How much more do you want?


#1

It is disheartening to read that some people are coming down on Talor Battle after this loss.

Just take a minute to check out this site that tracks NCAA stats and see just how important he is to this team and what an impact he has.

I hope that those people who have suggested he didn’t do enough, or that missing free throws somehow cost this team the game, reflect on their comments and recognize that they are likely a result from the disappointment of a close loss in a game the team could have won.


#2

[quote=“Captain Cranky, post:1, topic:483”]It is disheartening to read that some people are coming down on Talor Battle after this loss.

Just take a minute to check out this site that tracks NCAA stats and see just how important he is to this team and what an impact he has.

I hope that those people who have suggested he didn’t do enough, or that missing free throws somehow cost this team the game, reflect on their comments and recognize that they are likely a result from the disappointment of a close loss in a game the team could have won.[/quote]

They’re idiots, Cranky, but it’s usually just a few. Pay no heed. Not sure how long you’ve been following the team, but Talor has been in HS and college, a 70% FT shooter. He looked much better this year, but had a poor night. His technique looked bad,which seems to happen. Like you, most knowledgeable fans realize he does more than enough, and would like to see some help from other players. He’s not perfect, just great.


#3

Agree on all fronts. That being said it doesnt hurt to hit a few more free ones. But I’ve watched enough bball to know you win nand lose as a team. Without Talor we wont have had a shot


#4
[quote="Captain Cranky, post:1, topic:483"]It is disheartening to read that some people are coming down on Talor Battle after this loss.

Just take a minute to check out this site that tracks NCAA stats and see just how important he is to this team and what an impact he has.

I hope that those people who have suggested he didn’t do enough, or that missing free throws somehow cost this team the game, reflect on their comments and recognize that they are likely a result from the disappointment of a close loss in a game the team could have won.[/quote]

They’re idiots, Cranky, but it’s usually just a few. Pay no heed. Not sure how long you’ve been following the team, but Talor has been in HS and college, a 70% FT shooter. He looked much better this year, but had a poor night. His technique looked bad,which seems to happen. Like you, most knowledgeable fans realize he does more than enough, and would like to see some help from other players. He’s not perfect, just great.


On this stats site I noticed this:

Talor Battle is

17th in minutes/game
13th in % of minutes/game
32nd in FG made
11th in FG attempted
33rd in 3 point FG attempted
44th in FT made
35th in FT attempted
23rd in points scored
47th in points/game
56th in defensive rebounds Shocked
and 108th in defensive rebounds/game

and his offensive rating (from 110.9 to 104.0), 3 point FG% (from 33.9 to 28.4) and effective FG% (from 49.4 to 46.6) have both dipped against last seasons stats; as well as his assists/game (from 4.974 to 3.2).

He is doing more than can be expected and because of it, his numbers have dropped.


#5

Listening to post game on the way home from the BJC, I thought I heard that Talor had been ill and was in fact quarantined on Friday. In the second half he asked to come out for a breather. This is not an excuse for poor foul shooting but his overall effort was phenomenal last night. While he scored half of the team’s points, I would not be surprised if he put the blame on himself for the loss.


#6

It’s not Battle that I want more from. The rest of the guys is who I want more from. Holy cow…somebody step-up!!!


#7
[quote="Captain Cranky, post:1, topic:483"]It is disheartening to read that some people are coming down on Talor Battle after this loss.

Just take a minute to check out this site that tracks NCAA stats and see just how important he is to this team and what an impact he has.

I hope that those people who have suggested he didn’t do enough, or that missing free throws somehow cost this team the game, reflect on their comments and recognize that they are likely a result from the disappointment of a close loss in a game the team could have won.[/quote]

They’re idiots, Cranky, but it’s usually just a few. Pay no heed. Not sure how long you’ve been following the team, but Talor has been in HS and college, a 70% FT shooter. He looked much better this year, but had a poor night. His technique looked bad,which seems to happen. Like you, most knowledgeable fans realize he does more than enough, and would like to see some help from other players. He’s not perfect, just great.


On this stats site I noticed this:

Talor Battle is

17th in minutes/game
13th in % of minutes/game
32nd in FG made
11th in FG attempted
33rd in 3 point FG attempted
44th in FT made
35th in FT attempted
23rd in points scored
47th in points/game
56th in defensive rebounds Shocked
and 108th in defensive rebounds/game

and his offensive rating (from 110.9 to 104.0), 3 point FG% (from 33.9 to 28.4) and effective FG% (from 49.4 to 46.6) have both dipped against last seasons stats; as well as his assists/game (from 4.974 to 3.2).

He is doing more than can be expected and because of it, his numbers have dropped.

Well of course his assists are going to be down, you can’t pass the ball to yourself!


#8
[quote="Captain Cranky, post:1, topic:483"]It is disheartening to read that some people are coming down on Talor Battle after this loss.

Just take a minute to check out this site that tracks NCAA stats and see just how important he is to this team and what an impact he has.

I hope that those people who have suggested he didn’t do enough, or that missing free throws somehow cost this team the game, reflect on their comments and recognize that they are likely a result from the disappointment of a close loss in a game the team could have won.[/quote]

They’re idiots, Cranky, but it’s usually just a few. Pay no heed. Not sure how long you’ve been following the team, but Talor has been in HS and college, a 70% FT shooter. He looked much better this year, but had a poor night. His technique looked bad,which seems to happen. Like you, most knowledgeable fans realize he does more than enough, and would like to see some help from other players. He’s not perfect, just great.


On this stats site I noticed this:

Talor Battle is

17th in minutes/game
13th in % of minutes/game
32nd in FG made
11th in FG attempted
33rd in 3 point FG attempted
44th in FT made
35th in FT attempted
23rd in points scored
47th in points/game
56th in defensive rebounds Shocked
and 108th in defensive rebounds/game

and his offensive rating (from 110.9 to 104.0), 3 point FG% (from 33.9 to 28.4) and effective FG% (from 49.4 to 46.6) have both dipped against last seasons stats; as well as his assists/game (from 4.974 to 3.2).

He is doing more than can be expected and because of it, his numbers have dropped.

I doubt that there is enough data to prove this, or that there are not other explanations (flu, etc.).

Sociological insight: The griping on this board (and others) is always more informative about the gripers than the gripees.

Psychological insight: Anyone see “The U” last night? The 1987 Fiesta Bowl, in our pantheon as a shining example of cunning and guile overcoming brute force, is seen by the other side as a bit of bad luck caused by “us turning the ball over.” Needless to say, there was no mention of Jerry Sandusky’s disguised coverages. Even Miami’s Athletic Director charcaterized it as just a “one bad game against Penn State.”

Like last year, Penn State fans are overreacting to the negatives.

Talor Battle proved his mettle last night, and what makes him special. Any aspersions here would be looked at by anyone objective as slightly deranged.


#9

It is if he had an upper respiratory condition and was completely gassed. The kid is a fighter but if you can’t breathe it makes it really tough.


#10

Every coach or player will tell you no one ever plays a perfect game. The better you are, the higher the expectations on you; and, the more likely it is that the falling short will be on finer points.

I wish free throw shooting was what we had to complain about on some of the other players. Poor shooting and dumb fouls, sheesh! Unfortunately, shooting is such that the harder you have to try, the less likely you are to be successful. The guys that can shoot well will, sooner or later.


#11

Gman - you are correct. Steve Jones mentioned it a couple times during the radio broadcast. Steve also said that Talor had two exams on Thursday, so he may not have had much in the tank towards the end of the game. Dick Jerardi said that often times adrenaline can carry you throughout the ups and downs of the game, but sooner or later fatigue can catch up with you.

Lots of the time, fatigue shows up in your shots (including foul shots) being short.

Oh, yeah. Talor rolled his ankle in the first half and came back strong after being retaped.

Despite all that, he played a great game and almost got us to OT.

Talor is a gamer and a winner - don’t know that you can give a kid any higher compliment.


#12

Here is all that you need to know on Talor from today’s CDT

Battle added nine rebounds and three assists in 36 turnover-free minutes but was 3-of-10 from the free-throw line.

“I missed seven free throws,” he said. “We lost by two points. I feel like I let my team down.”

In a way this bothers me. This kid scored 32 last night and he feels like he didn’t do enough. The rest of the guys need to see that Talor is putting a lot of pressure on himself and they need to pick up the slack.


#13

[quote=“jjepsu92, post:12, topic:483”]Here is all that you need to know on Talor from today’s CDT

Battle added nine rebounds and three assists in 36 turnover-free minutes but was 3-of-10 from the free-throw line.

“I missed seven free throws,” he said. “We lost by two points. I feel like I let my team down.”

In a way this bothers me. This kid scored 32 last night and he feels like he didn’t do enough. The rest of the guys need to see that Talor is putting a lot of pressure on himself and they need to pick up the slack.[/quote]

Agree 100%. 32 points? 9 rebounds? 0 turnovers? and he feels he let his team down? All the while there are people who post here who feel the need to question his FT shooting and question why we shouldnt criticize him? It disgusts me! >:(


#14

Guys sometimes have bad FT shooting nights. Even the best have bad nights. I saw someone that was an 88% FT shooter (Gilbert Arenas?) go 2-6 and miss two important shots at the end of a tight game. It happens. You have to look at the entire body of work. He played his butt off. And to me that’s the most important measure. Sometimes shots go in sometimes they don’t. Effort is what you can control. And I’ve never seen anything less than 100% from Talor. So I want him on my team every night.


#15

Because of the weather, I didn’t get back to Jersey from the game until late yesterday, and I just had a chance to read the board.

I think you guys are over-reacting big-time to the criticisms of Talor’s free throw shooting. Talor played a GREAT game Saturday. But he was 3 for 10 from the line, and that is bad. Reading the IGT, it looked to me like a few people have decided that our bigs are our problem and they’re blaming everything on them (including the poor shooting of our guards ??? ).

This is a message board, where we like to discuss the good & bad about our team. But just because Talor is the star and carries our team - it has become blasphemy to point out the few things he does poorly? I think he’d be the 1st one to admit that his free throw shooting was poor, and I’m guessing that he (wrongly) blames himself for the loss.

Personally, I welcome seeing different viewpoints about the team even when I don’t agree with all of them. Quite often, the rest of you guys point out stuff that I’ve missed and that’s what makes it fun to read. I hope we never get to the point where we aren’t allowed to honestly critique the team (though from the sounds of things maybe we’ve already gotten there).


#16

[quote=“TomF, post:15, topic:483”]Because of the weather, I didn’t get back to Jersey from the game until late yesterday, and I just had a chance to read the board.

I think you guys are over-reacting big-time to the criticisms of Talor’s free throw shooting. Talor played a GREAT game Saturday. But he was 3 for 10 from the line, and that is bad. Reading the IGT, it looked to me like a few people have decided that our bigs are our problem and they’re blaming everything on them (including the poor shooting of our guards ??? ).

This is a message board, where we like to discuss the good & bad about our team. But just because Talor is the star and carries our team - it has become blasphemy to point out the few things he does poorly? I think he’d be the 1st one to admit that his free throw shooting was poor, and I’m guessing that he (wrongly) blames himself for the loss.

Personally, I welcome seeing different viewpoints about the team even when I don’t agree with all of them. Quite often, the rest of you guys point out stuff that I’ve missed and that’s what makes it fun to read. I hope we never get to the point where we aren’t allowed to honestly critique the team (though from the sounds of things maybe we’ve already gotten there).[/quote]

That’s the problem I have with this type of “discussion”. “Blaming” an individual for a loss based on certain parts of their game that didn’t go well is unfair. The game is played at both ends of the floor. There is a reason Ozzie Smith is a hall of famer with a lifetime .230 batting average (not sure the exact average).


#17
Because of the weather, I didn't get back to Jersey from the game until late yesterday, and I just had a chance to read the board.

I think you guys are over-reacting big-time to the criticisms of Talor’s free throw shooting. Talor played a GREAT game Saturday. But he was 3 for 10 from the line, and that is bad. Reading the IGT, it looked to me like a few people have decided that our bigs are our problem and they’re blaming everything on them (including the poor shooting of our guards ??? ).

This is a message board, where we like to discuss the good & bad about our team. But just because Talor is the star and carries our team - it has become blasphemy to point out the few things he does poorly? I think he’d be the 1st one to admit that his free throw shooting was poor, and I’m guessing that he (wrongly) blames himself for the loss.

Personally, I welcome seeing different viewpoints about the team even when I don’t agree with all of them. Quite often, the rest of you guys point out stuff that I’ve missed and that’s what makes it fun to read. I hope we never get to the point where we aren’t allowed to honestly critique the team (though from the sounds of things maybe we’ve already gotten there).

That’s the problem I have with this type of “discussion”. “Blaming” an individual for a loss based on certain parts of their game that didn’t go well is unfair. The game is played at both ends of the floor. There is a reason Ozzie Smith is a hall of famer with a lifetime .230 batting average (not sure the exact average).

Its a lot higher than .230. Its .262. And don’t forget, he didn’t play in the era of the .300 hitting slugger shortstop. Sure he is known for his glve, but as shortstops go he was not an awful offensive player for his era.


#18
[quote="TomF, post:15, topic:483"]Because of the weather, I didn't get back to Jersey from the game until late yesterday, and I just had a chance to read the board.

I think you guys are over-reacting big-time to the criticisms of Talor’s free throw shooting. Talor played a GREAT game Saturday. But he was 3 for 10 from the line, and that is bad. Reading the IGT, it looked to me like a few people have decided that our bigs are our problem and they’re blaming everything on them (including the poor shooting of our guards ??? ).

This is a message board, where we like to discuss the good & bad about our team. But just because Talor is the star and carries our team - it has become blasphemy to point out the few things he does poorly? I think he’d be the 1st one to admit that his free throw shooting was poor, and I’m guessing that he (wrongly) blames himself for the loss.

Personally, I welcome seeing different viewpoints about the team even when I don’t agree with all of them. Quite often, the rest of you guys point out stuff that I’ve missed and that’s what makes it fun to read. I hope we never get to the point where we aren’t allowed to honestly critique the team (though from the sounds of things maybe we’ve already gotten there).[/quote]

That’s the problem I have with this type of “discussion”. “Blaming” an individual for a loss based on certain parts of their game that didn’t go well is unfair. The game is played at both ends of the floor. There is a reason Ozzie Smith is a hall of famer with a lifetime .230 batting average (not sure the exact average).

Its a lot higher than .230. Its .262. And don’t forget, he didn’t play in the era of the .300 hitting slugger shortstop. Sure he is known for his glve, but as shortstops go he was not an awful offensive player for his era.

Right, but my purpose was to point out that there is more to a game than just one area. Ozzie was great with the glove – probably the best ever. His offense was not great, light hitter, no power. But he stole bases, especially early in his career. And he did what he needed to do – bunt, hit behind a runner, etc. – the little things that most don’t notice.


#19

[quote=“TomF, post:15, topic:483”]Because of the weather, I didn’t get back to Jersey from the game until late yesterday, and I just had a chance to read the board.

I think you guys are over-reacting big-time to the criticisms of Talor’s free throw shooting. Talor played a GREAT game Saturday. But he was 3 for 10 from the line, and that is bad. Reading the IGT, it looked to me like a few people have decided that our bigs are our problem and they’re blaming everything on them (including the poor shooting of our guards ??? ).

This is a message board, where we like to discuss the good & bad about our team. But just because Talor is the star and carries our team - it has become blasphemy to point out the few things he does poorly? I think he’d be the 1st one to admit that his free throw shooting was poor, and I’m guessing that he (wrongly) blames himself for the loss.

Personally, I welcome seeing different viewpoints about the team even when I don’t agree with all of them. Quite often, the rest of you guys point out stuff that I’ve missed and that’s what makes it fun to read. I hope we never get to the point where we aren’t allowed to honestly critique the team (though from the sounds of things maybe we’ve already gotten there).[/quote]

You mention you didn’t see the game.

When I watch a game, I try to figure out what needs to be done to improve the situation. What we can control. So, if the opponent is fast breaking, do something about it, like pressuring the rebounder so he can’t turn for the outlet pass. If they’re crashing the offensive boards, do something to stop it, like fast breaking, so they play more defensively. Vs. VT, many times, 3 or 4 at least, the shot clock went off for PSU, erroneously every time I think, but still, it was often deep into the shot clock before a shot would go off. This mostly occurred after whipping the ball around the perimeter, left, right, left, right, ad nauseum. Guys, often Talor, would get it back with 2 to 4 seconds left, leading to a crumby shot. So yes, the team shot badly, but in viewing, I didn’t see that as the issue. I saw going “east-west” rather than “north-south” as the issue. If the only solution to that just becomes Talor driving, I have a problem with that, and IMO, you’re going to lose a lot of ballgames leaving it to one guy, the shortest guy on the team, to score in the paint. That could’ve been changed DURING THE GAME, by establishing some kind of post presence, as Andrew a couple times early. The bad FT shooting is something you work on in practice. Nothing can be done about it during the game. Sure they pissed me off, but I’m looking for adjustments to change the flow of the game, and when they’re not made, I see that as a primary cause for the loss, or any loss. Unfortunately, this is happening against the tougher teams.

Talor can create his own shot in multiple ways. The other guys can’t all do that. I see inside play as being the best solution to improving shooting for many guys on the team. We’re seeing “chuck and duck”, way too often. Kalin Lucas has 45 FTA’s out of a team 222(20%); Battle has 65/190(34%). If Battle’s 65 FTA’s represented 20% of PSU’s, the team would have shot 325 FTA’s. If he only had 45 FTA’s like Lucas, but that was 34% of the team’s, PSU would have shot 132, 90 less than MSU, both teams playing 10 games. After Lucas, MSU’s FTA shooters, 2,3,4 and 6 are all bigs, all with more than 23 FTA’s. Only DJ of our bigs has more than 20(31), and Frazier’s next with 28. Revealing, don’t you think? This is an every game issue. How do you fix it? Establish a post presence. Leads to easier shots, more FTA’s by more players, and opens the arc for shooters like Chris Babb.


#20
And I've never seen anything less than 100% from Talor.

A lot of people are starting to think that he doesn’t always play with the same aggressiveness in the less meaningful games - the ones not nationally televised and what not. But maybe that’s what you meant by you haven’t “seen” it happen. ;D