Discussion Forum



And golf is supposed to be a gentlemen’s game. Interesting stories there.


That’s what makes Ryder cup so interesting. It’s an atmosphere and set-up like no other.

Similar to Davis Cup in tennis where cheering the home team is encouraged. I’m kind of bummed that they decided to scrap the old format in favor of a “Laver cup” style one-weekend all in one place kind of event. There were some memorable Davis cup matches (like Mardy Fish playing in a converted bull ring in Bogota, Columbia) that will never happen again. The Stars will play more now, but those memorable home crowds are now history.



Very interesting! :golf:

Major Change: Ball Played from the Putting Green Hits Unattended Flagstick in Hole


Related story

I went to a Dave Pelz short game school probably 20 years ago. At the time Pelz said to leave the pin in when chipping from just off the green. He said his scientific studies had shown that hitting the pin was more likely to help than hinder. Apparently, DeChambeau has come to the same conclusion so he’ll extend the practice to its logical conclusion - i.e. putt with the pin in. I’m probably going to do the same whenever I get the chance to without pissing off my playing partners.


This makes sense since hitting the pin will definitely slow down your ball when it would otherwise fly over the cup and roll way past the hole. I’ll leave the flag in for long putts, but probably nothing under 8 feet of so, depending how i’m feeling on a given day. The shorter the putt, the more likely hitting the pin will hinder your putt.


It’s not about how far the ball ends up from the hole, it’s whether it goes in the cup or not.

Basically, his work says leave it in at any distance.


Okay. I’ll have to disagree with this. The pin could keep a three footer from going in the cup but not likely save you from a three putt from that distance. It can also leave a 30 footer two free from the cup instead of 8 feet past thus aiding a two putt vs. a three putt. Thus, I’ll remove the pin once i’m close enough that I no longer fear a three putt from that spot. Maybe playing by the new rule will change my thoughts. But for now, I’ll go with my gut.


Another science denier. :frowning_face:

Sabermetrics changed baseball. APBRmetrics is changing basketball. Golf might be the next to fall. Strokes gained has become widely accepted and it’s a first step. While Pelz laid the groundwork bringing the scientific method to golf and Mark Broadie (see the book “Every Shot Counts”) introduced Big Data to golf, Brian DeChambeau might be the guy that gets other players and the public to embrace some of these new ideas.

As has been proven in other sports, when the data goes against your gut feel, more often than not, it’s the data that’s right.

Pelz’s scientific approach showed that the ball dropped in the hall more often with the pin in than it does with the pin out, no matter what the distance was and no matter what your gut says.

Of course, should a lot of people embrace this approach, the rule might be changed right back. After all, it was implemented to speed up play and if people keep putting the pin in and pulling it out, that’s going to have the exact opposite effect.


Yeah, yeah. His test results include a lot of variables, except the one about golf being more inside your head than outside your head. Once I’ve played enough rounds, I may change my mind. But a point I didn’t make earlier, I hate seeing the flag in the hole when I’m close (even when chipping). The line the flag pole makes with my own line seems to screw me up (I wear glasses and peripheral vision is goofy enough). When I’m far enough away, it’s not the same distraction.

And I can’t stand when my friends want to tend the flag on a close putt. I’m always barking at them to get the flag away from the hole. I only want it tended if I can’t otherwise see the hole from my stance.


I’ll probably leave the pin in for my first two putts but take it out for the last two.


THIS is what will speed up play. To walk over and remove the pin for a long putt can save 30-60 seconds a whole, time 18 holes, that’s an entire hole’s worth if time saved on the course.

I can see the PGA dictating a “no pin on a putt” rule, but for us league golfers, leaving the pin in can help keep play moving.


I played a spur of the moment round of golf yesterday by myself and I never took the flag out even once.


First, I think you are overestimating the time that it would take to remove the pin. Secondly, unless you never take the pin out, some time is going to be spent removing it later. That will eat into your supposed savings. Now if you can get everyone in the foursome leaving the pin in all the time, then we’re talking potential significant savings.


Don’t forget the time spent around the greens entering the elapsed times into Google sheets for post-round analysis!


You haven’t seen me putt, it could easily be double that time that the pin is out.


Usually when playing in a group somebody pulls the flag while somebody else is getting ready to putt. And the pin is picked up and being held while the last guy finishes up, being put back in the hole right as the last putter is finished. I’m not sure how much time you’re saving there.

Playing by yourself? Sure, I can see some time saved there. But solo players on the course are really not the ones slowing down play, I used to be able to walk 18 holes in 2 hours if the course was empty.


This is cool, neat idea.


Something to keep you busy if you are watching The Match tomorrow.


Tiger sure looks like he had a few drinks in that picture!