don’t get the money from the state, where does Corbett think the districts will get the money? By raising property taxes the maximum allowed by law every year. So by not raising our income tax and keeping a campaign promise, he’s raising our property taxes. Interesting strategy.


#8

It’s never a bad time to be a Nittany Lion. Now just happens to be a GREAT time.


#9

Gotta love Scott Paterno. Whether it’s saying that he believes Clinton had Ron Brown murdered (and was involved in 50 or so other murders) or taking on higher ed, he’s not concerned with what it looks like to the average Joe.

Much as I’d like to, I would like to disagree with him here. But I’m not sure I do.

I wouldn’t mind it if Penn State did not have to suck up to a bunch of know-mornings in the legislature every year.

I admired the University of California system in the 60s and 70s, and the SUNY system into the 90s even, where if you were an in-state student who could get in, tuition was for all practical purposes, free.

I think that was, and is, good public policy. In a Tea Party world, where the elites are automatically suspect and “college boys” are derided, I don’t think it’s going to be that way any time soon.

Scott isn’t even saying that, but rather saying that the money would be better spent on the state college system. That’s an argument I’d be willing to have with someone. As a manager, I want to invest in the high performers, not the average ones. I’d spend my money on the flagship schools. But I understand the other side.


#10

[quote=“mjg, post:7, topic:2240”]I was at a forum last night about gas drilling in PA. Two things were mentioned that are relevant to the budget topic.

One, it was suggested that an extraction tax would go a long way toward balancing the budget.

Two, the state reps that spoke both seemed to indicate that Corbett’s budget isn’t going anywhere as it stands.

On the first point, not taxing gas extraction is a pretty bad idea in my opinion. But I’d hate for the revenue to be used to balance the budget. That would be worse than not taxing it at all. In 20 years, or whenever the gas companies pack up and leave, PA would be left without that revenue stream AND have no money saved up to repair all the damage done. It would be better if that money was put in the bank for future cleanup. Just my opinion.[/quote]
I agree. If I remember correctly PA is the only major gas drilling state that doesn’t tax extraction. We should tax it if everyone else does, BUT we should make a point of taxing it at a lower rate than everyone else. We need the tax revenue, but we need the economic impact of the drilling even more.

Governments don’t save money because politicians know that they may get elected to cut taxes, but they get RE-elected by bringing home the bacon. A good example of governments saving excess revenues is the social security trust fund. It is filled with worthless IOU’s. Due to the recession it went into the red last year, which was about 10 years sooner than expected.


#11

Wow Tim. Where did that come from?


#12
[quote="mjg, post:7, topic:2240"]I was at a forum last night about gas drilling in PA. Two things were mentioned that are relevant to the budget topic.

One, it was suggested that an extraction tax would go a long way toward balancing the budget.

Two, the state reps that spoke both seemed to indicate that Corbett’s budget isn’t going anywhere as it stands.

On the first point, not taxing gas extraction is a pretty bad idea in my opinion. But I’d hate for the revenue to be used to balance the budget. That would be worse than not taxing it at all. In 20 years, or whenever the gas companies pack up and leave, PA would be left without that revenue stream AND have no money saved up to repair all the damage done. It would be better if that money was put in the bank for future cleanup. Just my opinion.[/quote]
I agree. If I remember correctly PA is the only major gas drilling state that doesn’t tax extraction. We should tax it if everyone else does, BUT we should make a point of taxing it at a lower rate than everyone else. We need the tax revenue, but we need the economic impact of the drilling even more.

Governments don’t save money because politicians know that they may get elected to cut taxes, but they get RE-elected by bringing home the bacon. A good example of governments saving excess revenues is the social security trust fund. It is filled with worthless IOU’s. Due to the recession it went into the red last year, which was about 10 years sooner than expected.

The economic impact could end up being NEGATIVE if we are not careful. They are talking about 180,000 wells in PA. They are expediting permits in state parks to generate lease revenue. Check out the budget a little bit closer. It mentions that the Secretary of the Department of Community and Economic Development is empowered to EXPEDITE and permit or action where the creation of jobs may be impacted. Check out who the secretary is, and check out his track record. And tell me this little clause isn’t meant to send a clear message to gas companies that “PA is open for business”.

By not taxing extraction, we’re going to be left to pay the cleanup tab. Thousands could pack up and leave the state altogether. Tourism will suffer. Fishing, hunting, etc. will also suffer. This has the potential to be a very bad thing.

And I’m a pro business republican. I’m not at all a tree hugger. So please pay attention to this potential problem. It will impact us all (in PA) in some way.


#13
In a Tea Party world, where the elites are automatically suspect and "college boys" are derided, I don't think it's going to be that way any time soon.
Wow Tim. Where did that come from?

Maybe you have a different perspective. Mine is that the Republican party is beholden to narrow interests that are anti-intellectual and anti-higher ed. It’s kind of the mirror-image pendulum swing of the far left-domination of the Democratic party in the 70s and 80s. It needed to become “big tent” by reducing litmus tests in order to win.

It was my impression that Republicans of the backlash variety control the Pennsylvania statehouse. Do you believe they could be convinced to strongly support higher education as public policy?


#14

I thought we weren’t supposed to talk politics on this board? :slight_smile:


#15

I’m proud to be a Nittany Lion and a Penn State Alum


#16

Oh boy, a political discussion. Always a risky thing on a sports board. :stuck_out_tongue:

Just to throw in my two cents, I agree that the lack of an extraction tax makes no sense. As was already mentioned, we are indeed the only state that doesn’t have one. That disturbs me, especially in light of all the environmental issues surrounding gas-drilling. At this point, I’m just relieved to live in a part of the state where my tap water isn’t flammable. :-\

I am extremely supportive of balancing the budget, though. Our current deficit and overall debt are big issues for me. I don’t think either can be addressed too quickly without any serious disruptions to state services, so it’ll have to be a gradual process, IMO. Still, I do feel it needs to be done, and the sooner that process begins, the better.

As for Corbett, I’m not very pleased with what I’ve seen so far. I get the impression that he’s something of a shady guy, and so I’m skeptical about his motivations. It’s still early though, and I’m hoping things do work out. Along those same lines, it would be nice to hear more discussion on how to raise revenues rather than just what to cut. Those aren’t mutually exclusive strategies, IMHO.

I’m not a partisan, so I have no desire to go after Corbett just because he’s a Republican. Given the circumstances we’re all facing right now, and considering the fact that the economy is clearly the most pressing issue, I think we need a fiscal pragmatist more than anything else. If he can be that guy, then I’ll be happy. But given his unwillingness to institute an extraction tax, I may be setting myself up for disappointment. Still, he hasn’t been in for very long, so I’m holding out hope that he’ll prove me wrong on that front.


#17

When it comes to budget cuts like that, before I can appreciate the cut itself I want to know why such a hugely popular, successful, respected university like Penn State is in such deep crap when it loses 4% of its budget.

What’s going on under the covers that makes this so hard to deal with, especially in a time of such great expansion and construction the school has seen the past decade?


#18

[quote=“Tom, post:17, topic:2240”]When it comes to budget cuts like that, before I can appreciate the cut itself I want to know why such a hugely popular, successful, respected university like Penn State is in such deep crap when it loses 4% of its budget.

What’s going on under the covers that makes this so hard to deal with, especially in a time of such great expansion and construction the school has seen the past decade?[/quote]

Like many others, I don’t enjoy seeing PSU’s funding get cut like this. At the same time, I’d be lying if I said that I don’t have the same questions you do.

I graduated back in '03, and I still remember the sight of all those constructions crews working around campus. It seemed like there were multiple new projects being started every other month. I do often wonder how many of those projects were truly necessary. Of course, not all of those projects were funded with state money, so there’s that to consider as well.


#19

It may be that servicing debt on capital expenses is out of whack, as Scott P’s dad might say. But the mere appearance of new buildings doesn’t mean the expansion efforts are inappropriate. its just an easy thing to see. There are about 8,000 more students at Penn State when I was the, so I would expect that in addition to retiring some outmoded facilities, they would have to add on 25 percent more to the base.

I’ve worked at product companies and service companies. The product companies were great. We could have a couple bad quarters and a successful product would mean a windfall because we didn’t have to add a ton of employees to support it. At the service company, there was not going to be a new product to dig us out of a whole. As soon as people weren’t buying our services, payroll was in jeopardy.

Penn State is like a service company where it’s clients decided not to pay as much. As soon as that happens, you’ve got to start watering down the product (increasing faculty to student ratio’,dropping programs) or finding new sources of revenue (raising tuition). There’s no pile of money from the launch of the new biochem major.


#20
[quote="tjb, post:9, topic:2240"]In a Tea Party world, where the elites are automatically suspect and "college boys" are derided, I don't think it's going to be that way any time soon.[/quote] Wow Tim. Where did that come from?

Maybe you have a different perspective. Mine is that the Republican party is beholden to narrow interests that are anti-intellectual and anti-higher ed. It’s kind of the mirror-image pendulum swing of the far left-domination of the Democratic party in the 70s and 80s. It needed to become “big tent” by reducing litmus tests in order to win.

It was my impression that Republicans of the backlash variety control the Pennsylvania statehouse. Do you believe they could be convinced to strongly support higher education as public policy?

I didn’t have a problem with your belief in “free” education. I don’t agree, but thats ok. I was baffled by your rant that tea partiers are basically jealous, ignorant, uneducated hate-mongers. I’m not in any tea party. Have never even considered attending any of the events, but I share their fiscal concerns. You seem to be way too willing to accept what the CNN’s and MSNBC’s of the world have been feeding you about them. Add in the fact that some liberal democrats are pretending to be tea partiers and doing stupid things to damage the public’s opinion. Obviously, any movement is going to have its extreme fringe and in today’s media it is the extremes that make the news not the average guy who is simply concerned about runaway spending bankrupting our children’s future.