PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Don't try to spin Maryland game


#1

PSU got embarrassed on their home floor. Ed looked like a deer in headlights every time they panned over to him and he had no answers. You could tell by Battle’s body langauge that at one point in the second half, he was just so exasperated about the effort he was giving but how bad everybody else was. Frazier/Oliver/Woodyard showed they aren’t ready to compete against any decent BCS level team. PSU got destroyed, they shot pathetically because other than Battle, nobody on that team can compete with quality BCS teams. Cornley and Pringle could step their games up and compete, Morrissey put out the effort and wasn’t afraid and when he was on, could compete.

Last night’s game combined with the Ole Miss game shows how far this program is away from competing. Time to make a change and I wouldn’t wait until the year is over.


#2

I agree completely! We have played two AVERAGE bcs teams. Yes one of those teams was Maryland, but they are young. We got embarassed on our court by a bunch of underclassmen. Ed is afraid to play the bench which is a big reason I cannot stand his coaching tactics. If we are shooting 11 percent from three, why not try somebody else? Bowman or Marshall deserved at least a chance last night.


#3

I will try to “be nice.” The bench players who did play last night did not contribute a lot. I think 4 got first half minutes. What makes anyone think that going deeper into your bench we would find better players?? If we played our last 5 guys on the bench together…would Williams take out his regulars and play with his last five bench players??
Some posters need to really “get real.” This game was not lost by in game coaching. Maryland just has better and more athletic basketball players!!


#4

I’m not saying that our last 5 guys on the bench would have made us win. What would it have hurt to give Bowman or Marshall a chance to shoot the ball? How did Frazier or Buie do, combined 1 for 17. Why not give some of the other guys a chance?


#5

I will simply say that this cannot continue. I’m saddened to see how the program has regressed into what it used to be pre-NIT.


#6

[quote=“BleedPSU, post:5, topic:1586”]I will simply say that this cannot continue. I’m saddened to see how the program has regressed into what it used to be pre-NIT.[/quote]You can point the finger at Timmy boy. He shared in some vision that I think the rest of us are still trying to figure out what it is. Ed is asked to coach this team and that’s what he’s trying to do (not very well ) . Ed is not going to remove himself so I point all the fingers at Tim and Spanier.


#7

First, I just want to say hi to all the folks on these boards. This is my first post ever on here, and I’m just relieved that I found this site. I can’t believe I missed it all these years. I finally have other people to talk to about PSU basketball, which is awesome! And thanks to the moderator for approving my request. I’m very grateful. :slight_smile:

But now, as far as the team goes, I’m gonna have to say that I’m one of the folks who does still believe this team has an outside shot at postseason play. Call me naive if you’d like, but I have my reasons. Yes, last night was embarrassing. No doubt about it. However, I don’t believe for an instant that we’ll see that kind of shooting again from here on out, especially from the likes of Jackson and Buie. Bad losses happen. It’s just the way it goes. For us, the timing couldn’t have been worse, and I think that makes this game so much harder to swallow. Still, I really do believe this team is better than most folks expected before the season started. I expect Buie to improve as the season goes. I expect Brooks to continue to come out and play the way he has been in these first seven games (he did still have 10 rebounds last night, btw). And I don’t expect that the team will shoot like that again from here on out.

My expectations are definitely tempered by the lack of depth on this year’s team and DeChellis’ inability to consistently put together quality offensive game plans. But if Brooks keeps playing the way he has (when he’s in not foul trouble, obviously), and if Buie can get more comfortable out there as the season goes along, anything is possible, IMHO. I think making the tourney should still be the goal, even if the odds are clearly against us. And I just don’t feel like all hope is lost. Just gotta take it one game at a time and see how things unfold, I think…


#8

[quote=“Spades88, post:7, topic:1586”]First, I just want to say hi to all the folks on these boards. This is my first post ever on here, and I’m just relieved that I found this site. I can’t believe I missed it all these years. I finally have other people to talk to about PSU basketball, which is awesome! And thanks to the moderator for approving my request. I’m very grateful. :slight_smile:

But now, as far as the team goes, I’m gonna have to say that I’m one of the folks who does still believe this team has an outside shot at postseason play. Call me naive if you’d like, but I have my reasons. Yes, last night was embarrassing. No doubt about it. However, I don’t believe for an instant that we’ll see that kind of shooting again from here on out, especially from the likes of Jackson and Buie. Bad losses happen. It’s just the way it goes. For us, the timing couldn’t have been worse, and I think that makes this game so much harder to swallow. Still, I really do believe this team is better than most folks expected before the season started. I expect Buie to improve as the season goes. I expect Brooks to continue to come out and play the way he has been in these first seven games (he did still have 10 rebounds last night, btw). And I don’t expect that the team will shoot like that again from here on out.

My expectations are definitely tempered by the lack of depth on this year’s team and DeChellis’ inability to consistently put together quality offensive game plans. But if Brooks keeps playing the way he has (when he’s in not foul trouble, obviously), and if Buie can get more comfortable out there as the season goes along, anything is possible, IMHO. I think making the tourney should still be the goal, even if the odds are clearly against us. And I just don’t feel like all hope is lost. Just gotta take it one game at a time and see how things unfold, I think…[/quote]

Welcome Spades! You have said more reasonable things in your one post here than the majority of posters here ever have.

It’s amazing to me that all these guys who rarely ever post suddenly show up when something terrible happens like last night, bashing the program and taking shots at anybody who still defends these guys as a fan. But it’s become the norm around here - there’s about 15 regular posters who follow the team all year round, and then another 20 who show up just to whine when something has gone wrong that season.

It’s so rare to have somebody in your position, showing up after the embarrassment last night to defend these guys instead. The last thing we need here is another negative crybaby, so I’m glad to have you on board and look forward to seeing you post more!

I agree with everything you just typed - people are overreacting. Maybe expectations were/are too high for this team this year, but we are not as bad as everyone is trying to make us out to be after last night. Not a chance.


#9

[quote=“Craftsy21, post:8, topic:1586”]Welcome Spades! You have said more reasonable things in your one post here than the majority of posters here ever have.

It’s amazing to me that all these guys who rarely ever post suddenly show up when something terrible happens like last night, bashing the program and taking shots at anybody who still defends these guys as a fan. But it’s become the norm around here - there’s about 15 regular posters who follow the team all year round, and then another 20 who show up just to whine when something has gone wrong that season.

It’s so rare to have somebody in your position, showing up after the embarrassment last night to defend these guys instead. The last thing we need here is another negative crybaby, so I’m glad to have you on board and look forward to seeing you post more!

I agree with everything you just typed - people are overreacting. Maybe expectations were/are too high for this team this year, but we are not as bad as everyone is trying to make us out to be after last night. Not a chance.[/quote]

Thanks for the warm welcome, craftsy! I hear ya on the negativity. I mean, I do understand it, seeing as how hopes were so high after the NIT championship. To fall as far as we have since then isn’t easy to accept. But for me, it’s the little stuff that keeps me optimistic about things. Back during the Claxton/Cornley era, you didn’t often see guys playing smart like Jones did last night. It looks like he recognizes his own limitations and is trying to compensate for them, hence why he worked to tip those rebounds to other guys when he knew that he couldn’t grab them himself. It’s also been a while since I’ve seen a bench player hustle as hard as Oliver does. It also looks to me like Frazier is definitely improving out there despite his lack of scoring. He’s finding open guys, playing solid defense and creating some turnovers. These are things I just don’t remember seeing much of in previous seasons. So for the guys who didn’t follow the team too closely during that same span of time, it might be harder to notice those things. I mean, 16 offensive rebounds against a quality ACC team is something that never would have happened a few years ago. Had we won last night, that stat would’ve been what all the analysts would be pointing to today as a big reason for our success.

We were just cold. I mean, REALLY cold. But every team has nights like that. We had the same problem in our win against Illinois in '08, but then we went on to win the NIT. So, you know, anything could happen. This season could still turn out to be a disaster, but there are reasons to hold out hope, and I just don’t think that one game is enough to erase that hope. Besides, what’s the alternative? I sure am not going to sit around all year expecting the worst night in and night out. That’s no fun, lol. :stuck_out_tongue:


#10

Oh, and hey, at least the B10 won the challenge! That’s two years in a row. I don’t know about anyone else, but that makes me smile. I can’t stand a lot of the ACC fans who think their conference is God’s gift to the basketball world, so hopefully this will keep them quiet for a while. :wink:


#11

Thumbs up for that! After watching the challenge (minus the Michigan State/Duke game since I was at the BJC) I must say that despite having a tough game last night, if we play up to our potential, we can compete in the Big Ten. I don’t think we’re on the level of Michigan State or Ohio State. Minnesota showed their weaknesses and Purdue isn’t the same without Robbie Hummel; Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, and Northwestern are teams who looks pretty streaky, Indiana has potential but I don’t think it will be reached this year and Iowa is just plain bad.

I think if we can go 9-7 or 10-6 in conference play and pull the upset @ Virginia Tech we give ourself a shot at the NCAA. If not, a winning conference record should be good enough for the NIT…we just need to knock down our shots and keep Brooks/Jackson out of foul trouble!


#12
This season could still turn out to be a disaster, but there are reasons to hold out hope, and I just don't think that one game is enough to erase that hope. Besides, what's the alternative? I sure am not going to sit around all year expecting the worst night in and night out.

Exactly. I don’t understand how some of these guys can stick around watching this team the way they complain. A guy like Tom will be calling the game (and season) over 2 minutes into it when one bad things happens.

I have stopped following PSU football for the most part because I just could not take the disappointment they were causing me. Until there is a serious change made there, I doubt I’ll ever get back into them seriously. I don’t still head over to FOS and make everyone suffer through my rants all the time, why would I waste my time talking about something that makes me so miserable constantly? You don’t have to keep watching if you don’t support what’s going on with the program - and you definitely don’t have to keep posting here about it.

I understand wanting to voice your opinion on the matter and help make changes happen - but none of us can do anything for you. Take your crying elsewhere, we all know damn well the problems this program has - we just choose not to dwell on it 365 days a year. :smiley:


#13

Exactly. I don’t understand how some of these guys can stick around watching this team the way they complain. A guy like Tom will be calling the game (and season) over 2 minutes into it when one bad things happens.

I have stopped following PSU football for the most part because I just could not take the disappointment they were causing me. Until there is a serious change made there, I doubt I’ll ever get back into them seriously. I don’t still head over to FOS and make everyone suffer through my rants all the time, why would I waste my time talking about something that makes me so miserable constantly? You don’t have to keep watching if you don’t support what’s going on with the program - and you definitely don’t have to keep posting here about it.

I understand wanting to voice your opinion on the matter and help make changes happen - but none of us can do anything for you. Take your crying elsewhere, we all know damn well the problems this program has - we just choose not to dwell on it 365 days a year. :D[/quote]Ah so we are to pretend everything is hunky dory and we are headed in the right direction. Thanks for clearing that one up for us 365 days a year . :wink:


#14
Oh, and hey, at least the B10 won the challenge! That's two years in a row. I don't know about anyone else, but that makes me smile. I can't stand a lot of the ACC fans who think their conference is God's gift to the basketball world, so hopefully this will keep them quiet for a while. ;)

Thumbs up for that! After watching the challenge (minus the Michigan State/Duke game since I was at the BJC) I must say that despite having a tough game last night, if we play up to our potential, we can compete in the Big Ten. I don’t think we’re on the level of Michigan State or Ohio State. Minnesota showed their weaknesses and Purdue isn’t the same without Robbie Hummel; Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, and Northwestern are teams who looks pretty streaky, Indiana has potential but I don’t think it will be reached this year and Iowa is just plain bad.
I think if we can go 9-7 or 10-6 in conference play and pull the upset @ Virginia Tech we give ourself a shot at the NCAA. If not, a winning conference record should be good enough for the NIT…we just need to knock down our shots and keep Brooks/Jackson out of foul trouble!

We will be battling with Iowa and Indiana for that last spot I’m afraid all year. I think Crean might be on the hot seat here soon if they don’t start to improve . Iowa on the other hand is playing well and hard. They try and play D and run some pretty nice offensive sets ( and their talent is no better than ours). That is a team that “should” continue to improve all year. The rest you mentioned are clearly on another level than us and if you can’t admit I don’t what to tell you. 9-7 or 10-6 you have to be kidding me !? Give me whatever you are drinking I def need some of that

#15

I was there, and probably one of the biggest disappointments was Penn State had exactly the type of crowd it needed. Maybe not the 5-figure crowd they were hoping for, but a great student turnout and everyone was loud, energetic and into the game at the start. For 12 minutes the team actually had a homecourt advantage and had the crowd believing in Penn State basketball. Unfortunately dreadful halfcourt offense and shooting took them out of it.

I can’t believe we watched an entire year of the “dribble around aimlessly for 25 seconds then get the ball to Battle and hope something good happens” offense and now it’s back again, although now they’re only wasting about 15 seconds with dribble handoffs (between 2 players who aren’t looking to shoot or drive) instead of 25.

After that, it’s get the ball to Battle off a weak pin-down and run some type of high-screen roll with no weakside action, just mediocre shooters spotting up around the 3pt line. Good teams like MD show and force Battle to give it up, and last night he was either turning it over or passing it to one of his many teammates to either pump-fake on a wide-open three or miss it completely.

The talent clearly is lacking (Frazier should be a backup PG a la Brandon Watkins on the 00-01 team), Jackson should be your 4th or 5th option offensively, not 2nd and 3rd. Oliver shouldn’t even be sniffing the rotation rather than being your first (and only) big off the bench. That said, putting mediocre players in no position to succeed falls on the coaching staff. Ball movement and player movement stinks. If Ed’s going to try to ride Battle and hope he can bail out his teammates every possession there no reason to expect anything different from last season, except tougher competition in conference play.


#16
That said, putting mediocre players in no position to succeed falls on the coaching staff. Ball movement and player movement stinks.

I disagree a bit on your player evaluations, but you hit the nail on the head with the rest of your post. I think we have enough talent to be a tough beat each and every night, but I don’t think the coaching staff gets the most out of these guys and we rely far too much on Battle in tough spots. Unless the gameplan changes drastically, we will struggle to win close games again this year… until last night I thought the gameplan had been changing, Battle was getting to work off the ball more and there was less wasted dribbling. But a bit of foul trouble last night, combined with a short bench, and we were reverting to last year immediately. Very frustrating to watch.

Still think there’s a chance of righting the ship if the right things are learned from last night’s debacle - but we have no room for anymore eggs to be laid.


#17

[quote=“Spades88, post:7, topic:1586”]First, I just want to say hi to all the folks on these boards. This is my first post ever on here, and I’m just relieved that I found this site. I can’t believe I missed it all these years. I finally have other people to talk to about PSU basketball, which is awesome! And thanks to the moderator for approving my request. I’m very grateful. :slight_smile:

But now, as far as the team goes, I’m gonna have to say that I’m one of the folks who does still believe this team has an outside shot at postseason play. Call me naive if you’d like, but I have my reasons. Yes, last night was embarrassing. No doubt about it. However, I don’t believe for an instant that we’ll see that kind of shooting again from here on out, especially from the likes of Jackson and Buie. Bad losses happen. It’s just the way it goes. For us, the timing couldn’t have been worse, and I think that makes this game so much harder to swallow. Still, I really do believe this team is better than most folks expected before the season started. I expect Buie to improve as the season goes. I expect Brooks to continue to come out and play the way he has been in these first seven games (he did still have 10 rebounds last night, btw). And I don’t expect that the team will shoot like that again from here on out.

My expectations are definitely tempered by the lack of depth on this year’s team and DeChellis’ inability to consistently put together quality offensive game plans. But if Brooks keeps playing the way he has (when he’s in not foul trouble, obviously), and if Buie can get more comfortable out there as the season goes along, anything is possible, IMHO. I think making the tourney should still be the goal, even if the odds are clearly against us. And I just don’t feel like all hope is lost. Just gotta take it one game at a time and see how things unfold, I think…[/quote]

Spades just wanted to give you a welcome and don’t let the negativity scare you away. For the most part you got a pretty good bunch in here.

Like I said last night, burn the tape and move on. The shots didn’t fall that’s all there is to say.


#18

[quote=“jjepsu92, post:17, topic:1586”]Spades just wanted to give you a welcome and don’t let the negativity scare you away. For the most part you got a pretty good bunch in here.

Like I said last night, burn the tape and move on. The shots didn’t fall that’s all there is to say.[/quote]

One suggestion, shred it first.


#19

I disagree a bit on your player evaluations, but you hit the nail on the head with the rest of your post. I think we have enough talent to be a tough beat each and every night, but I don’t think the coaching staff gets the most out of these guys and we rely far too much on Battle in tough spots. Unless the gameplan changes drastically, we will struggle to win close games again this year… until last night I thought the gameplan had been changing, Battle was getting to work off the ball more and there was less wasted dribbling. But a bit of foul trouble last night, combined with a short bench, and we were reverting to last year immediately. Very frustrating to watch.

Still think there’s a chance of righting the ship if the right things are learned from last night’s debacle - but we have no room for anymore eggs to be laid.[/quote]

This is spot on IMO. Last night looked exactly like last year; the other 4 guys standing around waiting for Talor to make a play. A starting 5 of Battle, Frazier, Brooks, DJ and Jones should compete night in and out and be a tough out. There is enough talent there in the starting 5. Now depth is another story.


#20

It wasn’t just that the shots weren’t falling. First, many shots were ill-advised. More importantly, it isn’t as if a ton of shots “rimmed out” or were “in and out”. There were several air balls and others that were off by a long shot.