Excited about this season


#1

Like many I suppose, I can’t wait for the season to start. I notice on the fall workouts thread, there are zero replies, but 225 views, all viewers scrounging for some info yet to come.

In looking at past piece in the Collegian, I gleaned this about Frazier…

[i]Returning forward D.J. Jackson said Frazier has enough talent to be a breakout player for the Lions in his freshman season.

“He’s a highlight waiting to happen,” Jackson said. “Once he puts it all together he’s gonna be a special player.”

Frazier insists he is a true point guard but would be open to whatever way the coaching staff wants to utilize him.

With incumbent floor general Talor Battle having competed across the globe for Team USA in the World University Games after averaging 37.4 minutes per game for Penn State last season, Frazier will likely be counted on for relief from the early going.

“Talor’s a great guy and a great player and just a tremendous person,” Frazier said. " … But definitely I’m here for him. I’m here to learn tips from him, learn just like what he went through as a freshman."

And for Battle and the rest of his teammates, Frazier has a warning: when he comes through the lane, get out of his way.

Otherwise they may find themselves victims of yet another YouTube hit.[/i]

When a teammate like DJ is saying this, I think you can expect close to immediate impact from Tim, despite his humility. IMO, with Battle and Babb in the 3 guard offense, this will be wicked combo for opponents to stop. I’d expect Tim, like Talor, to get fouled a lot in the lane, and Babb will be a regular recipient of kickouts for those bombs he’s shown he can make, and maybe with Talor at the arc, Babb drives the lane in mismatches, as he’s got decent speed, great size for a guard, and good ups. Big 10 opponents playing man defense will have their hands full with this trio. Zone defenses won’t like it either with their quickness and ability to shoot 3’s. Now if the team can just develop some inside points to keep defenses really honest…

And look at this from the PSU roster site…Let’s get ready to rummmble. He equals or exceeds the NBA combine’s best? WOW! I’m predicting 1 dunk per game. :wink:

Tremendously quick and athletic, Frazier combines baseline-to-baseline speed and instinctual court vision with explosiveness to the rim and the ability to rise and dunk over defenders. Tabbed as the top senior recruit out of the state of Texas in 2009, Frazier will be looked toward to help fill the void left by the graduation of ultra-quick, sharpshooter Stanley Pringle and could team with Talor Battle to form possibly the fastest back court in the Big Ten. He posted a team-high 34-inch vertical and 10.3 second lane agility time in pre-season workouts, equalling the 2009 NBA Combine best in vertical jump and bettering the Combine’s best lane agility time of 10. 44. Frazier’s athleticism, on the ball defensive skills and slick passing will give him a chance to earn playing time quickly and he could be an impact player in his first season in Blue and White.


#2

Got a similar report in a conversation with the AD, said that I will really enjoy watching hi(Frazier) this year. Iam ready for the season to start, right now.


#3

kid, I’m really excited for the season to get started as well, and really wish there were more news coming out. We need to get some insiders on this board! No offense, Lar :wink:

Luckily for me, I’ll get to see ED and a couple players in a week!


#4

[quote=“blue2blue, post:3, topic:55”]kid, I’m really excited for the season to get started as well, and really wish there were more news coming out. We need to get some insiders on this board! No offense, Lar :wink:

Luckily for me, I’ll get to see ED and a couple players in a week! [/quote]

In the last two years, there used to be some info. Not sure why this year it seems late. Some suggested the early Canada trip last year made that season earlier. sugarjoz was an insider, used to scrimmage with the team. Not sure he’s still at school. He was in Florence, Italy last semester.

Lar would know the official practice start date.

sugarjoz, are you are around?


#5

5PM on the Friday closest to October 15th - which means Oct 16th this year.


#6

Jamelle kept mentioning Billy Oliver as the guy that can do it all when he was going from dinner to dinner with the hoops club earlier. I hear that Billy is not a guy with freak athleticism, but is really a “glue” guy (the kind of guy that will do all of the little things that are needed for a team to be successful). I’m really excited to see what this guy can bring to the table after a year off.

Also, someone told me the other day that Tim Frazier is going to WOW everyone this season. Supposedly the guy is looking great and is getting primed to be a player this season.


#7

[quote=“bem5047, post:6, topic:55”]Jamelle kept mentioning Billy Oliver as the guy that can do it all when he was going from dinner to dinner with the hoops club earlier. I hear that Billy is not a guy with freak athleticism, but is really a “glue” guy (the kind of guy that will do all of the little things that are needed for a team to be successful). I’m really excited to see what this guy can bring to the table after a year off.

Also, someone told me the other day that Tim Frazier is going to WOW everyone this season. Supposedly the guy is looking great and is getting primed to be a player this season.[/quote]

Has anyone heard how well Frazier’s handle is translating to this level of play? I think ball handling with speed will be what we miss most from Stanley graduating. Chris and Talor should be able to pick up the three point shooting slack but we’ll need someone to break presses which was primarily Stan’s job.


#8
[quote="bem5047, post:6, topic:55"]Jamelle kept mentioning Billy Oliver as the guy that can do it all when he was going from dinner to dinner with the hoops club earlier. I hear that Billy is not a guy with freak athleticism, but is really a "glue" guy (the kind of guy that will do all of the little things that are needed for a team to be successful). I'm really excited to see what this guy can bring to the table after a year off.

Also, someone told me the other day that Tim Frazier is going to WOW everyone this season. Supposedly the guy is looking great and is getting primed to be a player this season.[/quote]

Has anyone heard how Frazier’s well Frazier’s handle is translating to this level of play? I think ball handling with speed will be what we miss most from Stanley graduating. Chris and Talor should be able to pick up the three point shooting slack but we’ll need someone to break presses which was primarily Stan’s job.

I don’t really agree on Stanley’s ballhandling with speed. His shooting was phenomenal, far exceeding what I expected, and his speed was awesome, but he had a tendency, less in his second year, to dribble out of control, and I think this was due to his dribbling with his head down, especially in traffic. Guys that dribble with their head up can often take their time as they see the floor well, and not only feel the pressure but see it. Look at the Talor play at the end of the Illinois game. It’s almost like he’s not even hurrying, but he beats 4 guys, while dribbling with his left hand. Steve Nash is a perfect example of this. He’s by no means the quickest guard, yet playing with his head up and having a great handle lets him play at the speed he wants. Not sure how good Tim is, but he certainly finishes in the lane in traffic, and to do this, I think you need to see the floor well, and what your options are when you’re in the lane vs. some big guys. The eyes have it. :wink:


#9
[quote="bem5047, post:6, topic:55"]Jamelle kept mentioning Billy Oliver as the guy that can do it all when he was going from dinner to dinner with the hoops club earlier. I hear that Billy is not a guy with freak athleticism, but is really a "glue" guy (the kind of guy that will do all of the little things that are needed for a team to be successful). I'm really excited to see what this guy can bring to the table after a year off.

Also, someone told me the other day that Tim Frazier is going to WOW everyone this season. Supposedly the guy is looking great and is getting primed to be a player this season.[/quote]

Has anyone heard how Frazier’s well Frazier’s handle is translating to this level of play? I think ball handling with speed will be what we miss most from Stanley graduating. Chris and Talor should be able to pick up the three point shooting slack but we’ll need someone to break presses which was primarily Stan’s job.

I don’t really agree on Stanley’s ballhandling with speed. His shooting was phenomenal, far exceeding what I expected, and his speed was awesome, but he had a tendency, less in his second year, to dribble out of control, and I think this was due to his dribbling with his head down, especially in traffic. Guys that dribble with their head up can often take their time as they see the floor well, and not only feel the pressure but see it. Look at the Talor play at the end of the Illinois game. It’s almost like he’s not even hurrying, but he beats 4 guys, while dribbling with his left hand. Steve Nash is a perfect example of this. He’s by no means the quickest guard, yet playing with his head up and having a great handle lets him play at the speed he wants. Not sure how good Tim is, but he certainly finishes in the lane in traffic, and to do this, I think you need to see the floor well, and what your options are when you’re in the lane vs. some big guys. The eyes have it. :wink:

Kid I think you have the blinders on with the above statement. I concede that Stanley’s ball handling was underwhelming in his first year with the program but last year he was probably the best handler on the team. You bring up Talor’s play against Illinois and commend his ball handling wall ignoring the turnover on the previous play. Talor’s great don’t get me wrong and I expect to see fewer t/o from him this year but he was not the guy we went to in order to break a press. A lot of that has to do with speed but also handle and from the videos I’ve seen Frazier seems like a guy who could step up in that regard. While I’m thinking of it he’s also been quoted as saying he prides himself on D so that something we should look out for as well.


#10

While I agree with most of what you say, I suspect the main reason Stanley was our go-to guy versus full-court pressure was to “rest” Talor as much as possible.


#11
[quote="bem5047, post:6, topic:55"]Jamelle kept mentioning Billy Oliver as the guy that can do it all when he was going from dinner to dinner with the hoops club earlier. I hear that Billy is not a guy with freak athleticism, but is really a "glue" guy (the kind of guy that will do all of the little things that are needed for a team to be successful). I'm really excited to see what this guy can bring to the table after a year off.

Also, someone told me the other day that Tim Frazier is going to WOW everyone this season. Supposedly the guy is looking great and is getting primed to be a player this season.[/quote]

Has anyone heard how Frazier’s well Frazier’s handle is translating to this level of play? I think ball handling with speed will be what we miss most from Stanley graduating. Chris and Talor should be able to pick up the three point shooting slack but we’ll need someone to break presses which was primarily Stan’s job.

I don’t really agree on Stanley’s ballhandling with speed. His shooting was phenomenal, far exceeding what I expected, and his speed was awesome, but he had a tendency, less in his second year, to dribble out of control, and I think this was due to his dribbling with his head down, especially in traffic. Guys that dribble with their head up can often take their time as they see the floor well, and not only feel the pressure but see it. Look at the Talor play at the end of the Illinois game. It’s almost like he’s not even hurrying, but he beats 4 guys, while dribbling with his left hand. Steve Nash is a perfect example of this. He’s by no means the quickest guard, yet playing with his head up and having a great handle lets him play at the speed he wants. Not sure how good Tim is, but he certainly finishes in the lane in traffic, and to do this, I think you need to see the floor well, and what your options are when you’re in the lane vs. some big guys. The eyes have it. :wink:

Kid I think you have the blinders on with the above statement. I concede that Stanley’s ball handling was underwhelming in his first year with the program but last year he was probably the best handler on the team. You bring up Talor’s play against Illinois and commend his ball handling wall ignoring the turnover on the previous play. Talor’s great don’t get me wrong and I expect to see fewer t/o from him this year but he was not the guy we went to in order to break a press. A lot of that has to do with speed but also handle and from the videos I’ve seen Frazier seems like a guy who could step up in that regard. While I’m thinking of it he’s also been quoted as saying he prides himself on D so that something we should look out for as well.

The best handler on the team would have the best assist/TO ratio. There’s no other way to measure it, other than anecdotally, as both you and I did re the Illinois game. Dribbling in traffic is much more difficult than in the open floor, obviously. Dribbling into the paint for points is dangerous, as you can be stripped by several players, but you often get fouled. Getting FTA’s is, IMO, a good measure of how often one is in the paint. Talor had 210 FTA’s, Stanley 91, Danny 32. It should be clear to most observers that Danny never penetrated for buckets, probably more to do with speed and ups than handle. But Stanley had the speed and the ups. When you’re not driving, or not playing inside, you’re not getting fouled as often. Who doesn’t know this? In FTA’s per minutes played, Stanley was 5th on the team, behind Talor, Jamelle, Andrew and Ott. Front line players receive the ball inside, and get fouled. That’s why points in the paint are so crucial. High percentage shots plus you get your opponents in foul trouble. Guards need a good handle to work their way inside, beat their man, plus usually somebody else who switches. In the IL game, Talor is at least partially covered by 4 opponents. You need a great handle, good ups, good court vision and guts. In one of the videos of the IL game, the announcer says something like, “he goes right into the jaws of the defense”, or something along those lines.

The late great Cus D’Amato, legendary fight trainer, said, “the object of boxing is to not get hit.” Well, in bball, it’s kind of the opposite. Getting FTA’s is huge. Hitting them would be good too. :wink: Posters have harped on Battle’s poor FT percentage, with good reason. But there’s an easy solution. Have the good FT shooters get fouled more often. Tell me how you accomplish that. My bet is Tim will get more FTA’s per minute than Stanley. Cause he drives, or he did in HS, and as he’s not a trey shooter, I’d expect the same. I’ll take wagers on that, but for this year, has to be vs. Stanley’s 1st year on PSU.


#12
[quote="byake, post:9, topic:55"]Kid I think you have the blinders on with the above statement. I concede that Stanley's ball handling was underwhelming in his first year with the program but last year he was probably the best handler on the team. You bring up Talor's play against Illinois and commend his ball handling wall ignoring the turnover on the previous play. Talor's great don't get me wrong and [b]I expect to see fewer t/o from him this year but he was not the guy we went to in order to break a press. [/b] A lot of that has to do with speed but also handle and from the videos I've seen Frazier seems like a guy who could step up in that regard. While I'm thinking of it he's also been quoted as saying he prides himself on D so that something we should look out for as well.[/quote]

While I agree with most of what you say, I suspect the main reason Stanley was our go-to guy versus full-court pressure was to “rest” Talor as much as possible.

I didn’t address the bolded above. Are you kidding? As last year he had a better assist/TO ratio than Scottie Reynolds and Jonny Flynn, why would you expect it to improve? Don’t agree on the press. Yes, he was the second option, and by far the best one. But all teams use multiple players to break a press.


#13

Obviously, Mike Walker is a better ball handler.

Mike Walker Jr Year - 2.8 Sr year - 2.4

Talor’s best year 1.8 (1.4 when he and Mike were on the same team)


#14
[quote="kidcoyote, post:11, topic:55"]The best handler on the team would have the best assist/TO ratio. There's no other way to measure it, other than anecdotally, as both you and I did re the Illinois game.[/quote]

Obviously, Mike Walker is a better ball handler.

Mike Walker Jr Year - 2.8 Sr year - 2.4

Talor’s best year 1.8 (1.4 when he and Mike were on the same team)

Nice try. Good ratio for Mike, but in more minutes per game he had 34 assists to Jeff Brooks’ 28. There is some sort of volume required, don’tcha think? Not sure I remember Mike being pressed full court either. And you might want to check your calculator. Last year Talor had 189 assists, 92 TO’s. Is that 1.8? :wink:


#15

Well his Jr year he had 69 assists and his A/TO ratio was 2.3. He and Luber were pressed full court a lot that year (Luber had 86 assists and a 1.7 A/TO ratio).

My bad on Talor’s ratio last year. It is 2.1. :slight_smile:

It doesn’t really matter to me. I just think it’s ridiculous to say

The best handler on the team would have the best A/TO ratio. There’s no other way to measure it…
. Especially coming from a guy who is a self admitted “eyeball” guy. Stan’s handle was incredible, but like I said, it doesn’t really matter. There is no way to convicnce you that someone might be better at something than Talor.

#16
Nice try. Good ratio for Mike, but in more minutes per game he had 34 assists to Jeff Brooks' 28. There is some sort of volume required, don'tcha think? Not sure I remember Mike being pressed full court either. And you might want to check your calculator. Last year Talor had 189 assists, 92 TO's. Is that 1.8? ;)

Well his Jr year he had 69 assists and his A/TO ratio was 2.3. He and Luber were pressed full court a lot that year (Luber had 86 assists and a 1.7 A/TO ratio).

My bad on Talor’s ratio last year. It is 2.1. :slight_smile:

It doesn’t really matter to me. I just think it’s ridiculous to say

The best handler on the team would have the best A/TO ratio. There’s no other way to measure it…
. Especially coming from a guy who is a self admitted “eyeball” guy. Stan’s handle was incredible, but like I said, it doesn’t really matter. There is no way to convicnce you that someone might be better at something than Talor.

Yes there is. Stephen Curry is a better shooter and player. And more than a few guys on PSU are better foul shooters, and I don’t need to be convinced on that. Though I’d still like him at the line with no time down by 1.

I also looked at the past stats, and Walker’s numbers are great. In ‘05/06, he had 84/30 ratio. Luber had 129/60. But in each case, there’s something else revealing, IMO. In that season Luber had 29 FTA’s in 30mpg, Walker had 22 in 20mpg. I think it’s clear, they’re not mixing it up in the lane. Talor had 210 FTA’s. He made 147. Luber shot 29, made 19! That’s absurdly low. Didn’t you mention in the past that the pg should get the most FTA’s? Well, where are they? So, if they’re not going into traffic, don’t you think they’d have less TO’s? In fact, earlier in this thread, re the IL game last year, it was pointed out that Talor TO’d the ball before that last play, which is correct. Questions: Wasn’t he trying to penetrate when he got picked? Didn’t that also happen late in the GMU game? Didn’t it happen in the MSU game at Lansing? You may argue he shouldn’t be in the lanes, too many TO’s. But look at the FTA’s. IMO, it’s worth it. You have to try to jam it down opponents’ throats, and take them to the hole. Not every time, but often. IMO, it takes handle, vision, guts, and confidence you can make something of it. For some guys, it’s a good gamble, others not. The FTA’s tell the story.

When you go into traffic, you get fouled and you get TO’s. You also get some points, but while I have no numbers on this, I bet the assist/TO ratio once in the paint is not great.


#17

Talor creates a lot in the lane and he (and Stan) provided something previous PSU guards didn’t. Penetration. Luber did a great job protecting the ball and hitting the right guy. He didn’t create a lot of chances for people though because of lack of penetration.

Mike wasn’t as good with the ball with Ben but he had the best vision I’ve seen by a PSU player since DeChellis took over.

It’s a dead time for chatter so, IMO…

Best Ball handler - Stan - it’s like he had a string attached
Best Passer - Luber - he’d always hit the right guy and give it to him in a spot he could catch and do something with it
Most fun Passer - Mike - had eyeballs in the back of head and seemed to see things before they’d happen
Best Creator - Talor - good penetrator and generally good at deciding whether to attack the hoop, give a drop pass to a Post, or to kick out to a shooter. Excellent at drawing fouls too.


#18

[quote=“LPcreation, post:17, topic:55”]Talor creates a lot in the lane and he (and Stan) provided something previous PSU guards didn’t. Penetration. Luber did a great job protecting the ball and hitting the right guy. He didn’t create a lot of chances for people though because of lack of penetration.

Mike wasn’t as good with the ball with Ben but he had the best vision I’ve seen by a PSU player since DeChellis took over.

It’s a dead time for chatter so, IMO…

Best Ball handler - Stan - it’s like he had a string attached
Best Passer - Luber - he’d always hit the right guy and give it to him in a spot he could catch and do something with it
Most fun Passer - Mike - had eyeballs in the back of head and seemed to see things before they’d happen
Best Creator - Talor - good penetrator and generally good at deciding whether to attack the hoop, give a drop pass to a Post, or to kick out to a shooter. Excellent at drawing fouls too.[/quote]

As I haven’t seen Luber, I’d defer to you on him. And I didn’t see Mike enough. Stan did that low dribble in the half court, which is good for crossovers, etc., more lateral than forward, and yes, it’s like he had a string attached, I’d agree. Not a good penetration dribble though. Dribbling higher you can run faster, as you’re not as bent over, but more prone to TO’s. This is why in a break, guys dribble high and run fast. But in beating a guy to the basket, a higher dribble is also necessary. Maybe not as high as a break, but higher than crossover type dribbling, which is low dribbling. You just cannot move forward as fast low dribbling, and you can’t drive as quickly. You just cannot run as fast. Maybe that’s why Stan would beat his man laterally, penetrate just slightly, and pull up from 15’, where Talor more often went to the basket and pick up more fouls.


#19
[quote="LPcreation, post:17, topic:55"]Talor creates a lot in the lane and he (and Stan) provided something previous PSU guards didn't. Penetration. Luber did a great job protecting the ball and hitting the right guy. He didn't create a lot of chances for people though because of lack of penetration.

Mike wasn’t as good with the ball with Ben but he had the best vision I’ve seen by a PSU player since DeChellis took over.

It’s a dead time for chatter so, IMO…

Best Ball handler - Stan - it’s like he had a string attached
Best Passer - Luber - he’d always hit the right guy and give it to him in a spot he could catch and do something with it
Most fun Passer - Mike - had eyeballs in the back of head and seemed to see things before they’d happen
Best Creator - Talor - good penetrator and generally good at deciding whether to attack the hoop, give a drop pass to a Post, or to kick out to a shooter. Excellent at drawing fouls too.[/quote]

As I haven’t seen Luber, I’d defer to you on him. And I didn’t see Mike enough. Stan did that low dribble in the half court, which is good for crossovers, etc., more lateral than forward, and yes, it’s like he had a string attached, I’d agree. Not a good penetration dribble though. Dribbling higher you can run faster, as you’re not as bent over, but more prone to TO’s. This is why in a break, guys dribble high and run fast. But in beating a guy to the basket, a higher dribble is also necessary. Maybe not as high as a break, but higher than crossover type dribbling, which is low dribbling. You just cannot move forward as fast low dribbling, and you can’t drive as quickly. You just cannot run as fast. Maybe that’s why Stan would beat his man laterally, penetrate just slightly, and pull up from 15’, where Talor more often went to the basket and pick up more fouls.

I disagree. I think Battle is by far the best in all four categories listed above.
Pringle’s ball skills were average. He was very fast but…
Luber has good ball skills but his slowness afoot made him easier to guard limited his passing effectiveness
Walker had a weak right hand and made way too many risky passes

Talor is pretty good…except it!


#20

I see kid is already in midseason form. Yes, this season is getting exciting already. I can’t wait until it actually starts.