PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Does evisceration of the Big East make Pat Chamber's job easier or harder?

At least for football, I think the Big East will lose a lot of its luster - especially if the Mounties leave. With Pitt and Syracuse leaving for the ACC, does a kid think twice about playing in the Big East? What happens to Nova? Will Temple be invited back to the Big East? If UCONN and/or Rutgers leave, is the Big East done as an all sports conference?

I think Pat (just like every other PSU coach in the past 50 years) will have a tough time recruiting top kids from the major cities in the Middle Atlantic region.

From my own point of view, I never really gave Big Ten football or basketball more than a passing thought until PSU joined the Big Ten. I think most kids in Philly, Balto, DC, NYC, Jersey and suburban VA and MD don’t think much about the Big 10 - mainly because of the plodding style of play (per Dick Jerardi, Penn State is a running team in a walking league).

What do you guys think?

A little easier, but not much.

[quote=“Great Santini, post:1, topic:2676”]At least for football, I think the Big East will lose a lot of its luster - especially if the Mounties leave. With Pitt and Syracuse leaving for the ACC, does a kid think twice about playing in the Big East? What happens to Nova? Will Temple be invited back to the Big East? If UCONN and/or Rutgers leave, is the Big East done as an all sports conference?

I think Pat (just like every other PSU coach in the past 50 years) will have a tough time recruiting top kids from the major cities in the Middle Atlantic region.

From my own point of view, I never really gave Big Ten football or basketball more than a passing thought until PSU joined the Big Ten. I think most kids in Philly, Balto, DC, NYC, Jersey and suburban VA and MD don’t think much about the Big 10 - mainly because of the plodding style of play (per Dick Jerardi, Penn State is a running team in a walking league).

What do you guys think?[/quote]

Lots of good questions. What if it has the sort of opposite effect? What if the attempt at concentration of great teams in 4 conferences or so backfires, and the mid-majors continue to grow in prominence? These moves seem to reek of desperation, viz, $$$$$. I read last year that Purdue was running something like a $21 million budget deficit, and was cutting people. I think reality is hitting college campuses. Syracuse has to be $50,000 per year, and they probably need more dough to fill funding gaps. I bet you see some collapse of some programs, surprising ones. Like Cal State Fullerton quitting baseball. Yes, I know it’s baseball, but I just sense that things aren’t adding up for some sports programs, and schools can’t squeeze non-athletes for more $$$. Parents have had it, IMO.

I think college in general is in for major restructuring - not just athletic departments. Costs are just way out of control. If you look at the way the iPad is being used in all levels of instruction; look at iTunes University; look at the fact that college kids can sit in their dorm rooms and take a course over the internet; and look at the huge physical plants of colleges and universities that sit essentially empty and unused for about 1/3 of the year.

And like you said, Syracuse is $50K per year (and of course, kids expect to have an SUV at college now) - is it really worth it to get that BA in History or BS in Women’s Studies?

I don’t think it’ll make much of a difference at least until we’ve already found out if Chambers can pull it off here or not.

This is great question, and I don’t know we will see the answer to for a few seasons. Now he can use it as a recruiting tactic for sure, the Big East is still a really good Basketball Conference but loosing Pitt, Cuse and Uconn really takes out 3 of the top 6 team of last decade in the conference. They definitely drop in Conference power rankings but we will probably see a team like St. Johns fill some of the vacuum that is left. The wild card is if 'Nova actually gets accepted on there bid to be part of the ACC.

It kind of makes me wish we had more 'ships to hand out in the next couple of years. Now would be a great time to take advantage of the uncertainty. We can tell recruits that the B1G is a sure thing while the Big East is not. Whether or not they will bit is unknown.

I fail to see how this has much impact on our recruiting. The reason kids went to the Big East was because of the competition, now that level of competition follows Pitt and 'Cuse to the ACC. Those schools still have the same impact on recruiting in the Northeast and Penn State basketball. UNC and Duke have always cherry picked PA kids and will continue to do so.

Nothing has changed.

I think it “can’t hurt.” …and it MIGHT help. Atleast in the short term.
But the “help” is limited. I believe you recruit kids “TO” your school much more so than “AWAY” from other schools.

P.S. We don’t have many ships to deal with, anyway.

Unless Pitt & Syracuse collapse, the move doesn’t change the difficulty recruiting against them. Same goes for any other Big East school that might move to the ACC.

Right now, losing only Pitt and Syracuse does not even remotely qualify as an evisceration from a basketball standpoint. Cincinnati, Connecticut, DePaul, Georgetown, Louisville, Marquette, Notre Dame, Rutgers, Seton Hall, South Florida, St. John’s, Villanova, West Virginia is still a damn good basketball conference that will provide plenty of competition and exposure for any kid. It will take more than two schools leaving to eviscerate the Big East basketball wise.

Now if two of the following group also leave, then it’t a diferent story: UConn, Louisville, Notre Dame & Cincy

Even then, it wouldn’t make it easier to recruit against UConn or a remaining Villanova, but it would make it easier to recruit against a Seton Hall or a St. John’s.

I think the moves will 86 Villanova’s IA football ambitions.

Here’s a scenario to consider. If enough of the IA football teams leave the BigEast, those with no or only IAA football might move to the the A-10, CAA or Horizon. Maybe the A-10 & CAA will swap some of their northern and southern outliers. SOme of the western A-10 to the Horizon

Another question, where does Kansas basket end up?

[quote=“timauman, post:10, topic:2676”]Unless Pitt & Syracuse collapse, the move doesn’t change the difficulty recruiting against them. Same goes for any other Big East school that might move to the ACC.

Right now, losing only Pitt and Syracuse does not even remotely qualify as an evisceration from a basketball standpoint. Cincinnati, Connecticut, DePaul, Georgetown, Louisville, Marquette, Notre Dame, Rutgers, Seton Hall, South Florida, St. John’s, Villanova, West Virginia is still a damn good basketball conference that will provide plenty of competition and exposure for any kid. It will take more than two schools leaving to eviscerate the Big East basketball wise.

Now if two of the following group also leave, then it’t a diferent story: UConn, Louisville, Notre Dame & Cincy

Even then, it wouldn’t make it easier to recruit against UConn or a remaining Villanova, but it would make it easier to recruit against a Seton Hall or a St. John’s.

Here’s a scenario to consider. If enough of the IA football teams leave the BigEast, those with no or only IAA football might move to the the A-10 or CAA, improving those considerably. I could also see Villanova bagging their IA ambitions.[/quote]

I hear ya T…BUT everybody knows other BigLeast schools WANT TO GO, are BEGGING TO GO…and… WILL GO… SOON.
Nova’s future sure seems very "interesting."
What will happen to the Catholic schools ???
The “huge dark cloud” is already hanging over the BigLeast. I think I see some turkey vultures also…

yes, I know they’re not balanced, but perhaps you end up with something along the lines of:

Atlantic 10:
Dayton, Drexel, Duquesne, Fordham, Hofstra, La Salle, Massachusetts, Northeastern, Rhode Island, Saint Joseph’s, St. Bonaventure, St. John’s, Seton Hall, Temple, Villanova, Xavier

CAA:
Charlotte, Delaware, George Mason, Georgetown, George Washington, Georgia State, James Madison, North Carolina-Wilmington, Old Dominion, Richmond, Towson, Virginia Commonwealth, William & Mary

Horizon:
Butler, Cleveland State, DePaul, Detroit, Green Bay, Illinois-Chicago, Loyola, Marquette, Milwaukee, Saint Louis, Valparaiso, Wright State, Youngstown State

wanting and begging to go is one thing. being accepted by by a top conference is another.

[quote="tundra, post:11, topic:2676"]I hear ya T.....................BUT everybody knows other BigLeast schools WANT TO GO, are BEGGING TO GO.......and...... WILL GO............ SOON.[/quote]

wanting and begging to go is one thing. being accepted by by a top conference is another.

Yeah…but…it sure makes for good college sport watching and talking. A whole lot of scrambling going on for the power brokers of these universities.
Seems to me like some one dropped a bag of gold coins in the conference boardroom…and all of the suits are on their hands and knees scrambling to get their share.

There has been some really interesting discussion on the Pitt/Cuse departure in the sports media in Connecticut. The sports guys are all saying the same thing - football drives the athletic department at just about every school. Even UCONN (which has a fabulously successful women’s BB program and a very successful men’s BB program with a combined 10 national championships in the last 20 years) will do what is best for the football program because “football dominates the scene.”

If basketball can’t run the show at UCONN, I don’t know where it can (other than the schools that don’t play I-A football like Georgetown, Marquette, etc.). Maybe Duke and UNC and Kansas.

It remains to be seen if the basketball-only schools can survive and thrive in a reconstituted Big East (or some other league).

This is going to get really interesting and mostly likely lawsuits will ensue.

The 'basketball only" schools will survive… Heck, all/most have HUGE $$ tuitions…But, their hoop footprint will fade year by year and then slowly disappear.
Georgetown will go back to being the Georgetown of the 60s. When they used to boost of being a great academic school.

I don’t think it will make a difference. Pitt and Cuse can say we’ll play against Duke and UNC and will still be on TV, so no change there. The other Big East schools will reconstitute in some type of league and it will have decent BBall. Not as good as the Old Big East, but still good enough. I don’t think that Chambers is going to be able to ‘sell’ that playing for PSU in the Big Ten is better than playing for college X in the new Big East because the Big East is down a little bit. Chambers has to convince kids that playing for PSU in the Big Ten is bigtime BBall, that is the HUGE hurdle that needs to be crossed before trying to negative sell other schools.

If anything, i think the long term affects could be more important. If UConn and another Big Least team move to the ACC, I could see that throwing the Big Least into complete turmoil and eventually something coming out of it that is a much lesser league. Especially if UConn goes, as without UConn, Cuse, and Pittsburgh (who has a surprisngly large NYC draw), I could see the Big Least really losing NYC as it’s college BBall mecca. So if 4 or 5 years from now the Big least is just another ‘decent’ BBall conference and not the huge juggernaught it is today, I could see that helping PSU a little bit if Chambers can raise the program in the next couple of year.

[quote=“timauman, post:12, topic:2676”]yes, I know they’re not balanced, but perhaps you end up with something along the lines of:

Atlantic 10:
Dayton, Drexel, Duquesne, Fordham, Hofstra, La Salle, Massachusetts, Northeastern, Rhode Island, Saint Joseph’s, St. Bonaventure, St. John’s, Seton Hall, Temple, Villanova, Xavier

CAA:
Charlotte, Delaware, George Mason, Georgetown, George Washington, Georgia State, James Madison, North Carolina-Wilmington, Old Dominion, Richmond, Towson, Virginia Commonwealth, William & Mary

Horizon:
Butler, Cleveland State, DePaul, Detroit, Green Bay, Illinois-Chicago, Loyola, Marquette, Milwaukee, Saint Louis, Valparaiso, Wright State, Youngstown State[/quote]

But aren’t the NCAA Tournament payouts tied to the conferences past performance. The Big East will survive as a non-football conference and probably end up poaching these other 3 conferences,

BTW, I’m certain this marks the first ever use of “evisceration” in a subject line on a sports message board.