Chicken or the egg


#1

Serious question. I noticed Duke is hosting Tulsa tonight and they are on ESPN2. Nice paycheck. Out of conference game. I noticed Duke was on ESPN a few weeks ago against Georgetown.
The question is “Does ESPN and Duke discuss a TV game/contract on these dates BEFORE they actually schedule the game?”

.


#2

[quote=“tundra, post:1, topic:888”]Serious question. I noticed Duke is hosting Tulsa tonight and they are on ESPN2. Nice paycheck. Out of conference game. I noticed Duke was on ESPN a few weeks ago against Georgetown.
The question is “Does ESPN and Duke discuss a TV game/contract on these dates BEFORE they actually schedule the game?”

. [/quote]

Sometimes but not always.


#3

I thought this thread was going to be PSU related – on a subject from other threads. Two common themes:

  1. If PSU wins games, better players will come.

  2. If PSU gets better players, they will win games.

Which statement is more accurate?

Don’t want to change the subject, but this is more what I expected from the chicken or the egg title.


#4

[quote=“mjg, post:3, topic:888”]I thought this thread was going to be PSU related – on a subject from other threads. Two common themes:

  1. If PSU wins games, better players will come.

  2. If PSU gets better players, they will win games.

Which statement is more accurate?

Don’t want to change the subject, but this is more what I expected from the chicken or the egg title.[/quote]
OK, I’ll bite. I think #2 is usually first. It is hard to win (semi-regularly) in a good conference without good players. Sometimes things click for one season with out real good across the board talent. Then the team sinks the next year.
That is why “being a good recruiter” is paramount for a college coach. A good SALEMAN/recruiter can “build a program” by offering “opportunity” to be a instant starter/star on a major conference stage. I believe it “can be done” and I believe it “can be done” at PSU. Remember today’s star coaches were yesterday’s nobodies. These coaches BUILT programs at lesser schools before they received the big money jobs.
Thus, again, my answer is #2.


#5

One more thing. Our present coach has recruited 2 pretty good players from Texas. Why, did they come to PSU from across the country? The final answer is that Ed SOLD them on the good points about playing at PSU.


#6
[quote="mjg, post:3, topic:888"]I thought this thread was going to be PSU related -- on a subject from other threads. Two common themes:
  1. If PSU wins games, better players will come.

  2. If PSU gets better players, they will win games.

Which statement is more accurate?

Don’t want to change the subject, but this is more what I expected from the chicken or the egg title.[/quote]
OK, I’ll bite. I think #2 is usually first. It is hard to win (semi-regularly) in a good conference without good players. Sometimes things click for one season with out real good across the board talent. Then the team sinks the next year.
That is why “being a good recruiter” is paramount for a college coach. A good SALEMAN/recruiter can “build a program” by offering “opportunity” to be a instant starter/star on a major conference stage. I believe it “can be done” and I believe it “can be done” at PSU. Remember today’s star coaches were yesterday’s nobodies. These coaches BUILT programs at lesser schools before they received the big money jobs.
Thus, again, my answer is #2.

Regarding #2, a few around here have said that this is the most talented team PSU has had in a long time. Well where are the wins?

I think if you look at the 2 options, #1 is about coaching. If you make the most of what you have, you’re going to win some games that on paper you had no business winning. And your going to put a competitive product on the court. And that is going to impress. Didn’t Lisicky say he commited to PSU in part due to that PSU vs Indiana game?

#2 is obviously all about the recruiting. Isn’t history littered with teams with tons of talent that underachived greatly?


#7

They wanted to see snow? Just kidding. Ed has been going to some extents to get kids.


#8

Probably had something to do with they are flawed basketball players and we were they only high major team interested in them. I know Babb had Iowa as well but at the time we probably more stable of program. Frazier was pretty much a mid-major recruit mainly I am going to guess because of his size. Now they are is nothing wrong with getting these types of kids but you cant have a whole roster of these types and win at this level.


#9
[quote="tundra, post:5, topic:888"]One more thing. Our present coach has recruited 2 pretty good players from Texas. Why, did they come to PSU from across the country? The final answer is that Ed SOLD them on the good points about playing at PSU.[/quote]

Probably had something to do with they are flawed basketball players and we were they only high major team interested in them. I know Babb had Iowa as well but at the time we probably more stable of program. Frazier was pretty much a mid-major recruit mainly I am going to guess because of his size. Now they are is nothing wrong with getting these types of kids but you cant have a whole roster of these types and win at this level.

Flawed basketball players? I didn’t realize there was a group of perfect basketball players out there we should’ve been pulling from instead.

For the record, according to scout: Babb had offers from Iowa, Iowa State, Bradley, New Mexico, North Texas, TCU, and Tulsa. Not exactly Duke, but not exactly garbage programs either. And Frazier’s offers were from Stanford, Santa Clara, Penn, Rice, Harvard, and Colorado State.

Seems like all these programs are okay with flawed players, also.


#10
[quote="tundra, post:5, topic:888"]One more thing. Our present coach has recruited 2 pretty good players from Texas. Why, did they come to PSU from across the country? The final answer is that Ed SOLD them on the good points about playing at PSU.[/quote]

Probably had something to do with they are flawed basketball players and we were they only high major team interested in them. I know Babb had Iowa as well but at the time we probably more stable of program. Frazier was pretty much a mid-major recruit mainly I am going to guess because of his size. Now they are is nothing wrong with getting these types of kids but you cant have a whole roster of these types and win at this level.

Flawed basketball players? I didn’t realize there was a group of perfect basketball players out there we should’ve been pulling from instead.

For the record, according to scout: Babb had offers from Iowa, Iowa State, Bradley, New Mexico, North Texas, TCU, and Tulsa. Not exactly Duke, but not exactly garbage programs either. And Frazier’s offers were from Stanford, Santa Clara, Penn, Rice, Harvard, and Colorado State.

Seems like all these programs are okay with flawed players, also.

I guess flawed was the wrong word, maybe one dimensional offense would have been a better term to use for them.
What part of Frazier being a mostly mid-major did you not get other Stanford (probably came from Trent Johnson) and PSU the rest are mid-majors, yes offers are important but sometimes just because he was offered doesn’t mean the program in the end wanted him and teams do cool off on guys and scholarships are filled up as well.


#11

Just think you’re seriously underestimating the types of players Fraizer and Babb are. Neither is a star just yet, but how many 3-star guys are stars by this point in both their careers? They both are doing just fine by my measure, with promising years ahead of them.

Both are great athletes for us also, something that wasn’t exactly the norm just a few short years ago.


#12

[quote=“Craftsy21, post:11, topic:888”]Just think you’re seriously underestimating the types of players Fraizer and Babb are. Neither is a star just yet, but how many 3-star guys are stars by this point in both their careers? They both are doing just fine by my measure, with promising years ahead of them.

Both are great athletes for us also, something that wasn’t exactly the norm just a few short years ago.[/quote]

Disagree - at this point, Babb and Frazier are only spot rotation players on an NCAA tournament team. They both have HUGE weaknesses in their game - Babb can’t dribble and Frazier can’t shoot.

I’m expecting both of them to lose a large percentage of their minutes next season on Buie.


#13
Just think you're seriously underestimating the types of players Fraizer and Babb are. Neither is a star just yet, but how many 3-star guys are stars by this point in both their careers? They both are doing just fine by my measure, with promising years ahead of them.

Both are great athletes for us also, something that wasn’t exactly the norm just a few short years ago.

Disagree - at this point, Babb and Frazier are only spot rotation players on an NCAA tournament team. They both have HUGE weaknesses in their game - Babb can’t dribble and Frazier can’t shoot.

I’m expecting both of them to lose a large percentage of their minutes next season on Buie.


So does this make Buie the second coming?

And here I thought Talor was supposed to be the Savior? :wink:


#14
[quote="Craftsy21, post:11, topic:888"]Just think you're seriously underestimating the types of players Fraizer and Babb are. Neither is a star just yet, but how many 3-star guys are stars by this point in both their careers? They both are doing just fine by my measure, with promising years ahead of them.

Both are great athletes for us also, something that wasn’t exactly the norm just a few short years ago.[/quote]

Disagree - at this point, Babb and Frazier are only spot rotation players on an NCAA tournament team. They both have HUGE weaknesses in their game - Babb can’t dribble and Frazier can’t shoot.

I’m expecting both of them to lose a large percentage of their minutes next season on Buie.


So does this make Buie the second coming?

And here I thought Talor was supposed to be the Savior? :wink:

Haha :slight_smile:

Babb can’t drive and Frazier can’t shoot -I’m banking on Buie being able to do a combo of both…of course, given ED’s track record, he may end up being a marginal D1 player… :slight_smile:


#15

[quote=“FanofPSU, post:12, topic:888”]Disagree - at this point, Babb and Frazier are only spot rotation players on an NCAA tournament team. They both have HUGE weaknesses in their game - Babb can’t dribble and Frazier can’t shoot.

I’m expecting both of them to lose a large percentage of their minutes next season on Buie.[/quote]

It’s a freaking freshman and a sophmore for crying out loud.

Babb’s handle is fine. He just can’t penetrate. Diebler (a much more heralded recruit) didn’t start out his career so hot either. Plus, Babb is the best defensive player on the team.

Frazier is a freshman who is still adjusting ot the game. Can we at least wait until he’s had 1 season of college hoops before writing him off? He DOES need to shoot the ball but he can do other things well. Give him a little time.


#16
[quote="FanofPSU, post:12, topic:888"]Disagree - at this point, Babb and Frazier are only spot rotation players on an NCAA tournament team. They both have HUGE weaknesses in their game - Babb can't dribble and Frazier can't shoot.

I’m expecting both of them to lose a large percentage of their minutes next season on Buie.[/quote]

It’s a freaking freshman and a sophmore for crying out loud.

Babb’s handle is fine. He just can’t penetrate. Diebler (a much more heralded recruit) didn’t start out his career so hot either. Plus, Babb is the best defensive player on the team.

Frazier is a freshman who is still adjusting ot the game. Can we at least wait until he’s had 1 season of college hoops before writing him off? He DOES need to shoot the ball but he can do other things well. Give him a little time.


And if I am not mistaken Babb was getting all kinds of crap at the beginning of last year for his D and by the end of last year he was pretty good. Now like has been already said he is among the best defenders on the team. Which proves he is working on his game. Give the kids time to develop, I think we will be pretty impressed next year.

#17

It’s obvious that Frazier isn’t comfortable shooting threes, however he is hitting 41% behind the arc this season (only 22 attempts though). I’m sure that he’ll spend every day between now and next season working on his range, and I’m hopeful that he can get to the point where he can at least keep other teams honest from the outside. Look at someone like Geary Claxton. His freshman season, he was 9-30 beyond the arc. He never developed a deadly 3 point shot or anything, but it was enough to keep defenders honest and gave him a better opportunity to blow by them when they closed. I’m hoping for much the same from Frazier.