Defensive Basketball video


#1

Ran into this, not sure why it was made…but I figured I’d share.
Importance of the Safety in Transition Defense


#2

Two things…

1 - That miss by Talor was a prime example of our shooting issues having nothing to do with our post play. We’re missing a lot of wide open shots.
(disclaimer - it’s not a knock on Talor, he just happens to be the example in the video)

2 - The babb foul looked harder that I originally thought.


#3

[quote=“LPcreation, post:2, topic:499”]Two things…

2 - The babb foul looked harder that I originally thought.[/quote]

I agree. When I saw it after I got home, I wasn’t quite as upset as I was when it happened. Still I think he went for the ball and it shouldn’t have been called but it wasn’t quite as an egregious call as I thought. However, the fact that the call was made by a trailing ref rather than the closest one still bothers me.


#4

[quote=“LPcreation, post:2, topic:499”]Two things…

1 - That miss by Talor was a prime example of our shooting issues having nothing to do with our post play. We’re missing a lot of wide open shots.
(disclaimer - it’s not a knock on Talor, he just happens to be the example in the video)

2 - The babb foul looked harder that I originally thought.[/quote]

He was 5-11 from 3. Your point was?


#5
[quote="LPcreation, post:2, topic:499"]Two things..... [b]1 - That miss by Talor was a prime example of our shooting issues having nothing to do with our post play. We're missing a lot of wide open shots. (disclaimer - it's not a knock on Talor, he just happens to be the example in the video)[/b][/quote] He was 5-11 from 3. Your point was?

To illustrate we’re missing a lot of open shots. I get tired of you saying our guards aren’t shooting well because we have no inside play. My point is that our guards are getting a lot of good shots, regardless of the fact our inside game stinks right now. I almost didn’t post anything because I knew you would immediately think I was trashing Talor (don’t think that disclaimer was for anyone but you). Ridiculous.


#6
[quote="LPcreation, post:2, topic:499"]Two things..... [b]1 - That miss by Talor was a prime example of our shooting issues having nothing to do with our post play. We're missing a lot of wide open shots. (disclaimer - it's not a knock on Talor, he just happens to be the example in the video)[/b][/quote] He was 5-11 from 3. Your point was?

To illustrate we’re missing a lot of open shots. I get tired of you saying our guards aren’t shooting well because we have no inside play. My point is that our guards are getting a lot of good shots, regardless of the fact our inside game stinks right now. I almost didn’t post anything because I knew you would immediately think I was trashing Talor (don’t think that disclaimer was for anyone but you). Ridiculous.

He was 5-11 from 3. I think your evidence is anecdotal. What did it illustrate? IMO, the problem is shot selection. Look at us vs. Purdue:

3’s PSU, 63-205, 30.7%
Purdue, 57-174, 32.8%

If PSU shot 32.8%, we’d have 4 more 3’s, or 12 more points. Does that mean we’d be undefeated if we hit 4 more 3’s? Hardly.

Look at some non-3 stats.

FT’s
PSU 139-190, 73.2%
Purdue 163-214, 76.2%, 24 more points.

If we shot 76.2%, we have 5 more FTM’s. It’s not the percentage, it’s the volume of FTA’s that’s too low. You know who leads Purdue in FTA’s? Their center JaJuan Johnson with 54. Our starting center, Jones, has 18 FTA’s. Seems to me this indicates Purdue is getting the ball inside much more often.

Non-3 shots

Purdue 190-370, 380 points, 51.35%, 45 more points
PSU 165, 347, 335 points, 47.6%

So, PSU has 18 more points on 3’s than Purdue, but if they shot the same precentage as Purdue, they’d have 12 more points. On the other measures, we are trailing by a combined 69 points in 10 games. Purdue gets more inside baskets, shoots them better, possibly indicating more in the paint shots rather than 15’ jumpers, and the FTA’s indicate more in the paint play, or drives.

We don’t have to shoot the non-3 shots better than Purdue, nor do we have to shoot FTA’s better than Purdue to improve dramatically. We just have to get more inside the paint shots. If we shot the same percentages on both FTA’s and non-3’s as we did, but had Purdue’s quantity, we’d have 60 more points. If we shot the same amount of 3’s attempted as Purdue, and shot them as poorly as we have, we’d have 30 less points. If we did both these things, we might have one loss, UNCW. Not undefeated, but much better, and probably tourney bound, esp since Temple beat Nova.

BTW, we shot more overall shots than Purdue, 552 to 544, which means we have the ball as often, indicating somewhat we’re okay on TO’s and rebounding combined. We don’t need to take more shots. We don’t need to shoot better. We just need to take different shots, and get fouled more often doing so.

I’ll stick to my guns on this. I have to get to work. :wink:


#7

I don’t even know how to argue this. You went off on a huge, detailed tangent about nothing I said, or ever have said.

1 - I get tired of you saying we need more inside baskets TO FREE UP THE ARC. (or we need better inside play so guys have better looks which would lead to an increased percentage of made 3’s)

2 - I’ve routinely said we’re getting good looks and not making them. (meaning our lack of inside game is not to blame for our poor shooting).

Granted, this is only 1 out of A LOT of 3’s but since it was so readily available, I thought I’d comment on it.

It’s like you’re arguing with yourself. Have anyone ever said we don’t need more inside scoring? Has anyone ever argued with you when you say we need more inside scoring? Do you really think we don’t recognize the need for some points in the paint?

As to your PU comparison, I don’t think their offense is the reason they are so good.


#8

[quote=“kidcoyote, post:6, topic:499”]BTW, we shot more overall shots than Purdue, 552 to 544, which means we have the ball as often, indicating somewhat we’re okay on TO’s and rebounding combined. We don’t need to take more shots. We don’t need to shoot better. We just need to take different shots, and get fouled more often doing so.

I’ll stick to my guns on this. I have to get to work. ;)[/quote]

It could mean that but it doesn’t. In this case, it means we’ve played one more game but HAVEN’T gotten off as many shots per game as Purdue.

The right way to decide if rebounding and turnovers are a problem isn’t to compare our shots with Purdues, it’s to compare our shots with our opponents. We’ve taken 552 shots from the field, they’ve taken 551. That’s a wash but you can’t overlook the fact that we’ve taken 50 more foul shots than our opponents which is a very very good thing. That’s what would suggest that our rebounding and turnovers aren’t a problem.


#9

I also don’t understand why Purdue is the “baseline” for your comparison. Purdue is 213th in the country in 3 point shooting. Their strength is their defense, taking care of the ball, and inside game. Our strength is out guards. If we’re going to be really good (both this year and next year), we’re going to need to have our bigs hold their own inside and our guards win games for us. It’s just a fact of life, we don’t have a dominating inside presence and won’t next year either. My hope is that our inside guys step up enough to give us a chance to win, and our guards to seal the deal.


#10

That video also happens to show what I thought was the play of the game, or the play that really determined the game. What could’ve been a chance to take a 3 point lead there ends up a block and points going the other way.


#11

Here’s the article that goes with the video.

The point of the article is demonstrate the importance of having a “free safety” when your guards drive into the paint. He shows how one false move, in this case the safety man’s (I believe it was DJ) step toward the basket rather than a retreating back to play “D”, resulted in two points (and almost four) at the other end.

The Importance of the Safety in Transition Defense


#12

[quote=“LPcreation, post:7, topic:499”]I don’t even know how to argue this. You went off on a huge, detailed tangent about nothing I said, or ever have said.

1 - I get tired of you saying we need more inside baskets TO FREE UP THE ARC. (or we need better inside play so guys have better looks which would lead to an increased percentage of made 3’s)

2 - I’ve routinely said we’re getting good looks and not making them. (meaning our lack of inside game is not to blame for our poor shooting).

Granted, this is only 1 out of A LOT of 3’s but since it was so readily available, I thought I’d comment on it.

It’s like you’re arguing with yourself. Have anyone ever said we don’t need more inside scoring? Has anyone ever argued with you when you say we need more inside scoring? Do you really think we don’t recognize the need for some points in the paint?

As to your PU comparison, I don’t think their offense is the reason they are so good.[/quote]

It’s not a huge tangent. I disagree on the good looks. Chris Babb is not getting many great looks, IMO. Battle isn’t either. Most of his are off screens, where he’s dribbling. I just believe inside opens the outside. When you go north/south, rather than east/west, arc shooters can set their feet. Len Elmore talked about it. We are not doing that. It’s almost always east/west. Cornley received the ball down low all the time. Defenses collapsed, arc opened up. Look at how many times the shot clock violation went off on Sat, erroneously each time, but I think it demonstrated the difficulty in getting a good look. That’s what happens when you go east/west. You don’t agree, fine.


#13
[quote="LPcreation, post:7, topic:499"]I don't even know how to argue this. You went off on a huge, detailed tangent about nothing I said, or ever have said.

1 - I get tired of you saying we need more inside baskets TO FREE UP THE ARC. (or we need better inside play so guys have better looks which would lead to an increased percentage of made 3’s)

2 - I’ve routinely said we’re getting good looks and not making them. (meaning our lack of inside game is not to blame for our poor shooting).

Granted, this is only 1 out of A LOT of 3’s but since it was so readily available, I thought I’d comment on it.

It’s like you’re arguing with yourself. Have anyone ever said we don’t need more inside scoring? Has anyone ever argued with you when you say we need more inside scoring? Do you really think we don’t recognize the need for some points in the paint?

As to your PU comparison, I don’t think their offense is the reason they are so good.[/quote]

It’s not a huge tangent. I disagree on the good looks. Chris Babb is not getting many great looks, IMO. Battle isn’t either. Most of his are off screens, where he’s dribbling. I just believe inside opens the outside. When you go north/south, rather than east/west, arc shooters can set their feet. Len Elmore talked about it. We are not doing that. It’s almost always east/west. Cornley received the ball down low all the time. Defenses collapsed, arc opened up. Look at how many times the shot clock violation went off on Sat, erroneously each time, but I think it demonstrated the difficulty in getting a good look. That’s what happens when you go east/west. You don’t agree, fine.

I looked at the shots that we took and did find something very interesting.

Here’s a listing of all 65 shots that we took in the game (sorted by the length of the possession, longest first).

MISSED LAYUP by Ott,Andrew x 10:12 0:37 MISSED JUMPER by Brooks,Jeff x 18:12 0:36 MISSED 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 5:20 0:34 MISSED JUMPER by Jones,Andrew x 13:11 0:34 MISSED 3 PTR by Edwards,Bill x 0:02 0:31 MISSED LAYUP by Battle,Talor x 9:28 0:31 MISSED LAYUP by Edwards,Bill x 11:01 0:30 MISSED 3 PTR by Babb,Chris x 5:23 0:30 MISSED 3 PTR by Brooks,Jeff x 17:38 0:27 MISSED JUMPER by Edwards,Bill x 12:12 0:27 MISSED JUMPER by Ott,Andrew x 1:11 0:24 MISSED 3 PTR by Babb,Chris x 7:27 0:24 MISSED 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 9:15 0:23 GOOD! 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 19:05 0:22 GOOD! LAYUP by Jones,Andrew [PNT] x 16:31 0:22 MISSED LAYUP by Brooks,Jeff x 18:19 0:21 GOOD! 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 3:23 0:21 MISSED LAYUP by Jones,Andrew x 3:33 0:21 MISSED JUMPER by Babb,Chris x 0:56 0:21 MISSED 3 PTR by Woodyard,Cammeron x 1:39 0:21 MISSED 3 PTR by Woodyard,Cammeron x 7:51 0:21 GOOD! LAYUP by Battle,Talor [PNT] x 17:33 0:20 MISSED JUMPER by Battle,Talor x 19:07 0:19 MISSED 3 PTR by Jackson,David (DJ) x 6:59 0:19 MISSED 3 PTR by Edwards,Bill x 12:40 0:18 MISSED JUMPER by Brooks,Jeff x 3:55 0:18 MISSED 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 13:44 0:17 MISSED 3 PTR by Babb,Chris x 12:58 0:17 MISSED 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 1:17 0:17 MISSED LAYUP by Battle,Talor x 13:51 0:15 GOOD! 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 15:54 0:13 MISSED JUMPER by Jackson,David (DJ) x 10:05 0:13 MISSED JUMPER by Frazier,Tim x 4:48 0:13 MISSED JUMPER by Brooks,Jeff x 19:47 0:13 MISSED JUMPER by Frazier,Tim x 16:38 0:12 MISSED JUMPER by Jackson,David (DJ) x 4:22 0:11 GOOD! JUMPER by Edwards,Bill x 12:55 0:11 GOOD! 3 PTR by Jackson,David (DJ) x 15:26 0:11 GOOD! LAYUP by Battle,Talor [PNT] x 0:18 0:10 GOOD! 3 PTR by Battle,Talor [FB] x 6:19 0:10 GOOD! DUNK by Brooks,Jeff [FB/PNT] x 0:58 0:08 GOOD! 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 0:09 0:08 MISSED LAYUP by Battle,Talor x 18:53 0:08 MISSED LAYUP by Frazier,Tim x 12:24 0:08 GOOD! LAYUP by Battle,Talor [FB/PNT] x 6:38 0:07 MISSED 3 PTR by Babb,Chris x 11:43 0:07 MISSED LAYUP by Battle,Talor x 0:01 0:06 MISSED JUMPER by Frazier,Tim x 13:16 0:06 GOOD! LAYUP by Battle,Talor [FB/PNT] x 6:45 0:06 GOOD! TIP-IN by Ott,Andrew [PNT] x 12:19 0:05 GOOD! LAYUP by Battle,Talor [FB/PNT] x 9:12 0:05 MISSED 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 4:43 0:05 GOOD! JUMPER by Babb,Chris x 14:56 0:04 MISSED LAYUP by Battle,Talor x 9:38 0:04 MISSED 3 PTR by Babb,Chris x 8:20 0:04 GOOD! LAYUP by Frazier,Tim [FB/PNT] x 6:15 0:03 MISSED LAYUP by Battle,Talor x 4:40 0:03 GOOD! LAYUP by Battle,Talor [PNT] x 10:10 0:02 GOOD! DUNK by Battle,Talor [FB/PNT] x 9:04 0:02 GOOD! TIP-IN by Jackson,David (DJ) [PNT] x 12:10 0:02 GOOD! LAYUP by Jackson,David (DJ) [PNT] x 9:26 0:02 MISSED 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 12:39 0:01 MISSED LAYUP by Jackson,David (DJ) x 15:56 0:00 GOOD! 3 PTR by Jackson,David (DJ) x 15:56 0:00 MISSED LAYUP by Battle,Talor x 15:56 0:00

I apologize for the formatting but I’m not going to take the time to clean it up since I can make my point anyway.
The last two columns are the time on the clock and the elapsed time into the possession (a couple of those run over 35 seconds and look to be screwups by the clock operator - also the clock, at least the stat clock, appeared to stop for a while at the 15:56 mark and there’s a couple of zero second possessions).

Here’s what’s amazing. When I divide our possessions into thirds, we didn’t make a single shot during any possession that ran into the final third, i.e. we were 0 for 12 from 24 seconds on. In the middle third, we were 5 for 22. But in those first 12 seconds of a possession, we were 17 for 31.

If that isn’t evidence that we should be running more (and that our half court offense sucks), I don’t know what is.


#14

[quote=“UncleLar, post:13, topic:499”]I looked at the shots that we took and did find something very interesting.

Here’s a listing of all 65 shots that we took in the game (sorted by the length of the possession, longest first).

MISSED LAYUP by Ott,Andrew x 10:12 0:37 MISSED JUMPER by Brooks,Jeff x 18:12 0:36 MISSED 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 5:20 0:34 MISSED JUMPER by Jones,Andrew x 13:11 0:34 MISSED 3 PTR by Edwards,Bill x 0:02 0:31 MISSED LAYUP by Battle,Talor x 9:28 0:31 MISSED LAYUP by Edwards,Bill x 11:01 0:30 MISSED 3 PTR by Babb,Chris x 5:23 0:30 MISSED 3 PTR by Brooks,Jeff x 17:38 0:27 MISSED JUMPER by Edwards,Bill x 12:12 0:27 MISSED JUMPER by Ott,Andrew x 1:11 0:24 MISSED 3 PTR by Babb,Chris x 7:27 0:24 MISSED 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 9:15 0:23 GOOD! 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 19:05 0:22 GOOD! LAYUP by Jones,Andrew [PNT] x 16:31 0:22 MISSED LAYUP by Brooks,Jeff x 18:19 0:21 GOOD! 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 3:23 0:21 MISSED LAYUP by Jones,Andrew x 3:33 0:21 MISSED JUMPER by Babb,Chris x 0:56 0:21 MISSED 3 PTR by Woodyard,Cammeron x 1:39 0:21 MISSED 3 PTR by Woodyard,Cammeron x 7:51 0:21 GOOD! LAYUP by Battle,Talor [PNT] x 17:33 0:20 MISSED JUMPER by Battle,Talor x 19:07 0:19 MISSED 3 PTR by Jackson,David (DJ) x 6:59 0:19 MISSED 3 PTR by Edwards,Bill x 12:40 0:18 MISSED JUMPER by Brooks,Jeff x 3:55 0:18 MISSED 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 13:44 0:17 MISSED 3 PTR by Babb,Chris x 12:58 0:17 MISSED 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 1:17 0:17 MISSED LAYUP by Battle,Talor x 13:51 0:15 GOOD! 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 15:54 0:13 MISSED JUMPER by Jackson,David (DJ) x 10:05 0:13 MISSED JUMPER by Frazier,Tim x 4:48 0:13 MISSED JUMPER by Brooks,Jeff x 19:47 0:13 MISSED JUMPER by Frazier,Tim x 16:38 0:12 MISSED JUMPER by Jackson,David (DJ) x 4:22 0:11 GOOD! JUMPER by Edwards,Bill x 12:55 0:11 GOOD! 3 PTR by Jackson,David (DJ) x 15:26 0:11 GOOD! LAYUP by Battle,Talor [PNT] x 0:18 0:10 GOOD! 3 PTR by Battle,Talor [FB] x 6:19 0:10 GOOD! DUNK by Brooks,Jeff [FB/PNT] x 0:58 0:08 GOOD! 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 0:09 0:08 MISSED LAYUP by Battle,Talor x 18:53 0:08 MISSED LAYUP by Frazier,Tim x 12:24 0:08 GOOD! LAYUP by Battle,Talor [FB/PNT] x 6:38 0:07 MISSED 3 PTR by Babb,Chris x 11:43 0:07 MISSED LAYUP by Battle,Talor x 0:01 0:06 MISSED JUMPER by Frazier,Tim x 13:16 0:06 GOOD! LAYUP by Battle,Talor [FB/PNT] x 6:45 0:06 GOOD! TIP-IN by Ott,Andrew [PNT] x 12:19 0:05 GOOD! LAYUP by Battle,Talor [FB/PNT] x 9:12 0:05 MISSED 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 4:43 0:05 GOOD! JUMPER by Babb,Chris x 14:56 0:04 MISSED LAYUP by Battle,Talor x 9:38 0:04 MISSED 3 PTR by Babb,Chris x 8:20 0:04 GOOD! LAYUP by Frazier,Tim [FB/PNT] x 6:15 0:03 MISSED LAYUP by Battle,Talor x 4:40 0:03 GOOD! LAYUP by Battle,Talor [PNT] x 10:10 0:02 GOOD! DUNK by Battle,Talor [FB/PNT] x 9:04 0:02 GOOD! TIP-IN by Jackson,David (DJ) [PNT] x 12:10 0:02 GOOD! LAYUP by Jackson,David (DJ) [PNT] x 9:26 0:02 MISSED 3 PTR by Battle,Talor x 12:39 0:01 MISSED LAYUP by Jackson,David (DJ) x 15:56 0:00 GOOD! 3 PTR by Jackson,David (DJ) x 15:56 0:00 MISSED LAYUP by Battle,Talor x 15:56 0:00

I apologize for the formatting but I’m not going to take the time to clean it up since I can make my point anyway.
The last two columns are the time on the clock and the elapsed time into the possession (a couple of those run over 35 seconds and look to be screwups by the clock operator - also the clock, at least the stat clock, appeared to stop for a while at the 15:56 mark and there’s a couple of zero second possessions).

Here’s what’s amazing. When I divide our possessions into thirds, we didn’t make a single shot during any possession that ran into the final third, i.e. we were 0 for 12 from 24 seconds on. In the middle third, we were 5 for 22. But in those first 12 seconds of a possession, we were 17 for 31.

If that isn’t evidence that we should be running more (and that our half court offense sucks), I don’t know what is.[/quote]

Good work, Lar, and I agree that the half court offense sucks. But there’s one problem with your solution. You can’t run after a basket or a made FT. So, that’s maybe 25 to 40 times per game where you can’t break. Soooo, need to improve the 1/2 court offense. No gettin’ away from it. It’s the scheme in the 1/2 court which doesn’t work. This is not hard, or should not be hard to fix.

I see my karma is in now in the red. Hmmm…disagree with people, make a legitimate case, but you get negative karma. I guess children will be children.


#15

Instead of running more, why not try improving our half court offense?

I think anyone who watches the games can see that we go into a clear-out type play almost immediately when our first look isn’t there. Why are we so quick to pull out of the “offense” and go 1 v 1 all game long?

I think with as inconsistent as our defense can be at times, we’re better off trying to take more shots in the last 3rd than just keep chucking up quick shots. Then again, if we’re going to make over 50 percent of them no matter how many we take, I guess I can’t argue with that strategy.


#16

I am not speaking to you specifically but to the karma woes that people sometimes have.

I do believe that personality plays into it. You can have a good point, be correct, all that, and people might not like something about your online persona. So you get whacked.

I sometimes get the feeling that people think others are rationally measuring out their karma points. Somehow, I doubt it. :wink:


#17
[quote="kidcoyote, post:14, topic:499"]I see my karma is in now in the red. Hmmm...disagree with people, make a legitimate case, but you get negative karma. I guess children will be children.[/quote]

I am not speaking to you specifically but to the karma woes that people sometimes have.

I do believe that personality plays into it. You can have a good point, be correct, all that, and people might not like something about your online persona. So you get whacked.

I sometimes get the feeling that people think others are rationally measuring out their karma points. Somehow, I doubt it. :wink:

Good points.


#18

[quote=“Craftsy21, post:15, topic:499”]Instead of running more, why not try improving our half court offense?

I think anyone who watches the games can see that we go into a clear-out type play almost immediately when our first look isn’t there.
Why are we so quick to pull out of the “offense” and go 1 v 1 all game long?

I think with as inconsistent as our defense can be at times, we’re better off trying to take more shots in the last 3rd than just keep chucking up quick shots. Then again, if we’re going to make over 50 percent of them no matter how many we take, I guess I can’t argue with that strategy.[/quote]

That is what I alluded to in another thread. It worked last year because we had three players who could all make plays for themselves. This year we have one. When that one is really hot – see UVA and VaTech – we might have a shot at beating live teams. If not, then we will be in trouble. It seems like the half court offense is to run a set and then fall back to the high ball screen if that isn’t there. With this group, maybe there need to be more motion offense principles/rules installed, or a continuity that by the nature of the offense will free other players up for scoring opportunities.

Yes, Cornely received the ball more last year than our bigs are now, but often times it was far away from the block. He just had the skill set and strength to make an individual play and get to the bucket or finish with a jump hook. Unfortunately, I have yet to see any of our big men prove they will be productive if we slam the ball down into the post on a routine basis.

I think we try to run as much as we can, but effective transition can be difficult to generate.


#19

Don’t tell that to Tom Izzo. Blink and his guys will be taking a layup down at the other end.


#20
Good work, Lar, and I agree that the half court offense sucks. But there's one problem with your solution.[b] You can't run after a basket or a made FT[/b]. So, that's maybe 25 to 40 times per game where you can't break. Soooo, need to improve the 1/2 court offense. No gettin' away from it. It's the scheme in the 1/2 court which doesn't work. This is not hard, or should not be hard to fix.

Don’t tell that to Tom Izzo. Blink and his guys will be taking a layup down at the other end.


How about after timeouts? :wink: For those alone developing a better halfcourt game is critical.

You really uncovered something with that analysis. I think it nails the problems we have on offense. We have our opinions on solutions.