PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

In the final analysis, synthesizing everything that has been written about the


#1

hiring of Pat Chambers and the “departure” of Ed, along with what Phil said on the Jed Donahue show yesterday, here’s my take on the situation:

  1. According to Phil, a lot of the stuff that frustrated Ed over the years was addressed in Chamber’s hire: i.e. higher salaries for head coach and assistants, bigger recruiting budget, and control of the venue.

  2. So Ed had to leave in order for the AD to get the message that we really needed to improve in those areas?? Really?

  3. Putting 1 and 2 together, it seems like (to borrow from the Parliamentary System), PSU/Curley had “lost confidence” in Ed and weren’t really inclined to extend his contract for another couple years (like they did after the NIT championship).

  4. Ultimately, it seemed like what PSU did was to give Ed the old “de facto” termination.

Couldn’t blame the guy if he was just a little bitter about all this.

Comments?


#2

No matter how you cut it…it’s win, win, win, win, win…


#3

Santini,
I definitely think you are right, I think Curley was having Dunn flashbacks so hence why there wasn’t a extension offered to Ed. Curley had an idea how to go in another direction, I have feeling Chamber was on Curely’s radar even before Ed officially left. Curely just got to really look into Chambers a year earlier then he thought had to.


#4

[quote=“Great Santini, post:1, topic:2461”]hiring of Pat Chambers and the “departure” of Ed, along with what Phil said on the Jed Donahue show yesterday, here’s my take on the situation:

  1. According to Phil, a lot of the stuff that frustrated Ed over the years was addressed in Chamber’s hire: i.e. higher salaries for head coach and assistants, bigger recruiting budget, and control of the venue.

  2. So Ed had to leave in order for the AD to get the message that we really needed to improve in those areas?? Really?

  3. Putting 1 and 2 together, it seems like (to borrow from the Parliamentary System), PSU/Curley had “lost confidence” in Ed and weren’t really inclined to extend his contract for another couple years (like they did after the NIT championship).

  4. Ultimately, it seemed like what PSU did was to give Ed the old “de facto” termination.

Couldn’t blame the guy if he was just a little bitter about all this.

Comments?[/quote]

I think your take is probably right (as to why ED resigned). I have no idea whether he is bitter, or not, but it certainly wouldn’t be surprising.


#5
[quote="Great Santini, post:1, topic:2461"]hiring of Pat Chambers and the "departure" of Ed, along with what Phil said on the Jed Donahue show yesterday, here's my take on the situation:
  1. According to Phil, a lot of the stuff that frustrated Ed over the years was addressed in Chamber’s hire: i.e. higher salaries for head coach and assistants, bigger recruiting budget, and control of the venue.

  2. So Ed had to leave in order for the AD to get the message that we really needed to improve in those areas?? Really?

  3. Putting 1 and 2 together, it seems like (to borrow from the Parliamentary System), PSU/Curley had “lost confidence” in Ed and weren’t really inclined to extend his contract for another couple years (like they did after the NIT championship).

  4. Ultimately, it seemed like what PSU did was to give Ed the old “de facto” termination.

Couldn’t blame the guy if he was just a little bitter about all this.

Comments?[/quote]

I think your take is probably right (as to why ED resigned). I have no idea whether he is bitter, or not, but it certainly wouldn’t be surprising.

Little bit of out there theory, but here it goes. Ed wasn’t really Tim choice but he was back channeled/strongly encourage to hire him. Tim gave him a fair chance to get things going in right direction but didn’t fire him until the was some Financial changes in the PSU system once he lost confidence in him. Now those changes are ready to be made and there is a more secure ability to push for funds, Tim was ready to make a change soon, Ed saw the writing and decided I just go where somewhere more secure.


#6

Given Pat’s age, job security at Boston, rising reputation, ties to Philly and Jay Wright, etc., there is no way he would have ever accepted this job without assurances (probably in writing) from the administration that they are financially committed to improving the basketball program. It looks like the school believes Pat has the tools to justify the increased commitment.

Like Jay Wright said in his quote, Penn State has shown that they can win, it’s a question of sustaining it.

A lot of people are excited about this hire. We finally have a salesman w/ Philly ties heading this program. We finally have a coach who worked within a program that made the NCAA Tournament and advanced on a regular basis. A few years ago Penn State was barely on TV, now every game is on TV w/ the Big Ten Network. That is a serious recruiting tool.

I’m stoked. It will take some time, but I believe Pat is going to improve the recruiting and bring the same attitude Jay Wright brought to Villanova. We are going to see a huge emphasis on defense, getting 50/50 balls, rebounding, taking charges, etc. That’s what is going to win games in the Big Ten.


#7

It’s called…WAKE UP CALL!!!


#8

I like Jay Wright a lot. Seems like a genuine guy. That was the thing I liked about ED the most, too. Hopefully Chambers is the same.

I think I’ve written this before, but about 15 years ago, a salesman at my software company asked me to accompany him to prospects because he thought I could explain the product well. I said to him that I did not consider myself a salesman but that I thought I could sell our product because I believed in it. “That’s not selling,” this lifelong sales guy sneered. “Anybody can sell something if they believe in it.”

I guess I like the salesman idea, too, but only if it is genuine.


#9

I think Santini has it right as well.

I’m still disappointed that Ed left. I wanted him to stay. Everyone knows he was a class act who was focused on academics and doing things the right way, but I also think he was on the right track with the team as well. He did what he was asked to do when he was hired; he pulled us out from the bottom of the B10 basement, got us back to the tourney and made us relevant again. He may have taken too long to do it, but he got it done. The question, I think, is whether he could keep it going. In the past five years, we’ve seen two trips to the NIT, one NIT title and one trip to the NCAAs. That’s pretty respectable, but it’s not quite what the AD is looking for, and I guess they just didn’t think Ed could improve on what he had accomplished so far. We’ll never know whether or not he would have continued to build on what he did, but I sincerely hope that Chambers is the guy who can take that next step. I definitely love his enthusiasm. He seems convinced he can make it happen, and that’s always something you want to see in a new HC.


#10

[quote=“Spades88, post:9, topic:2461”]I think Santini has it right as well.

I’m still disappointed that Ed left. I wanted him to stay. Everyone knows he was a class act who was focused on academics and doing things the right way, but I also think he was on the right track with the team as well. He did what he was asked to do when he was hired; he pulled us out from the bottom of the B10 basement, got us back to the tourney and made us relevant again. He may have taken too long to do it, but he got it done. The question, I think, is whether he could keep it going. In the past five years, we’ve seen two trips to the NIT, one NIT title and one trip to the NCAAs. That’s pretty respectable, but it’s not quite what the AD is looking for, and I guess they just didn’t think Ed could improve on what he had accomplished so far. We’ll never know whether or not he would have continued to build on what he did, but I sincerely hope that Chambers is the guy who can take that next step. I definitely love his enthusiasm. He seems convinced he can make it happen, and that’s always something you want to see in a new HC.[/quote]

some years.


#11

I think if after eight years your boss can’t tell you your job is safe (with an extension, a handshake agreement, a raise, support for his assistants, whatever it was), you know it’s not. And you make your decisions accordingly.


#12

I think 2009-2010 really ended Ed’s chances of staying much longer. We forget very quickly, but that had to be the most disappointing season I have ever seen at Penn State.


#13
[quote="Spades88, post:9, topic:2461"]I think Santini has it right as well.

I’m still disappointed that Ed left. I wanted him to stay. Everyone knows he was a class act who was focused on academics and doing things the right way, but I also think he was on the right track with the team as well. He did what he was asked to do when he was hired; he pulled us out from the bottom of the B10 basement, got us back to the tourney and made us relevant again. He may have taken too long to do it, but he got it done. The question, I think, is whether he could keep it going. In the past five years, we’ve seen two trips to the NIT, one NIT title and one trip to the NCAAs. That’s pretty respectable, but it’s not quite what the AD is looking for, and I guess they just didn’t think Ed could improve on what he had accomplished so far. We’ll never know whether or not he would have continued to build on what he did, but I sincerely hope that Chambers is the guy who can take that next step. I definitely love his enthusiasm. He seems convinced he can make it happen, and that’s always something you want to see in a new HC.[/quote]

some years.

True, but I still think he left us in a much better place than we were in when he came here, and I think he would have continued to build on that if he had been given that extension. But that’s just me.


#14

And I think that Dunn could have brought us back to this level if he had been allowed to stay. However, I want more, and apparently so does the AD.


#15
[quote="tjb, post:11, topic:2461"]I think if after eight years your boss can't tell you your job is safe (with an extension, a handshake agreement, a raise, support for his assistants, whatever it was), you know it's not. And you make your decisions accordingly.[/quote]

I think 2009-2010 really ended Ed’s chances of staying much longer. We forget very quickly, but that had to be the most disappointing season I have ever seen at Penn State.

I agree, but I hate the idea that that one season was enough to deny him an extension. We had, what, 8 or 9 losses by 6 points or less? That year’s team was the perfect example of a team that was truly better than their record indicated. And to follow up such a disappointing season with a trip to the tourney speaks volumes about Ed’s ability as a coach. Regardless of how many seniors you have on a team, it can’t be easy to take a sub-.500 team and turn them into a tourney team in just one season.


#16
[quote="Spades88, post:13, topic:2461"]True, but I still think he left us in a much better place than we were in when he came here, and I think he would have continued to build on that if he had been given that extension. But that's just me.[/quote]

And I think that Dunn could have brought us back to this level if he had been allowed to stay. However, I want more, and apparently so does the AD.

Everyone wants more, but a change in coaches is no guarantee that we’re going to get it. Don’t get me wrong; I think Chambers was the best option out there, and I was really happy to hear that he accepted the job. He seems like a fantastic guy for the job. However, I think Ed could have and would have given us more had he stayed. That’s all I’m saying.


#17
[quote="tjb, post:11, topic:2461"]I think if after eight years your boss can't tell you your job is safe (with an extension, a handshake agreement, a raise, support for his assistants, whatever it was), you know it's not. And you make your decisions accordingly.[/quote]

I think 2009-2010 really ended Ed’s chances of staying much longer. We forget very quickly, but that had to be the most disappointing season I have ever seen at Penn State.

I agree, but I hate the idea that that one season was enough to deny him an extension. We had, what, 8 or 9 losses by 6 points or less? That year’s team was the perfect example of a team that was truly better than their record indicated. And to follow up such a disappointing season with a trip to the tourney speaks volumes about Ed’s ability as a coach. Regardless of how many seniors you have on a team, it can’t be easy to take a sub-.500 team and turn them into a tourney team in just one season.

Maybe, but you look at what happened after that season, and Ed lost part of the future for his program when Babb and Edwards left. Then he brings in Buie and he’s gone after 1 season. We really seemed to be heading for a Dunn-esque ending to Ed’s tenure at PSU. The Staten transfer was a bit of encouragement, but I think Ed knew that he was probably not going to be able to get back to the NCAA tournament in the next 2 to 3 years, maybe not even the NIT. Let’s remember that Ed was not fired, and previously was given lots of extensions and chances to execute his vision.


#18

Neither is standing pat.


#19

Well, we might have to agree to disagree on that one. I mean, no doubt that this season was going to be a little rough regardless of who was in there as coach. Losing those 4 seniors was inevitably going to hurt. But I was much more optimistic about the season after next and beyond. I really like our recruiting class. The consensus seems to be that Lewis is a really good player, and we finally have two legitimate centers on the team (Alexis and Ackerman). With Sasa coming back as well, Graham having a year to bulk up and prepare himself, and Frazier really breaking out towards the end of this past season, I felt great about our chances going forward.

But like a lot of other people have already said, I suppose Ed thought that a mediocre performance next season would have gotten him fired, and so he went for the job security that Navy offered him.


#20

Put yourself in Curley’s shoes for a minute. You fired Jerry Dunn after 8 years. Arguably, he did more than Ed in 8 years. You don’t want to fire Ed because things seem to be going in an OK direction, but it’s not exactly a situation you can be thrilled with either.