Is Talor the problem and solution?


#1

I don’t post much largely because I don’t like to take the time however this has been something that happens every game. First let me say with out him they aren’t in any game. However like clock work late in the second half he starts to take bad shots. The last few games the announcers have even mentioned his shot selection so early in the shot clock is very poor. Last night for instance he took at least 2 3’s when there were 3 or 4 Illini back on D and no PSU players to rebound. I think we were up 4 at the time. I know he wants to finish the other team off at this time but it hasn’t happened yet. This is usually what sets up the other teams run at the end of the game. Again were not in the game at that point with out him but as the leader of the team if he makes better decisions and not force the issue maybe we win these games. Of course the way this season has gone they’d probably find a different way to lose! Any one else notice this?


#2

I’ll take a “stats geek” approach rather than an “eyes” approach to this , but imho the answer is no. Looking overall at Talor’s body of work, his offensive efficiency in terms of points per possession is a rather pedestrian 0.98, but that’s the same as it was last year when the team won the NIT. He’s shooting almost exactly the same percentage as last year, turning the ball over less, but getting to the free-throw line more often.

From a larger view, PSU’s offense is bad this year, no question–9th in the league with a slow downward trend in efficiency since 2007. But PSU’s D has been bad throughout the DeChellis era (typically at or near the bottom of the league), and the real reason for the improvement in the standings in 2008 and 2009 was an improvement in D–last year’s D was the most efficient since at least the late 1990’s, though still middle-of-the-pack for the league overall. Much of that improvement has been lost this year, though the D still isn’t quite as bad as in 2005-2007. For league games only, PSU’s defensive efficiency is second-to last (1.13, vs. 1.16 for Northwestern). PSU is in the bottom 3 in the league in terms of defensive shooting percentage, and that more than makes up for the fact that PSU is actually tied with Wiscy as the best defensive rebounding team in the league and with MSU as having the highest rate of opponent turnovers.

Sorry for the long diatribe…I think the main point is, Talor is not the issue, at least not on offense. The defense and FT shooting (PSU is dead last at 60.0% AND gets to the line fewer times per shot attempt than almost anyone else in the league) are where the war is being lost, imo.


#3

Talor is NOT the problem.

However, one thing I’d like the offense to lose is the high ball screen. It’s not a pick & roll because Talor makes NO effort to pass the ball to the often wide open screener. He just puts his head down and tries to dribble around it. It just wastes time off the 35 second clock to no purpose other than tiring Talor out.


#4

I thought the inability to get to the charity stripe really hurt us last night. Illinois picked up their 6th second half foul at the 11:50ish mark (it was just under 12:00. From that point until the 3:00 mark, we shot 2 FTs (it was a foul in the act of shooting). When you get into the bonus that early in a half, you absolutely have to make the other team pay for it. Going 9 minutes in that situation and only drawing one foul is inexcusable. I won’t fault any one guy in particular, however in that situation you need your guards/wings attacking the basket and your bigs looking to get the ball and make some strong moves. Instead, we started settling for jumpers, which is exactly what Illinois would have wanted.


#5

[quote=“BobK, post:2, topic:758”]From a larger view, PSU’s offense is bad this year, no question–9th in the league with a slow downward trend in efficiency since 2007. But PSU’s D has been bad throughout the DeChellis era (typically at or near the bottom of the league), and the real reason for the improvement in the standings in 2008 and 2009 was an improvement in D–last year’s D was the most efficient since at least the late 1990’s, though still middle-of-the-pack for the league overall. Much of that improvement has been lost this year, though the D still isn’t quite as bad as in 2005-2007. For league games only, PSU’s defensive efficiency is second-to last (1.13, vs. 1.16 for Northwestern). PSU is in the bottom 3 in the league in terms of defensive shooting percentage, and that more than makes up for the fact that PSU is actually tied with Wiscy as the best defensive rebounding team in the league and with MSU as having the highest rate of opponent turnovers.

Sorry for the long diatribe…I think the main point is, Talor is not the issue, at least not on offense. The defense and FT shooting (PSU is dead last at 60.0% AND gets to the line fewer times per shot attempt than almost anyone else in the league) are where the war is being lost, imo.[/quote]
Poor defense might be the most compelling reason De Chellis should no longer be coach of the Penn State men’s basketball team. Lets face it, DeChellis has not been able to recruit elite basketball athletes to play at State. If this is ever going to happen he most establish a winning tradition. Doing this with the type of players DeChellis has typically had in his program requires a excellent fundamentals based a foundation of solid defense. Not surprisingly the absence of this has cost DeChellis dearly as this year indicates. At some point and certainly 8 years should be enough time to understand this without any doubt, Curley or someone has to accept that DeChellis just isn’t that good of a coach and will never make State an elite BBall program.

ddd


#6

[quote=“TomF, post:3, topic:758”]Talor is NOT the problem.

However, one thing I’d like the offense to lose is the high ball screen. It’s not a pick & roll because Talor makes NO effort to pass the ball to the often wide open screener. He just puts his head down and tries to dribble around it. It just wastes time off the 35 second clock to no purpose other than tiring Talor out.[/quote]

I agree on losing the high ball screen, but you’ll have to point out the “wide open” screener next game. In a normal pick & roll, the roller rolls toward the basket. I have not seen one player, all year, “roll” to the basket. They set screens and then run to the arc, every single time. Q for you: would you rather Talor use the screen and pass to the arc to Jones, Ott, Brooks, or do something like you mention he does?

He does take bad shots late, agreed. But you need to consider that opponents turn up the heat on D, and some PSU players start playing like deer in the headlights. It’s something more common in important HS games. You’d think it’d be less of an issue in college. Unfortunately on this team, it isn’t. But that’s definitely a part of it. Late in games, you gotta step up, and this is a major reason for late collapses. Guys are disappearing.


#7
[quote="TomF, post:3, topic:758"]Talor is NOT the problem.

However, one thing I’d like the offense to lose is the high ball screen. It’s not a pick & roll because Talor makes NO effort to pass the ball to the often wide open screener. He just puts his head down and tries to dribble around it. It just wastes time off the 35 second clock to no purpose other than tiring Talor out.[/quote]

I agree on losing the high ball screen, but you’ll have to point out the “wide open” screener next game. In a normal pick & roll, the roller rolls toward the basket. I have not seen one player, all year, “roll” to the basket. They set screens and then run to the arc, every single time. Q for you: would you rather Talor use the screen and pass to the arc to Jones, Ott, Brooks, or do something like you mention he does?

Usually the two Andrews go straight down the lane. About half the time someone from the weak side steps over, but the other half of the time there is nobody near them. Admittedly, it’s often a tough pass since Talor is always getting double teamed on the play. But he should be able to slip a quick bounce pass between the double at least some of the times if he was even looking for the normal pick & roll action.

It’s really a minor quibble, since I’m not sure either of the Andrews would be able to finish the play consistently. My major gripe is, if you’re not going to ever make the pass, the play is just a waste of time & shot clock.


#8
[quote="TomF, post:3, topic:758"]Talor is NOT the problem.

However, one thing I’d like the offense to lose is the high ball screen. It’s not a pick & roll because Talor makes NO effort to pass the ball to the often wide open screener. He just puts his head down and tries to dribble around it. It just wastes time off the 35 second clock to no purpose other than tiring Talor out.[/quote]

I agree on losing the high ball screen, but you’ll have to point out the “wide open” screener next game. In a normal pick & roll, the roller rolls toward the basket. I have not seen one player, all year, “roll” to the basket. They set screens and then run to the arc, every single time. Q for you: would you rather Talor use the screen and pass to the arc to Jones, Ott, Brooks, or do something like you mention he does?

Usually the two Andrews go straight down the lane. About half the time someone from the weak side steps over, but the other half of the time there is nobody near them. Admittedly, it’s often a tough pass since Talor is always getting double teamed on the play. But he should be able to slip a quick bounce pass between the double at least some of the times if he was even looking for the normal pick & roll action.

It’s really a minor quibble, since I’m not sure either of the Andrews would be able to finish the play consistently. My major gripe is, if you’re not going to ever make the pass, the play is just a waste of time & shot clock.

Boy, I just haven’t seen that. Off the high ball screen? I’ll have to check next game. I have never seen Jones go down the lane looking for a pass after a screen. Brooks either. He always runs to the arc. Always. Ott, not sure. My major gripe this year is no post play. Even Ed said, “we’re having trouble establishing a post presence this year.” Of the bigs going in the post, as rarely as they do it, they are not sealing off the defender well at all, nothing like Jamelle did it. So the pass is often knocked away. Battle always got the ball to Jamelle on that safe skip pass. That’s mainly why his assists have dropped by 2 per game. His TO’s aren’t up, but assists are down pretty big.


#9

I don’t like PSU’s high screen(pick) and roll either with Talor and the Andrews. Usually it is a two man play. For us, it is not. It just jams up the top of the key area with 3 players (2 defenders) and makes it harder for the PG (Talor) to drive to the basket.
A quick/fast scoring guard needs room in which to work. When he beats his man and gets into the lane he can finish or dump off near the basket.


#10

This kid has no one to play with. It drives me nuts when people start even suggesting he should be blamed in any way shape or form. Why do you think he takes “bad shots”? He just wants to win. Is there ANYONE else on this team who can hit a clutch shot? Think about it. He’s STILL trying like hell to get his teammates involved throughout most of the game. And for what? So passes can bounce off their hands. So they can miss 10-footers. It’s an impossible situation for the kid. This is the only team in the nation with such a crazy disparity between one player and all the others. There is NO balance and it’s not like he hasn’t tried to create some. This kind of question just drives me freaking batty.


#11

Ditto.


#12

The problem definitely lies with Battle, but it isn’t really his fault - every time he sees eric17 out of the corner of his eye, he clenches up and bricks the shot :smiley:

Seriously, though, I gotta agree with djones. Battle isn’t the problem, and he isn’t the solution either. He might be able to do marginally more, but if PSU wants to win, they really need someone else to step up their game, preferably someone in the post. Simple as that. Unfortunately, making that happen isn’t quite so simple.

In brighter news, I have figured out what is wrong with Tim Frazier - he is too skinny and the cold PA winter has the poor kid half-frozen. I think if he just wears one of those Under-Armour full-body suits like football players wear in cold weather, he’ll warm up and so will his shooting. :wink:


#13
This kid has no one to play with. It drives me nuts when people start even suggesting he should be blamed in any way shape or form. Why do you think he takes "bad shots"? He just wants to win. Is there ANYONE else on this team who can hit a clutch shot? Think about it. He's STILL trying like hell to get his teammates involved throughout most of the game. And for what? So passes can bounce off their hands. So they can miss 10-footers. It's an impossible situation for the kid. This is the only team in the nation with such a crazy disparity between one player and all the others. There is NO balance and it's not like he hasn't tried to create some. This kind of question just drives me freaking batty.

Ditto.

Ditto Ditto.


#14

Frazier’s shooting isn’t the problem. It his lack of shooting. Dude won’t pull the trigger unless it’s to beat a shot clock, or the rare occassion he penetrates with the intentions of scoring.


#15

Agreed - this gets back to the lack of talent on PSU’s roster. Battle is a superstar, the rest of the team, to put it bluntly, sucks.


#16

As a senior at Strake Jesuit, he hit 7 treys the whole season, in I think 37 games. Not a shooter, at least not yet.


#17
[quote="LPcreation, post:14, topic:758"]Frazier's shooting isn't the problem. It his lack of shooting. Dude won't pull the trigger unless it's to beat a shot clock, or the rare occassion he penetrates with the intentions of scoring.[/quote]

As a senior at Strake Jesuit, he hit 7 treys the whole season, in I think 37 games. Not a shooter, at least not yet.

And how many did he take all season?

I agree he’s not a shooter. I’m just not sure why. If he’s shooting over 40% from the arc there is no reason to not shoot when open.


#18
[quote="LPcreation, post:14, topic:758"]Frazier's shooting isn't the problem. It his lack of shooting. Dude won't pull the trigger unless it's to beat a shot clock, or the rare occassion he penetrates with the intentions of scoring.[/quote]

As a senior at Strake Jesuit, he hit 7 treys the whole season, in I think 37 games. Not a shooter, at least not yet.

Wow, that is shocking. Was he supposed to blow by Big 10 guards like he did high school guards?


#19
[quote="LPcreation, post:14, topic:758"]Frazier's shooting isn't the problem. It his lack of shooting. Dude won't pull the trigger unless it's to beat a shot clock, or the rare occassion he penetrates with the intentions of scoring.[/quote]

As a senior at Strake Jesuit, he hit 7 treys the whole season, in I think 37 games. Not a shooter, at least not yet.

And how many did he take all season?

I agree he’s not a shooter. I’m just not sure why. If he’s shooting over 40% from the arc there is no reason to not shoot when open.

How many did he take in HS? I have no idea. But some say Buie’s not a shooter, yet he’s hit 5 treys in a game at least twice in HS. Actually, I think 6 once.

I’ve maintained for a long time that shooters and scorers are not made at DI. You come in as one, and your numbers usually go down, not up, e.g., Battle, Fredette, Neitzel, Eric Gordon. Of these 4, Battle was the lowest scorer, at around 30ppg his junior year. Fredette at 30, Neitzle 33, Gordon, 36. Numbers go down. It ain’t easier at DI. It does happen though. DJ Augustin’s went up. But he went through big change. From New Orleans, he moved to Texas after Katrina, and played only 1 year in Texas HS ball, so maybe he was adjusting to new environment.

The reason I think Buie will be a decent college scorer, is that in HS, he was relatively unselfish, and let the game come to him. Playing with Talor, who shot a lot, he wasn’t the go to guy. That improved, but until his junior year, or late soph year, he still played off the ball. In short, he wasn’t a ball hog, and didn’t ever play the point. But athletically, he can do it all, and his jumper’s fine, so I see him as 10ppg as a frosh, maybe 15ppg in later years. Like Talor, he’s also fearless. They’ll both want the ball at game’s end. Taran will be able to beat many 2’s off the dribble.

Buie plays tonight. I’ll be tuned in.


#20
[quote="LPcreation, post:14, topic:758"]Frazier's shooting isn't the problem. It his lack of shooting. Dude won't pull the trigger unless it's to beat a shot clock, or the rare occassion he penetrates with the intentions of scoring.[/quote]

As a senior at Strake Jesuit, he hit 7 treys the whole season, in I think 37 games. Not a shooter, at least not yet.

And how many did he take all season?

I agree he’s not a shooter. I’m just not sure why. If he’s shooting over 40% from the arc there is no reason to not shoot when open.

How many did he take in HS? I have no idea. But some say Buie’s not a shooter, yet he’s hit 5 treys in a game at least twice in HS. Actually, I think 6 once.

I’ve maintained for a long time that shooters and scorers are not made at DI. You come in as one, and your numbers usually go down, not up, e.g., Battle, Fredette, Neitzel, Eric Gordon. Of these 4, Battle was the lowest scorer, at around 30ppg his junior year. Fredette at 30, Neitzle 33, Gordon, 36. Numbers go down. It ain’t easier at DI. It does happen though. DJ Augustin’s went up. But he went through big change. From New Orleans, he moved to Texas after Katrina, and played only 1 year in Texas HS ball, so maybe he was adjusting to new environment.

The reason I think Buie will be a decent college scorer, is that in HS, he was relatively unselfish, and let the game come to him. Playing with Talor, who shot a lot, he wasn’t the go to guy. That improved, but until his junior year, or late soph year, he still played off the ball. In short, he wasn’t a ball hog, and didn’t ever play the point. But athletically, he can do it all, and his jumper’s fine, so I see him as 10ppg as a frosh, maybe 15ppg in later years. Like Talor, he’s also fearless. They’ll both want the ball at game’s end. Taran will be able to beat many 2’s off the dribble.

Buie plays tonight. I’ll be tuned in.

???

All I’m saying is Frazier % is pretty good. He’s not shooting enough. I know he’s got a rap as a bad shooter but he’s doing something right if he’s over 40%. He’s at least doing well enough to warrant more shots. I get really tired of seeing him pump fake a wide open 3.