Impact of academics on expansion


#1

I thought this subject was worthy of it’s own topic, so I started one.

Didn’t want to bog down the BIG TEN expansion topic with it.

I will pick up an mjg post about academics playing an important role in the selection of new BIG TEN schools…

[quote="mjg, post:362, topic:769"]For those that still think this is all about football revenue, think again.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=5267138

[quote] Among the myths growing in the information vacuum is that this is an athletic issue – all about the TV revenue, right? The reality, Swarbrick said, is that this is being driven much more by the academic side of campus at most schools than by the athletic side. Presidents and chancellors see this as a rare opportunity to change their educational neighborhood and better their universities in the process.

“If there’s anything about this I think is widely misunderstood, it’s the extent to which academic decisions are influencing this,” Swarbrick said. “They sort of underline the very discussion here in a way the general sports fan can’t really appreciate.” [/quote][/quote]

Don’t believe a word of this! I think it is just “image” nice-nice talk. Academics play a part BUT is a small part compared to the MONEY
I just don’t believe Domers in general.

How many times does it have to be said? Money for academic research dwarfs athletic money. It is about the money… for both academics and athletics

It has to be said a lot, IaoDan, because you don’t seem to understand.

Are they talking about expanding the CIC? NO !!! They are talking about expanding the BIG TEN.

I never heard it mentioned, “the CIC wants to add more members to increase research dollars. Lets see which highly acreditted university has a sports program.”

That’s because we are reading the sports pages. But, in fact, I mentioned in this thread that I heard a rumor about the CIC adding more members – Pitt and Carnegie Mellon. Only Pitt would be competing athletically. I realize that what I heard is a rumor and likely wishful thinking from some Pittsburghers. But it is still out there.

Here’s the good word from an economics professor…

New alliances, league affiliation ready to reshape college sports

He (delany) also has said that academics are a top priority, emphasizing AAU membership as a requirement for Big Ten membership....

…“Of course they’re going to say that,” Smith College economics professor Andrew Zimbalist said of the Big Ten’s repeated emphasis on academics. "What are they going to say? ‘We’re going to prostitute ourselves?’ " If the Big Ten truly valued academics, it would not pick Nebraska, Zimbalist said. He notes the school’s academics aren’t on par with those of Michigan, Illinois and other Big Ten schools.

“What’s happened over the decades, more so in the last two, commercial value has trumped academic value, and that’s decidedly wrong,” he said.


#2
He (delany) also has said that academics are a top priority, emphasizing AAU membership as a requirement for Big Ten membership....

…“Of course they’re going to say that,” Smith College economics professor Andrew Zimbalist said of the Big Ten’s repeated emphasis on academics. "What are they going to say? ‘We’re going to prostitute ourselves?’ " If the Big Ten truly valued academics, it would not pick Nebraska, Zimbalist said. He notes the school’s academics aren’t on par with those of Michigan, Illinois and other Big Ten schools.

“What’s happened over the decades, more so in the last two, commercial value has trumped academic value, and that’s decidedly wrong,” he said.

meaning Penn State’s commercial value at teh time trumped our academic value…however, we have stepped up to the plate and improved our academics which has resulted in a lot of expansion and rising tuition and made spanier a goat to many…

…will the huskers re-evaluate their overall academics? time will tell.


#3

[quote=“manatree, post:2, topic:1224”][quote=New alliances, league affiliation ready to reshape college sports]
He (delany) also has said that academics are a top priority, emphasizing AAU membership as a requirement for Big Ten membership…

…“Of course they’re going to say that,” Smith College economics professor Andrew Zimbalist said of the Big Ten’s repeated emphasis on academics. "What are they going to say? ‘We’re going to prostitute ourselves?’ " If the Big Ten truly valued academics, it would not pick Nebraska, Zimbalist said. He notes the school’s academics aren’t on par with those of Michigan, Illinois and other Big Ten schools.

“What’s happened over the decades, more so in the last two, commercial value has trumped academic value, and that’s decidedly wrong,” he said.
[/quote]

meaning Penn State’s commercial value at teh time trumped our academic value…however, we have stepped up to the plate and improved our academics which has resulted in a lot of expansion and rising tuition and made spanier a goat to many…

…will the huskers re-evaluate their overall academics? time will tell.[/quote]

So, if the schools are seen as being able to “step up to the plate and improve their academics”, what does it matter if they are not up to par now (i.e. Nebraksa and Penn State)? Does that mean current stature is no longer important?


#4

Nebraska wants to begin academic integration into the Big Ten immediately


#5

You mean the CIC, right? :-X :-[


#6

I don’t know…was PSU any further behind MSU when they joined in '53? I’m not claiming that we had an academic ultimatum when we joined, I’m just going on the changes that I’ve seen in the University since I’ve arrived in 1990. More focus placed on research and graduate programs such as IST, Law, etc. while other areas have been de-emphasized like American Studies, Ag, etc.

The big question is Notre Dame. Their academic focus is primarily as a liberal arts undergraduate school. In that regard, they are a great academic school. However, I would argue that PSU was much further along as a research oriented graduate institution when we joined than Notre Dame is now.


#7

Academics aren’t enough to get anyone in, but can be a disqualifier. In Nebraska you have a great football school with above average academics. As long as they are a B+, with commitment to improvement, that is enough. They are a factor.


#8

Spanier can now raise tuition again and blame in on Nebraska :wink:


#9

Meaningless terms and assessments that are thrown around. Nebraska is easily in the bottom half of the BCS in regards to academics.

If a school is able to raise the revenue of the league, they will find an excuse to get them in.

Nebraska’s academics are behind all other BIG TEN schools, but they are in. As manatree points out, Notre Dame is a liberal arts school. They are NOT a member of AAU, but you can bet your rump that they will be accepted with open arms if they accept an invitation.

Here’s a question, can you name a high-revenue producing school that would be a good candidate but will be turned down due to academics?

(…que the Jeopardy theme… do - de - do - do, do - de - dooo, do - de - do - de - dooo, de-do-de-do-de…)


#10
[quote="laoDan, post:7, topic:1224"]Academics aren't enough to get anyone in, but can be a disqualifier. In Nebraska you have a great football school with [b]above average academics[/b]. As long as [b]they are a B+[/b], with commitment to improvement, that is enough. They are a factor.[/quote]

Meaningless terms and assessments that are thrown around. Nebraska is easily in the bottom half of the BCS in regards to academics.

If a school is able to raise the revenue of the league, they will find an excuse to get them in.

Nebraska’s academics are behind all other BIG TEN schools, but they are in. As manatree points out, Notre Dame is a liberal arts school. They are NOT a member of AAU, but you can bet your rump that they will be accepted with open arms if they accept an invitation.

Here’s a question, can you name a high-revenue producing school that would be a good candidate but will be turned down due to academics?

(…que the Jeopardy theme… do - de - do - do, do - de - dooo, do - de - do - de - dooo, de-do-de-do-de…)

Kansas? Syracuse?

Boy, those “lyrics” weren’t quite cutting it for me. So here it is in video! Anybody know the answer to the “Final Jeopardy” question? Should be easy.

Jeopardy Theme song played on a pipe organ


#11

Notre Dame’s undergraduate education is first rate (arguably better than that of any Big Ten school), and it has a fine law school, but ND doesn’t not have a large graduate school and science research program. Overall, ND has an admired academic reputation and that fits the Big Ten brand, even if ND is not an AAU member. I’m sure the CIC is attractive to the Notre Dame faculty, but I don’t see Golden Dome changing its undergraduate liberal arts priorities to become more Big Ten-like, nor do I think the Big Ten should or will expect them to.


#12
[quote="Skeeza, post:3, topic:1224"]So, if the schools are seen as being able to "step up to the plate and improve their academics", what does it matter if they are not up to par now (i.e. Nebraksa and Penn State)? Does that mean current stature is no longer important?[/quote]

I don’t know…was PSU any further behind MSU when they joined in '53?

for what it’s worth, I mis-spoke a bit here. I had thought the CIC was in existence since the 1940’s. The CIC didn’t form until 1958, after MSU had already joined.

MSU became a member of the AAU in 1964. PSU became a member in 1958 after Eisenhower’s managed an major expansion. and makeover.


#13
He (delany) also has said that academics are a top priority, emphasizing AAU membership as a requirement for Big Ten membership....

…“Of course they’re going to say that,” Smith College economics professor Andrew Zimbalist said of the Big Ten’s repeated emphasis on academics. "What are they going to say? ‘We’re going to prostitute ourselves?’ "If the Big Ten truly valued academics, it would not pick Nebraska, Zimbalist said. He notes the school’s academics aren’t on par with those of Michigan, Illinois and other Big Ten schools.

“What’s happened over the decades, more so in the last two, commercial value has trumped academic value, and that’s decidedly wrong,” he said.

Where does Nebraska rank?

They are at the bottom end of the top 100 (and the bottom of their new conference). But they are a huge research school that fits the criteria.

Current CIC Member ranking (2010 US News and World Reports)

  1. University of Chicago
  2. Northwestern
  3. University of Michigan
  4. University of Illinois
  5. University of Wisconsin
  6. Pennsylvania State University
  7. Ohio State University
  8. Purdue University
  9. University of Minnesota
  10. Indiana University
  11. Michigan State University
  12. University of Iowa
  13. University of Nebraska

Other schools mentioned:

  1. University of Notre Dame
  2. Carnegie Mellon
  3. University of Texas
  4. University of Maryland
  5. University of Pittsburgh
  6. Syracuse University
  7. Texas A&M University
  8. Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey
  9. University of Connecticut
  10. Iowa State University
  11. University of Missouri
  12. University of Oklahoma

Maybe Nebraska was needed to get Texas and Texas A&M too? We’ll see how this plays out. Keep in mind this quote “this is being driven much more by the academic side of campus” doesn’t mean it’s not about money. Just the money on the academic side is much larger than the football side. And Nebraska is HUGE. So they probably draw a pretty large pool or research $$$.


#14
[quote="laoDan, post:7, topic:1224"]Academics aren't enough to get anyone in, but can be a disqualifier. In Nebraska you have a great football school with [b]above average academics[/b]. As long as [b]they are a B+[/b], with commitment to improvement, that is enough. They are a factor.[/quote]

Meaningless terms and assessments that are thrown around. Nebraska is easily in the bottom half of the BCS in regards to academics.

If a school is able to raise the revenue of the league, they will find an excuse to get them in.

Nebraska’s academics are behind all other BIG TEN schools, but they are in. As manatree points out, Notre Dame is a liberal arts school. They are NOT a member of AAU, but you can bet your rump that they will be accepted with open arms if they accept an invitation.

Here’s a question, can you name a high-revenue producing school that would be a good candidate but will be turned down due to academics?

(…que the Jeopardy theme… do - de - do - do, do - de - dooo, do - de - do - de - dooo, de-do-de-do-de…)

Kansas? Syracuse?

Boy, those “lyrics” weren’t quite cutting it for me. So here it is in video! Anybody know the answer to the “Final Jeopardy” question? Should be easy.

Jeopardy Theme song played on a pipe organ

What is “To Kill a Mockingbird”?


#15
[quote="laoDan, post:7, topic:1224"]Academics aren't enough to get anyone in, but can be a disqualifier. In Nebraska you have a great football school with [b]above average academics[/b]. As long as [b]they are a B+[/b], with commitment to improvement, that is enough. They are a factor.[/quote]

Meaningless terms and assessments that are thrown around. Nebraska is easily in the bottom half of the BCS in regards to academics.

If a school is able to raise the revenue of the league, they will find an excuse to get them in.

Nebraska’s academics are behind all other BIG TEN schools, but they are in. As manatree points out, Notre Dame is a liberal arts school. They are NOT a member of AAU, but you can bet your rump that they will be accepted with open arms if they accept an invitation.

Here’s a question, can you name a high-revenue producing school that would be a good candidate but will be turned down due to academics?

(…que the Jeopardy theme… do - de - do - do, do - de - dooo, do - de - do - de - dooo, de-do-de-do-de…)

The Big Ten would have to go way beyond 16 for Kentucky, LSU, S Carolina, Tennessee, Ole Miss, Miss State, Cincinnati, Louisville, S Florida, West Virginia, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, or Arizona State to be considered. There are too many schools with similar athletic programs and superior academics.

Of course athletics matter, but dismissing academics entirely is foolish. All else being equal better academic institutions have an advantage over lesser ones. It’s not like people are suggesting we add Princeton over Rutgers.

Then again, since this is all about trying to prove one of your ridiculous points I’m sure you’ll make up some reason these schools don’t count. In the meantime I’ll go wait for Notre Dame to join the Big XII.


#16
[quote="laoDan, post:7, topic:1224"]Academics aren't enough to get anyone in, but can be a disqualifier. In Nebraska you have a great football school with [b]above average academics[/b]. As long as [b]they are a B+[/b], with commitment to improvement, that is enough. They are a factor.[/quote]

Meaningless terms and assessments that are thrown around. Nebraska is easily in the bottom half of the BCS in regards to academics.

If a school is able to raise the revenue of the league, they will find an excuse to get them in.

Nebraska’s academics are behind all other BIG TEN schools, but they are in. As manatree points out, Notre Dame is a liberal arts school. They are NOT a member of AAU, but you can bet your rump that they will be accepted with open arms if they accept an invitation.

Here’s a question, can you name a high-revenue producing school that would be a good candidate but will be turned down due to academics?

(…que the Jeopardy theme… do - de - do - do, do - de - dooo, do - de - do - de - dooo, de-do-de-do-de…)

Kansas? Syracuse?

Boy, those “lyrics” weren’t quite cutting it for me. So here it is in video! Anybody know the answer to the “Final Jeopardy” question? Should be easy.

Jeopardy Theme song played on a pipe organ

What is “To Kill a Mockingbird”?

Bingo.


#17
[quote="laoDan, post:7, topic:1224"]Academics aren't enough to get anyone in, but can be a disqualifier. In Nebraska you have a great football school with [b]above average academics[/b]. As long as [b]they are a B+[/b], with commitment to improvement, that is enough. They are a factor.[/quote]

Meaningless terms and assessments that are thrown around. Nebraska is easily in the bottom half of the BCS in regards to academics.

If a school is able to raise the revenue of the league, they will find an excuse to get them in.

Nebraska’s academics are behind all other BIG TEN schools, but they are in. As manatree points out, Notre Dame is a liberal arts school. They are NOT a member of AAU, but you can bet your rump that they will be accepted with open arms if they accept an invitation.

Here’s a question, can you name a high-revenue producing school that would be a good candidate but will be turned down due to academics?

(…que the Jeopardy theme… do - de - do - do, do - de - dooo, do - de - do - de - dooo, de-do-de-do-de…)

Kansas? Syracuse?

Kansas is not considered because of TV viewers. academics have nothing to do with it.

Syracuse ranked about 60th, so they would be considered a “good academic university”. They would not be disqualified.


#18
[quote="laoDan, post:7, topic:1224"]Academics aren't enough to get anyone in, but can be a disqualifier. In Nebraska you have a great football school with [b]above average academics[/b]. As long as [b]they are a B+[/b], with commitment to improvement, that is enough. They are a factor.[/quote]

Meaningless terms and assessments that are thrown around. Nebraska is easily in the bottom half of the BCS in regards to academics.

If a school is able to raise the revenue of the league, they will find an excuse to get them in.

Nebraska’s academics are behind all other BIG TEN schools, but they are in. As manatree points out, Notre Dame is a liberal arts school. They are NOT a member of AAU, but you can bet your rump that they will be accepted with open arms if they accept an invitation.

Here’s a question, can you name a high-revenue producing school that would be a good candidate but will be turned down due to academics?

(…que the Jeopardy theme… do - de - do - do, do - de - dooo, do - de - do - de - dooo, de-do-de-do-de…)

The Big Ten would have to go way beyond 16 for Kentucky, LSU, S Carolina, Tennessee, Ole Miss, Miss State, Cincinnati, Louisville, S Florida, West Virginia, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, or Arizona State to be considered. There are too many schools with similar athletic programs and superior academics.

Of course athletics matter, but dismissing academics entirely is foolish. All else being equal better academic institutions have an advantage over lesser ones. It’s not like people are suggesting we add Princeton over Rutgers.

Then again, since this is all about trying to prove one of your ridiculous points I’m sure you’ll make up some reason these schools don’t count. In the meantime I’ll go wait for Notre Dame to join the Big XII.

I’m glad you referenced my prediction, because I think it just got a little closer to reality.

BIG XII is staying together. Texas got a deal to where they not only are pulling in league revenue, but they will also be able to have their very own network deal.

I wonder who else would like a sweetheart deal like that? hmmm…


#19
[quote="laoDan, post:7, topic:1224"]Academics aren't enough to get anyone in, but can be a disqualifier. In Nebraska you have a great football school with [b]above average academics[/b]. As long as [b]they are a B+[/b], with commitment to improvement, that is enough. They are a factor.[/quote]

Meaningless terms and assessments that are thrown around. Nebraska is easily in the bottom half of the BCS in regards to academics.

If a school is able to raise the revenue of the league, they will find an excuse to get them in.

Nebraska’s academics are behind all other BIG TEN schools, but they are in. As manatree points out, Notre Dame is a liberal arts school. They are NOT a member of AAU, but you can bet your rump that they will be accepted with open arms if they accept an invitation.

Here’s a question, can you name a high-revenue producing school that would be a good candidate but will be turned down due to academics?

(…que the Jeopardy theme… do - de - do - do, do - de - dooo, do - de - do - de - dooo, de-do-de-do-de…)

The Big Ten would have to go way beyond 16 for Kentucky, LSU, S Carolina, Tennessee, Ole Miss, Miss State, Cincinnati, Louisville, S Florida, West Virginia, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, or Arizona State to be considered. There are too many schools with similar athletic programs and superior academics.

Of course athletics matter, but dismissing academics entirely is foolish. All else being equal better academic institutions have an advantage over lesser ones. It’s not like people are suggesting we add Princeton over Rutgers.

Then again, since this is all about trying to prove one of your ridiculous points I’m sure you’ll make up some reason these schools don’t count. In the meantime I’ll go wait for Notre Dame to join the Big XII.

I’m glad you referenced my prediction, because I think it just got a little closer to reality.

BIG XII is staying together. Texas got a deal to where they not only are pulling in league revenue, but they will also be able to have their very own network deal.

I wonder who else would like a sweetheart deal like that? hmmm…

Yeah, and when I jump I’m closer to the moon.


#20
[quote="laoDan, post:7, topic:1224"]Academics aren't enough to get anyone in, but can be a disqualifier. In Nebraska you have a great football school with [b]above average academics[/b]. As long as [b]they are a B+[/b], with commitment to improvement, that is enough. They are a factor.[/quote]

Meaningless terms and assessments that are thrown around. Nebraska is easily in the bottom half of the BCS in regards to academics.

If a school is able to raise the revenue of the league, they will find an excuse to get them in.

Nebraska’s academics are behind all other BIG TEN schools, but they are in. As manatree points out, Notre Dame is a liberal arts school. They are NOT a member of AAU, but you can bet your rump that they will be accepted with open arms if they accept an invitation.

Here’s a question, can you name a high-revenue producing school that would be a good candidate but will be turned down due to academics?

(…que the Jeopardy theme… do - de - do - do, do - de - dooo, do - de - do - de - dooo, de-do-de-do-de…)

The Big Ten would have to go way beyond 16 for Kentucky, LSU, S Carolina, Tennessee, Ole Miss, Miss State, Cincinnati, Louisville, S Florida, West Virginia, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, or Arizona State to be considered. There are too many schools with similar athletic programs and superior academics.

Of course athletics matter, but dismissing academics entirely is foolish. All else being equal better academic institutions have an advantage over lesser ones. It’s not like people are suggesting we add Princeton over Rutgers.

Then again, since this is all about trying to prove one of your ridiculous points I’m sure you’ll make up some reason these schools don’t count. In the meantime I’ll go wait for Notre Dame to join the Big XII.

I’m glad you referenced my prediction, because I think it just got a little closer to reality.

BIG XII is staying together. Texas got a deal to where they not only are pulling in league revenue, but they will also be able to have their very own network deal.

I wonder who else would like a sweetheart deal like that? hmmm…

Yeah, and when I jump I’m closer to the moon.

…and all this time, I thought that’s where you were posting from… ;D