PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Imagine its 1977 and soccer is taking off on college campuses(Hockey arena talk)


#1

This is beaver Stadium in 1977

Its still got the track around the field but lately its apparent that for the needs to football team the track has gotta go. (the seats were too far away)

[i]What would happen if by chance in some strange turn of events soccer were sweeping through college campuses and everybody was convinced that all you needed was a nice 25,000 to 35,000 seat soccer specific stadium to accommodate them and produce a revenue generating fall program to coincide with your football program.

Now say a wealthy benefactor was to drop in and declare that he would foot most of the bill for this stadium provided the university match it with independent funds.

Now imagine a suddenly lonely and forlorn voice in the back of the room speaking up and pointing out correctly that Beaver Stadium can accommodate a soccer pitch right now (put grass on part of the track) and that it needs to some work to make a more intimate football stadium as well. That we could roll those 2 separate projects into one to save money and to see, once and for all, if the soccer thing really will take off. (build a soccer stadium in 15 years if things go well)

But alas he is shouted down by such things as: 83,000 is way too big for a soccer program and we are going to have 2 separate stadiums to use going forward.

So we move ahead with this new project. A bunch of money is sunk into this new smaller stadium while Beaver Stadium is renovated but nothing like the renovation we saw that took place over the years from 1978-82.

Going forward in this virtual world there just wasn’t enough money in the long term down economy of the late 70s early 80s to support 2 state of the art stadiums side by side. It would not be till the stadium explosion of the late 90s that Beaver Stadium would be a great football venue. Oh and the maintenance costs for keeping both places up caused a drag on the over all athletic budget. Costs that could have been put off until said late 90s stadium boom when a soccer stadium could have been built. [/i]

End of virtual world (yes this was the best counter example that I could think of for the average Penn Stater. )

If you think there is going to be enough money to support 2 Arenas used in the same winter season (one 15,000 and the other 6,000) over the next 15 years when the economy may not ever get going: please raise your hands. There wasn’t enough money in 77 either.

The lesson here is focus on what you have.

Addendum. Yes I know PSU football was a machine that could not be derailed but unfortunately PSU hoops of today is stuck in the mud… But what if we were not stuck in the mud? How would a good Bball Joepa take this?

$30-$50 million dollars is about to be spent on a winter sport other than PSU hoops. (there is not another $30 to $50 million dollars coming to State College for a while).

How could you not be insulted. The football folks would have been in 1977…


#2

I found this all to be very confusing… not sure if it’s your writing, the parallels you attempted to draw, or just your conclusion…

But… why should basketball fans care about any of this? And why should we get anything when the program stinks?


#3

The Jordan Center isn’t a basketball arena. It’s a multi-use event complex that happens to host basketball games. It’s commonly booked as it is. Fortunately for the basketball teams, there’s South Gym right there, as not to have the constant concern of court time (to include setup/teardown time).

The new ice arena would be a multi-use ice complex that hosts PSU hockey, youth hockey, rec hockey, ice skating (recreational and competitive), free skates, other rec ice sports and ice shows that could accommodate all that without the constant concern of not only how much time you could have the ice down (to include setup/teardown time) on a weekly basis as to not interfere with all the other money-making events occurring there (including basketball).

All this very much unlike Beaver Stadium which sits idle the majority of the year.


#4

Yup, and if it weren’t for hockey, that’s $30-$50 million dollars that wouldn’t get spent here. I’m thankful that hockey’s around to give that boost to the local economy.


#5

Not to mention, hockey is a much more viable sport now than soccer was in 77 (or now for that matter). It’s actually possible for it to become a revenue generating sport.


#6

I wouldn’t bet money on that though. I mean, you’re right - it’s more viable than soccer then or now… but it’s not exactly a world-beater either.


#7
[quote="mjg, post:5, topic:1290"]Not to mention, hockey is a much more viable sport now than soccer was in 77 (or now for that matter). It's actually possible for it to become a revenue generating sport.[/quote]

I wouldn’t bet money on that though. I mean, you’re right - it’s more viable than soccer then or now… but it’s not exactly a world-beater either.

Of course. But I’ve been to some college hockey games in New York. They were sold out. If PSU puts a competitive product on the ice, I could see a 6,000 seat arena selling out regularly. Not sure that would mean a profit. I don’t know how it works getting other schools to come play us - same as hoops? You pay them? I guess home & home setups could work - even within the same season. Hopefully we can debate this again with actual figures in a few years.


#8

I definitely wouldn’t mind seeing hockey get bigger, but I just don’t know that I’d have the time or interest to support it at the college level anytime in the near future.

I love the NHL playoffs, but even the regular season is hard for me to follow given all the other sports I follow during it’s season. I can’t see making the time to watch college hockey on top of all that, at least not before I made more time for regular season pro hockey.

Too many sports. :\


#9

I got so overheated on this I stepped away from the board for a month. I forgot to take this down. But since its up I will comment

The counter example I gave was the best I could come up with. I knew it had enough flaws to drive a truck through but sometimes you don’t have much to work with. Sorry if it did not lend it self to outline form. I just think this is a major mistake.

I am willing to support a hockey team at PSU. I was all for this awhile ago. But to spend twice as much money for about the same results. The BJC is not a “hot” arena (Hot=Booked 200 days a year). Nevertheless plenty of “hot” arenas accommodate both sports. SO I don’t see the issue there.

Would it not play better PR wise if the press release headline said:

$85 Million gift for PSU: 1/2 of Donation earmarked for discount text books and 1/2 for a new Practice/Recreation Ice complex built to Lasch standards along with a new ice sheet for the BJC."

???

I am still overheated but seriously how many of you know someone who bought a textbook with a credit card? How much interest will they pay before they even get their first job. (No hardship deferment with the plastic)


#10

Wow, Charnold…A lot of issues!
I agree Hoops is getting short changed at PSU…but what else is new. It will take a very strong personality to change the "culture."
I can’t see hockey being a bad thing at PSU…unless in the future the brass keeps raising STEP prices to pay for hockey
BUT, hopefully hockey can in time be a big “money maker” (attendence, TV money, etc)
The “credit” issues for college students is a VERY serious problem in our society. Many college presidents (boards) seem to want to keep building and building and keep growing …instead of providing a quality degree for a fair price.
Of course, your counter example was fiction…BUT, I would like to see a real soccer boom (dreaming)
Has anyone followed the soccer boom at Akron University?

http://www.gozips.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=47176&SPID=4334&DB_OEM_ID=10800&ATCLID=204996029

The BJC “is what it is.” I don’t see a change.

Charnold…Good post(s)…don’t stay away so long in the future.


#11
[quote="mjg, post:5, topic:1290"]Not to mention, hockey is a much more viable sport now than soccer was in 77 (or now for that matter). It's actually possible for it to become a revenue generating sport.[/quote]

I wouldn’t bet money on that though. I mean, you’re right - it’s more viable than soccer then or now… but it’s not exactly a world-beater either.

Of course. But I’ve been to some college hockey games in New York. They were sold out. If PSU puts a competitive product on the ice, I could see a 6,000 seat arena selling out regularly. Not sure that would mean a profit. I don’t know how it works getting other schools to come play us - same as hoops? You pay them? I guess home & home setups could work - even within the same season. Hopefully we can debate this again with actual figures in a few years.

State College is an unusual animal in that they really don’t have the “townee” population to support a lot of sports that other schools do.
I don’t know what hockey tickets would go for, but they are usually pretty expensive.


#12
[quote="mjg, post:5, topic:1290"]Not to mention, hockey is a much more viable sport now than soccer was in 77 (or now for that matter). It's actually possible for it to become a revenue generating sport.[/quote]

I wouldn’t bet money on that though. I mean, you’re right - it’s more viable than soccer then or now… but it’s not exactly a world-beater either.

Of course. But I’ve been to some college hockey games in New York. They were sold out. If PSU puts a competitive product on the ice, I could see a 6,000 seat arena selling out regularly. Not sure that would mean a profit. I don’t know how it works getting other schools to come play us - same as hoops? You pay them? I guess home & home setups could work - even within the same season. Hopefully we can debate this again with actual figures in a few years.

State College is an unusual animal in that they really don’t have the “townee” population to support a lot of sports that other schools do.
I don’t know what hockey tickets would go for, but they are usually pretty expensive.

I’m thinking the games I’ve been to cost under $20 per ticket. I’ll see if I have any stubs lying around somewhere.

Charnold, should my NLC donation each year get split in half too? If I want to support the football team (or any other athletic team) I need to double my donation to give discounted books to students? Sorry, I’m not at all seeing your point. It’s my money, I can spend it or donate it to whatever cause I choose. Besides, how do you know Mr. and Mrs. Pegula didn’t give another massive donation for academics? Maybe they wanted that part to remain anonymous.


#13
[quote="mjg, post:5, topic:1290"]Not to mention, hockey is a much more viable sport now than soccer was in 77 (or now for that matter). It's actually possible for it to become a revenue generating sport.[/quote]

I wouldn’t bet money on that though. I mean, you’re right - it’s more viable than soccer then or now… but it’s not exactly a world-beater either.

Of course. But I’ve been to some college hockey games in New York. They were sold out. If PSU puts a competitive product on the ice, I could see a 6,000 seat arena selling out regularly. Not sure that would mean a profit. I don’t know how it works getting other schools to come play us - same as hoops? You pay them? I guess home & home setups could work - even within the same season. Hopefully we can debate this again with actual figures in a few years.

State College is an unusual animal in that they really don’t have the “townee” population to support a lot of sports that other schools do.
I don’t know what hockey tickets would go for, but they are usually pretty expensive.

I’m thinking the games I’ve been to cost under $20 per ticket. I’ll see if I have any stubs lying around somewhere.

Charnold, should my NLC donation each year get split in half too? If I want to support the football team (or any other athletic team) I need to double my donation to give discounted books to students? Sorry, I’m not at all seeing your point. It’s my money, I can spend it or donate it to whatever cause I choose. Besides, how do you know Mr. and Mrs. Pegula didn’t give another massive donation for academics? Maybe they wanted that part to remain anonymous.

The Pegula’s have given money to both the university and Penn State sports in the past.

I simply find it incredible that someone can find fault with an individual who wants to give almost $100 million to the university.


#14

[quote=“UncleLar, post:13, topic:1290”]The Pegula’s have given money to both the university and Penn State sports in the past.

I simply find it incredible that someone can find fault with an individual who wants to give almost $100 million to the university.[/quote]

Go read the comments to the article about it on philly.com. Simply amazing.


#15
[quote="UncleLar, post:13, topic:1290"]The Pegula's have given money to both the university and Penn State sports in the past.

I simply find it incredible that someone can find fault with an individual who wants to give almost $100 million to the university.[/quote]

Go read the comments to the article about it on philly.com. Simply amazing.

Here is a quote from the article. Notice he says he’s not done giving and that he has given money to other areas of the University.

The size of the gift for athletics drew some online criticism from people who questioned Pegula's priorities when Penn State, like most state universities, continues to raise tuition.

Pegula indicated that more gifts to the university were ahead, and said he donated to charities, which he would not specify. He defended his decision on the basis of the 36 scholarships and the economic boom for the university community.

“I’m sending more kids to college,” said Pegula, 59, who lives in Boca Raton, Fla. "The game of hockey is a character builder. It’ll bring more business to this region.

“Why hockey? Why not something else? The old standard answer is because I wanted to. But this isn’t the end of my giving. We’ll be doing other things, give to the university or whatever. You can’t do everything at once.”

He added: “I’m dumping $88 million into the university that’s going to create jobs for a couple years.”