PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Early season games


#1

In general last season Ed surprised most posters with playing a tight mostly 7 man rotation. Babb and Woodward did not play many minutes. Ott was not eligible. Many regulars played many minutes (see Talor Battle.)

Well, what will happen this season? We have 12 ship players who all have gotten pretty good reviews by posters. Will Ed pick 7 or 8 and rotate them or will he play 10, 11 or 12 guys in the early games?


#2

I hope he plays everyone early and often in the non conference part of the schedule. I thought it hurt us some last year that Babb and Woodyard didn’t get much game action early. But it worked out fine so I have to believe knew what he was doing.


#3

He’ll play who he trusts. I think he gets an intuitive sense of that (in a Myers Briggs kind of way) from the practice floor, or gained during recruiting (he loved DJ from the get-go.) I don’t think he believes in earning/learning through PT.

That’s just the way he coaches.


#4

Play as many people as you can while at the same time getting the core 7 or 8 players oiled for the B10 season / bigger OOC games.

Find that balance Ed!


#5

My bet is that the minutes work out something like this:

PG: Battle 25/Frazier 15
SG: Babb 25/Woodyard 5/Battle 10 (with him and Frazier on the court at same time)
SF: Jackson 25/Woodyard 10/Edwards 5
PF: Brooks 25/Oliver 10/Sasa 5
C: Jones 30/Ott 10

Complete guess, but that’s my attempt at the rotation. Marshall gets a redshirt, and maybe a minute or two at the end of a game for Highberger and Kirkpatrick


#6

[quote=“Devon, post:5, topic:138”]My bet is that the minutes work out something like this:

PG: Battle 25/Frazier 15
SG: Babb 25/Woodyard 5/Battle 10 (with him and Frazier on the court at same time)
SF: Jackson 25/Woodyard 10/Edwards 5
PF: Brooks 25/Oliver 10/Sasa 5
C: Jones 30/Ott 10

Complete guess, but that’s my attempt at the rotation. Marshall gets a redshirt, and maybe a minute or two at the end of a game for Highberger and Kirkpatrick[/quote]

That’s pretty close to what I would come up with except I see more Edwards, less Woodyard (maybe not early but later).


#7

PG: Battle 40
SG: Battle 40
SF: Battle 40
PF: Battle 40
C: Battle 40


#8

[quote=“noobd, post:7, topic:138”]PG: Battle 40
SG: Battle 40
SF: Battle 40
PF: Battle 40
C: Battle 40[/quote]

lol…

I think it’s more like.
PG: Oliver 40
SG: Battle 40
SF: Battle 40
PF: Battle 40
C: Battle 40


#9

As mentioned, Ed goes w/ the guys he trusts/knows…so judging by last year I think it’s safe to assume Battle, Babb, Jackson and Jones will see a lot of minutes. Additionally, I think Brooks, Woodyard and Ott will be regular contributors. Based solely on what I’ve read here, out of the new guys, I think Frazier and Edwards will be part of a regular rotation. That’s nine guys…it’d be really nice if Oliver or Sasa were able to see regular minutes as well. Time will tell. My guess on playing time at the start of the season (very similar to what Devon stated above):

PG - Battle (28), Frazier (12)
SG - Babb (28), Woodyard (7), Battle (5)
SF - Jackson (20), Edwards (15), Woodyard (5)
PF - Brooks (25), Jackson (10), Oliver/Sasa (5)
C - Jones (30), Ott (10)


#10

[quote=“noobd, post:7, topic:138”]PG: Battle 40
SG: Battle 40
SF: Battle 40
PF: Battle 40
C: Battle 40[/quote]

Remember, a lot of this was because we couldn’t/wouldn’t put away the muchcakes. I think ED would LIKE to play his main rotation for 20 minutes, build a good lead, come out for 5 mins in 1/2 half, seal the deal, and then substitute freely. That rarely happened last year because we never sealed the deal until late in a lot of these games.


#11

I guess it depends on your definition of put away. It up 15 points with 10 minutes left against a not so good team put away?

Or do you need to be up 20 points, or 15 points with 6 minutes left?

Other than Battle, I guess I don’t care as much if Jones or whoever sees significant minutes, but if Battle is in the non-conf schedule (Barring the couple of tough teams) playing 36+ minutes in blow-outs, that is not a good thing. Need to rest his legs for when it matters, and at the same time, get Frazier some meaningful minutes at the point. I’d like to see Battle averaging more in the 30 minute range with being able to sit out large parts of the second half.


#12

one of my frustrations of last year is how long it took the team to get on the same page. i had hoped that the early and extra practices allowed for the Canadian trip would have meant for a more fluid start to teh OoC, with most of those cupcakes iced early and often. With teh loss of our three seniors, I’m expecting a similar scenario this year.


#13

[quote=“Devon, post:5, topic:138”]My bet is that the minutes work out something like this:

PG: Battle 25/Frazier 15
SG: Babb 25/Woodyard 5/Battle 10 (with him and Frazier on the court at same time)
SF: Jackson 25/Woodyard 10/Edwards 5
PF: Brooks 25/Oliver 10/Sasa 5
C: Jones 30/Ott 10

Complete guess, but that’s my attempt at the rotation. Marshall gets a redshirt, and maybe a minute or two at the end of a game for Highberger and Kirkpatrick[/quote]

If you’re correct on minutes on the front line, IMO, it will be a bad season. Interestingly, despite no competition entering PSU at the front line positions last year other than Ott(who played less than Hassel the year before, and missed some games) the combined minutes were down for DJ and Brooks from the year before at 37mpg combined(from 37.7). You expect 50? I expect maybe 40, if not less. Now Cornley was out a lot in the prior year and wasn’t out a lot last year, but Claxton had minutes the year before at the forward position. Front line loss of Cornley may give them more mpg, but I think Sasa, Edwards and Oliver combined get more than 20mpg. I think they combined take Cornley’s 35mpg. Call it two guard or three guard, but you just might see Jones(Ott), Oliver and Edwards on the floor at once, or Sasa for one of them, with 2 guards made up from Battle, Frazier, Babb. It’s bigger than a 3 guard offense, not as quick, but can shoot.

I’ve been thinking that they will mostly play 3 guard offense like last year, but maybe they’ll play 2 guard with front line made up of scorers. Splitting hairs, but Danny was a guard in my book and Edwards, Oliver and Sasa are forwards. At 235 lbs., they’re both only 10 and 5 lbs. less than Jones and Ott, respectively, and 35lbs. and 25lbs. heavier than Brooks and DJ respectively. Just a guess.


#14

Another possible lineup is Ottzilla playing 1v5 the entire game, a great chance for victory.

On a less serious note, I want to see these frosh play early and often, as well as Babb!


#15
[quote="Devon, post:5, topic:138"]My bet is that the minutes work out something like this:

PG: Battle 25/Frazier 15
SG: Babb 25/Woodyard 5/Battle 10 (with him and Frazier on the court at same time)
SF: Jackson 25/Woodyard 10/Edwards 5
PF: Brooks 25/Oliver 10/Sasa 5
C: Jones 30/Ott 10

Complete guess, but that’s my attempt at the rotation. Marshall gets a redshirt, and maybe a minute or two at the end of a game for Highberger and Kirkpatrick[/quote]

If you’re correct on minutes on the front line, IMO, it will be a bad season. Interestingly, despite no competition entering PSU at the front line positions last year other than Ott(who played less than Hassel the year before, and missed some games) the combined minutes were down for DJ and Brooks from the year before at 37mpg combined(from 37.7). You expect 50? I expect maybe 40, if not less. Now Cornley was out a lot in the prior year and wasn’t out a lot last year, but Claxton had minutes the year before at the forward position. Front line loss of Cornley may give them more mpg, but I think Sasa, Edwards and Oliver combined get more than 20mpg. I think they combined take Cornley’s 35mpg. Call it two guard or three guard, but you just might see Jones(Ott), Oliver and Edwards on the floor at once, or Sasa for one of them, with 2 guards made up from Battle, Frazier, Babb. It’s bigger than a 3 guard offense, not as quick, but can shoot.

I’ve been thinking that they will mostly play 3 guard offense like last year, but maybe they’ll play 2 guard with front line made up of scorers. Splitting hairs, but Danny was a guard in my book and Edwards, Oliver and Sasa are forwards. At 235 lbs., they’re both only 10 and 5 lbs. less than Jones and Ott, respectively, and 35lbs. and 25lbs. heavier than Brooks and DJ respectively. Just a guess.

In the scrimmage, Edwards was playing mainly the two-guard position guarding Babb (at least he was trying to guard him - Babb went 6-7 in the 20 minute scrimmage). Despite his size, I have yet to see anything that would suggest that Edwards will play a post and not a guard position. He worked out entirely at the 2/3 spot.


#16
[quote="Devon, post:5, topic:138"]My bet is that the minutes work out something like this:

PG: Battle 25/Frazier 15
SG: Babb 25/Woodyard 5/Battle 10 (with him and Frazier on the court at same time)
SF: Jackson 25/Woodyard 10/Edwards 5
PF: Brooks 25/Oliver 10/Sasa 5
C: Jones 30/Ott 10

Complete guess, but that’s my attempt at the rotation. Marshall gets a redshirt, and maybe a minute or two at the end of a game for Highberger and Kirkpatrick[/quote]

If you’re correct on minutes on the front line, IMO, it will be a bad season. Interestingly, despite no competition entering PSU at the front line positions last year other than Ott(who played less than Hassel the year before, and missed some games) the combined minutes were down for DJ and Brooks from the year before at 37mpg combined(from 37.7). You expect 50? I expect maybe 40, if not less. Now Cornley was out a lot in the prior year and wasn’t out a lot last year, but Claxton had minutes the year before at the forward position. Front line loss of Cornley may give them more mpg, but I think Sasa, Edwards and Oliver combined get more than 20mpg. I think they combined take Cornley’s 35mpg. Call it two guard or three guard, but you just might see Jones(Ott), Oliver and Edwards on the floor at once, or Sasa for one of them, with 2 guards made up from Battle, Frazier, Babb. It’s bigger than a 3 guard offense, not as quick, but can shoot.

I’ve been thinking that they will mostly play 3 guard offense like last year, but maybe they’ll play 2 guard with front line made up of scorers. Splitting hairs, but Danny was a guard in my book and Edwards, Oliver and Sasa are forwards. At 235 lbs., they’re both only 10 and 5 lbs. less than Jones and Ott, respectively, and 35lbs. and 25lbs. heavier than Brooks and DJ respectively. Just a guess.

Kid, it seems you think Oliver and Sasa are going to play over DJ and Brooks and frankly I just don’t see how that happens…especially at the start of the season. Ed really seems to trust DJ (he continued to get minutes last year when he wasn’t scoring at all). I bet DJ plays 30 minutes a game. I also think Brooks starts and if he’s not performing I think it’s more likely that Babb/Woodyard/Edwards comes in to play the 3 and DJ moves to the 4, instead of seeing Sasa or Oliver. Now, hopefully in the long run (and maybe even later this season), we’ll see more Oliver and Sasa but it sounds like Oliver could be behind to start this season due to flu/headaches and reports are that Sasa is a freshman post player…and I’ve just confirmed those reports :smiley: Many young post players take time to develop. Hopefully, we’ll all end up impressed w/ Sasa and Oliver but I don’t think we’ll see much of them early this season.


#17

there’s absolutely no way Sasa or Oliver will be taking minutes from DJ, and slightly less chance that they’ll take many minutes from Brooks.

This will be DJ’s 4th year in the program - while he’s yet to breakout offensively the way some of us still think he’s capable of, he’s a trust-worthy player defensively, in rebounding, and in taking care of the ball. That’s going to be more than Sasa or Oliver will provide, by a huge stretch considering they may never know the system as well as DJ does right now.

As far as Brooks - well I’m sort’ve in the minority I guess when I say I have no faith whatsoever in the kid. However, I don’t think Ed’s given up on him yet and he still has more experience than the other two guys you’ve listed.

I think many times people get really caught up on what they hear about freshmen’s abilities, forgetting that it can sometime take a few years for those types of things to come out at the college level - that’s why I’m cautious to be so excited about Frazier, despite the fact that i really am impressed by him nearly as much as I was with Battle. Those type of impact freshmen are RARE at a program of Penn State’s caliber, so to just assume that our entire new lineup of guys will be able to step in and take over spots that other guys have already earned - seems like a longshot to me.

If Sasa and Oliver were truly good enough to take legitimate minutes away from a guy like DJ, i think we would have a really special team on our hands. I’ve yet to see any evidence that proves this is the case though.


#18
[quote="Devon, post:5, topic:138"]My bet is that the minutes work out something like this:

PG: Battle 25/Frazier 15
SG: Babb 25/Woodyard 5/Battle 10 (with him and Frazier on the court at same time)
SF: Jackson 25/Woodyard 10/Edwards 5
PF: Brooks 25/Oliver 10/Sasa 5
C: Jones 30/Ott 10

Complete guess, but that’s my attempt at the rotation. Marshall gets a redshirt, and maybe a minute or two at the end of a game for Highberger and Kirkpatrick[/quote]

If you’re correct on minutes on the front line, IMO, it will be a bad season. Interestingly, despite no competition entering PSU at the front line positions last year other than Ott(who played less than Hassel the year before, and missed some games) the combined minutes were down for DJ and Brooks from the year before at 37mpg combined(from 37.7). You expect 50? I expect maybe 40, if not less. Now Cornley was out a lot in the prior year and wasn’t out a lot last year, but Claxton had minutes the year before at the forward position. Front line loss of Cornley may give them more mpg, but I think Sasa, Edwards and Oliver combined get more than 20mpg. I think they combined take Cornley’s 35mpg. Call it two guard or three guard, but you just might see Jones(Ott), Oliver and Edwards on the floor at once, or Sasa for one of them, with 2 guards made up from Battle, Frazier, Babb. It’s bigger than a 3 guard offense, not as quick, but can shoot.

I’ve been thinking that they will mostly play 3 guard offense like last year, but maybe they’ll play 2 guard with front line made up of scorers. Splitting hairs, but Danny was a guard in my book and Edwards, Oliver and Sasa are forwards. At 235 lbs., they’re both only 10 and 5 lbs. less than Jones and Ott, respectively, and 35lbs. and 25lbs. heavier than Brooks and DJ respectively. Just a guess.

In the scrimmage, Edwards was playing mainly the two-guard position guarding Babb (at least he was trying to guard him - Babb went 6-7 in the 20 minute scrimmage). Despite his size, I have yet to see anything that would suggest that Edwards will play a post and not a guard position. He worked out entirely at the 2/3 spot.

Maybe a 3 for sure. Be strong front line, Edwards with Drew and either Sasa, DJ, Brooks, Oliver. I just think they need points in the paint. If those other guys do it, fine. Drew and Cornley were at 20ppg combined. I don’t buy the “score by committee” in the paint so much, as you’re going to be in final seconds of games where you need a go to guy. Yes, Battle, and maybe Babb, but someone inside. Sign of a good team, IMO. I just bet you’ll see lineups like this:

Battle, Frazier, Babb, Drew and Edwards/Sasa/Oliver.

Last year, Cornley averaged 35mpg, so whether 2 or 3 guard offense, the team had a scorer at the 4. I think you’ll still need that. So, if Oliver or Edwards are 3’s, even though they may get points greater than last year’s 3’s, you’ll still need to score in the paint. IMO, it’s winning basketball. You’ll need 20ppg from the two 4/5 leading players.


#19

[quote=“Craftsy21, post:17, topic:138”]there’s absolutely no way Sasa or Oliver will be taking minutes from DJ, and slightly less chance that they’ll take many minutes from Brooks.

This will be DJ’s 4th year in the program - while he’s yet to breakout offensively the way some of us still think he’s capable of, he’s a trust-worthy player defensively, in rebounding, and in taking care of the ball. That’s going to be more than Sasa or Oliver will provide, by a huge stretch considering they may never know the system as well as DJ does right now.

As far as Brooks - well I’m sort’ve in the minority I guess when I say I have no faith whatsoever in the kid. However, I don’t think Ed’s given up on him yet and he still has more experience than the other two guys you’ve listed.

I think many times people get really caught up on what they hear about freshmen’s abilities, forgetting that it can sometime take a few years for those types of things to come out at the college level - that’s why I’m cautious to be so excited about Frazier, despite the fact that i really am impressed by him nearly as much as I was with Battle. Those type of impact freshmen are RARE at a program of Penn State’s caliber, so to just assume that our entire new lineup of guys will be able to step in and take over spots that other guys have already earned - seems like a longshot to me.

If Sasa and Oliver were truly good enough to take legitimate minutes away from a guy like DJ, i think we would have a really special team on our hands. I’ve yet to see any evidence that proves this is the case though.[/quote]

Good post!


#20

Excellent paragraph! And this thought/idea also relates directly to the “football crowd”. We bring in All-American’s, and they should be starting ahead of previous All-American’s.