Boeheim nails what the root of our problems is


#1

From the NY Times article “Football, Not Basketball, Could Determine the Future of the Big East”

[i]Boeheim said that players in recruiting hotbeds like New York, Philadelphia and Washington, the lifeblood markets for Big East universities, probably would not find playing in a Midwest-dominated league appealing.

“Say a couple schools go to the Big Ten,” Boeheim said. “Who’s to say a New York City kid would want to go there? There’s no logical reason for that kid to want to do that. But someone with a big ego in a football conference is taking over. I just don’t think it helps recruiting to be in the Big Ten.”[/i]


#2

Well I doubt very much that a couple of more eastern teams in the Big Ten will make things worse so this is old news in that regard. So no way would it be a negative. It would be worth it to see Syracuse come in just to see Boeheim cry about it.


#3

[quote=“UncleLar, post:1, topic:1133”]From the NY Times article “Football, Not Basketball, Could Determine the Future of the Big East”

[i]Boeheim said that players in recruiting hotbeds like New York, Philadelphia and Washington, the lifeblood markets for Big East universities, probably would not find playing in a Midwest-dominated league appealing.

“Say a couple schools go to the Big Ten,” Boeheim said. “Who’s to say a New York City kid would want to go there? There’s no logical reason for that kid to want to do that. But someone with a big ego in a football conference is taking over. I just don’t think it helps recruiting to be in the Big Ten.”[/i][/quote]

Lar, you’ve made the case that PSU is an eastern school in a midwest conference. Okay, agreed. For Big East schools, I agree with Boeheim. But that doesn’t follow that PSU can’t recruit. PSU is not a Big East school. Florida’s not a Big East school, nor is Kentucky, and they get out of state kids, some even from those areas.


#4

[quote=“UncleLar, post:1, topic:1133”]From the NY Times article “Football, Not Basketball, Could Determine the Future of the Big East”

But someone with a big ego in a football conference is taking over.”[/quote]So, is this a shot at Joe, Delaney or someone else?

I can’t say that I disagree with him basketballwise tho. I can definitely see Rutgers & UConn joining the B10. Pitt, Syr, WVU and USF joining the ACC. And the Big East reverting to a non-football conference. If it happens I’ll be jealous of Pitt. As good as the B10 is I’d still rather go to an away game at an ACC school than a B10 school due to proximity and weather.


#5
[quote="UncleLar, post:1, topic:1133"]From the NY Times article [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/sports/ncaafootball/25bigeast.html?ref=ncaabasketball]"Football, Not Basketball, Could Determine the Future of the Big East"[/url]

[i]Boeheim said that players in recruiting hotbeds like New York, Philadelphia and Washington, the lifeblood markets for Big East universities, probably would not find playing in a Midwest-dominated league appealing.

“Say a couple schools go to the Big Ten,” Boeheim said. “Who’s to say a New York City kid would want to go there? There’s no logical reason for that kid to want to do that. But someone with a big ego in a football conference is taking over. I just don’t think it helps recruiting to be in the Big Ten.”[/i][/quote]

Lar, you’ve made the case that PSU is an eastern school in a midwest conference. Okay, agreed. For Big East schools, I agree with Boeheim. But that doesn’t follow that PSU can’t recruit. PSU is not a Big East school. Florida’s not a Big East school, nor is Kentucky, and they get out of state kids, some even from those areas.

Kid, Florida and Kentucky are awful schools to use in this comparison. One has recent back2back championships and warm weather. The other is one of the top 3 all time men’s hoop schools along with UCLA and Kansas.

You’d be better off using a school like Colorado. They are the farthest west and 2nd farthest north in the B12. Denver isn’t a HS hoops hotbed of talent. No major hoops history. etc. Only 3 instate kids on their roster. 3 Cali, 2 Australia, 2 Ill, 1 each from MO, TX, ND, KS.


#6

I found Boeheim’s quote here to be very interesting:

“I don’t think we’ll do well in the Big Ten. It’s possible, but I don’t think we’d do well at all. I just don’t see how Syracuse or Rutgers fits in with Iowa and Illinois.”


#7

[quote=“UncleLar, post:1, topic:1133”]From the NY Times article “Football, Not Basketball, Could Determine the Future of the Big East”

[i]Boeheim said that players in recruiting hotbeds like New York, Philadelphia and Washington, the lifeblood markets for Big East universities, probably would not find playing in a Midwest-dominated league appealing.

“Say a couple schools go to the Big Ten,” Boeheim said. “Who’s to say a New York City kid would want to go there? There’s no logical reason for that kid to want to do that. But someone with a big ego in a football conference is taking over. I just don’t think it helps recruiting to be in the Big Ten.”[/i][/quote]

Here’s the odd thing about that statement…

Probably, the majority of Penn State’s fan base and alum are in those areas (New York, Philadelphia and Washington).

So, if this is indeed a true statement, doesn’t that mean that Penn State, itself, is in the wrong conference?


#8

I agree. Syracuse doesn’t fit in with IA or IL, but they do with DePaul, Marquette, Louisville, and South Florida. He must not be talking strictly about geography. He has recruited nationally at Syracuse. I think that would probably continue in the Big 10.


#9

When I think of Boewhein…I can’t get past watching Derrick F…ing Coleman walk up and down the court with his jersey out of his pants. Neither of these 2 are worth another thought.


#10

[quote=“UncleLar, post:1, topic:1133”]From the NY Times article “Football, Not Basketball, Could Determine the Future of the Big East”

[i]Boeheim said that players in recruiting hotbeds like New York, Philadelphia and Washington, the lifeblood markets for Big East universities, probably would not find playing in a Midwest-dominated league appealing.

“Say a couple schools go to the Big Ten,” Boeheim said. “Who’s to say a New York City kid would want to go there? There’s no logical reason for that kid to want to do that. But someone with a big ego in a football conference is taking over. I just don’t think it helps recruiting to be in the Big Ten.”[/i][/quote]

If a couple of Big East schools join the Big Ten, the Big East probably won’t exist for football anymore. So the rest of the schools will join the ACC and Conference USA (or become independant). So why would a NYC kid want to play in a Carolina dominated conference (or whatever the case is for CUSA) any more than he’d want to play in a Mid-West dominated conference? His argument works for PSU basketball – for now. If the Big East fails to remain a conference for basketball as well as football, then PSU might become more appealing.

EDIT: Additionally, our football team doesn’t seem to have a problem getting kids from Maryland (a Mid-Atlantic state with strong ACC ties) to play in a Mid-West dominated football conference. I know the ACC used to be a basketball conference (or was thought of that way), but they have VaTech, Florida State and Miami – which are football powers. So I’m not sure JimBo has much of a valid point – for the traditional powers anyway.


#11

[quote=“UncleLar, post:1, topic:1133”]From the NY Times article “Football, Not Basketball, Could Determine the Future of the Big East”

[i]Boeheim said that players in recruiting hotbeds like New York, Philadelphia and Washington, the lifeblood markets for Big East universities, probably would not find playing in a Midwest-dominated league appealing.

“Say a couple schools go to the Big Ten,” Boeheim said. “Who’s to say a New York City kid would want to go there? There’s no logical reason for that kid to want to do that. But someone with a big ego in a football conference is taking over. I just don’t think it helps recruiting to be in the Big Ten.”[/i][/quote]
Just more propaganda being pushed forth from apologists like Uncle Lar looking to promote excuses after excuse why the basketball program can’t win.

This time, trot out some more crap from the same guy who was quoted as making similar asinine comments back in 1990. In fact, there was even a thread started about these comments recently.

Anyone with half a brain should be able to recognize the fear oozing from these comments. Boeheim is afraid that either his school will bolt to a better conference, or that many of the top programs will bolt, leaving his Orangemen as the best team in a crappy conference, like Memphis in CUSA. His statements are a precursor to his own survival, not some prescient insight to the inner workings of the Big Ten. Boeheim has had critical comments for Big Ten basketball since 1990, what makes anyone think he would have an enlightened opinion 20 years later?

Congratulations Uncle Lar. You have resurrected the apologist mantra and anointed Jim Boeheim as your spokesperson of the week. ::slight_smile:


#12
[quote="UncleLar, post:1, topic:1133"]From the NY Times article [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/sports/ncaafootball/25bigeast.html?ref=ncaabasketball]"Football, Not Basketball, Could Determine the Future of the Big East"[/url]

[i]Boeheim said that players in recruiting hotbeds like New York, Philadelphia and Washington, the lifeblood markets for Big East universities, probably would not find playing in a Midwest-dominated league appealing.

“Say a couple schools go to the Big Ten,” Boeheim said. “Who’s to say a New York City kid would want to go there? There’s no logical reason for that kid to want to do that. But someone with a big ego in a football conference is taking over. I just don’t think it helps recruiting to be in the Big Ten.”[/i][/quote]
Just more propaganda being pushed forth from apologists like Uncle Lar looking to promote excuses after excuse why the basketball program can’t win.

This time, trot out some more crap from the same guy who was quoted as making similar asinine comments back in 1990. In fact, there was even a thread started about these comments recently.

Anyone with half a brain should be able to recognize the fear oozing from these comments. Boeheim is afraid that either his school will bolt to a better conference, or that many of the top programs will bolt, leaving his Orangemen as the best team in a crappy conference, like Memphis in CUSA. His statements are a precursor to his own survival, not some prescient insight to the inner workings of the Big Ten. Boeheim has had critical comments for Big Ten basketball since 1990, what makes anyone think he would have an enlightened opinion 20 years later?

Congratulations Uncle Lar. You have resurrected the apologist mantra and anointed Jim Boeheim as your spokesperson of the week. ::slight_smile:

Anyone who doesn’t think that our recruiting suffers by being in the Big Ten is either in denial or has an agenda.

And nothing that has happened in the almost twenty years since we’ve joined the Big Ten has proven Boeheim’s prediction to be wrong.


#13
[quote="UncleLar, post:1, topic:1133"]From the NY Times article [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/sports/ncaafootball/25bigeast.html?ref=ncaabasketball]"Football, Not Basketball, Could Determine the Future of the Big East"[/url]

[i]Boeheim said that players in recruiting hotbeds like New York, Philadelphia and Washington, the lifeblood markets for Big East universities, probably would not find playing in a Midwest-dominated league appealing.

“Say a couple schools go to the Big Ten,” Boeheim said. “Who’s to say a New York City kid would want to go there? There’s no logical reason for that kid to want to do that. But someone with a big ego in a football conference is taking over. I just don’t think it helps recruiting to be in the Big Ten.”[/i][/quote]

Lar, you’ve made the case that PSU is an eastern school in a midwest conference. Okay, agreed. For Big East schools, I agree with Boeheim. But that doesn’t follow that PSU can’t recruit. PSU is not a Big East school. Florida’s not a Big East school, nor is Kentucky, and they get out of state kids, some even from those areas.

Kid, Florida and Kentucky are awful schools to use in this comparison. One has recent back2back championships and warm weather. The other is one of the top 3 all time men’s hoop schools along with UCLA and Kansas.

You’d be better off using a school like Colorado. They are the farthest west and 2nd farthest north in the B12. Denver isn’t a HS hoops hotbed of talent. No major hoops history. etc. Only 3 instate kids on their roster. 3 Cali, 2 Australia, 2 Ill, 1 each from MO, TX, ND, KS.

Florida didn’t win back to back championships before Donovan went there. Nobody said it was easy recruiting. Donovan created what the school now has. All people want is a coach who can recruit well enough to compete in the Big 10. Otherwise, do 1 of 2 things: get a coach who can or drop back into a conference in which you can compete, like the A10, MAAC, etc…but let’s stop with the excuses. Win, or do something different. But stop the excuses. It’s a loser attitude. You think it’s easy for Seton Hall or Rutgers or Marquette? BC? Come on. Life is difficult. Get it done or move on. Not a national championship, nobody’s asking for that. But not an embarassing, last place finish 4 of 7 years. That should be unacceptable. And the OOC losses show such an unpreparedness. The team barely beat a Curry-less Davidson. The announcer actually said, “PSU is lucky they’re athletic, cause they look lost out there.”


#14
[quote="UncleLar, post:1, topic:1133"]From the NY Times article [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/sports/ncaafootball/25bigeast.html?ref=ncaabasketball]"Football, Not Basketball, Could Determine the Future of the Big East"[/url]

[i]Boeheim said that players in recruiting hotbeds like New York, Philadelphia and Washington, the lifeblood markets for Big East universities, probably would not find playing in a Midwest-dominated league appealing.

“Say a couple schools go to the Big Ten,” Boeheim said. “Who’s to say a New York City kid would want to go there? There’s no logical reason for that kid to want to do that. But someone with a big ego in a football conference is taking over. I just don’t think it helps recruiting to be in the Big Ten.”[/i][/quote]

Lar, you’ve made the case that PSU is an eastern school in a midwest conference. Okay, agreed. For Big East schools, I agree with Boeheim. But that doesn’t follow that PSU can’t recruit. PSU is not a Big East school. Florida’s not a Big East school, nor is Kentucky, and they get out of state kids, some even from those areas.

Kid, Florida and Kentucky are awful schools to use in this comparison. One has recent back2back championships and warm weather. The other is one of the top 3 all time men’s hoop schools along with UCLA and Kansas.

You’d be better off using a school like Colorado. They are the farthest west and 2nd farthest north in the B12. Denver isn’t a HS hoops hotbed of talent. No major hoops history. etc. Only 3 instate kids on their roster. 3 Cali, 2 Australia, 2 Ill, 1 each from MO, TX, ND, KS.

Florida didn’t win back to back championships before Donovan went there. Nobody said it was easy recruiting. Donovan created what the school now has. All people want is a coach who can recruit well enough to compete in the Big 10. Otherwise, do 1 of 2 things: get a coach who can or drop back into a conference in which you can compete, like the A10, MAAC, etc…but let’s stop with the excuses. Win, or do something different. But stop the excuses. It’s a loser attitude. You think it’s easy for Seton Hall or Rutgers or Marquette? BC? Come on. Life is difficult. Get it done or move on. Not a national championship, nobody’s asking for that. But not an embarassing, last place finish 4 of 7 years. That should be unacceptable. And the OOC losses show such an unpreparedness. The team barely beat a Curry-less Davidson. The announcer actually said, “PSU is lucky they’re athletic, cause they look lost out there.”

Donovan took over at Florida in 1996. Two years earlier they had been in the Final Four, so don’t try to claim the program was some sort of long time loser when he took over.


#15

Larry, Penn State has never had a salesman running its men’s basketball team. Shoe salesmen, yeah. But not a big-profile guy who loved to talk, loved to pitch the program, enjoyed rallying the students and relished the whole promotion of the school and the team. Not even anyone close. The last guy with anything resembling a big personality was Dick Harter and that was before ESPN! Until it hires somebody who really likes to recruit and sell, you can’t say what Penn State’s ceiling is. Which means you can’t say being an Eastern school in a Midwestern league is necessarily The Problem.

I, for one, gotta side completely with Spike on this. (Not his smart-ass approach, just his point.)
Especially the part about Boeheim. I couldn’t have said it better myself. He’s at the point now where he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about any of it, anyway, except maybe maintaining the status quo. He dragged his feet and whined about the ACC proposal. Now, he’s doing the same thing with the Big Ten chatter. You can’t even count his comments as valid because he has a personal agenda.


#16

[quote=“djones, post:15, topic:1133”]Larry, Penn State has never had a salesman running its men’s basketball team. Shoe salesmen, yeah. But not a big-profile guy who loved to talk, loved to pitch the program, enjoyed rallying the students and relished the whole promotion of the school and the team. Not even anyone close. The last guy with anything resembling a big personality was Dick Harter and that was before ESPN! Until it hires somebody who really likes to recruit and sell, you can’t say what Penn State’s ceiling is. Which means you can’t say being an Eastern school in a Midwestern league is necessarily The Problem.

I, for one, gotta side completely with Spike on this. (Not his smart-ass approach, just his point.)
Especially the part about Boeheim. I couldn’t have said it better myself. He’s at the point now where he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about any of it, anyway, except maybe maintaining the status quo. He dragged his feet and whined about the ACC proposal. Now, he’s doing the same thing with the Big Ten chatter. You can’t even count his comments as valid because he has a personal agenda.[/quote]
I have to agree with Dave on this one. Maybe ED and JD have the ability to really turn it on when meeting with recruits. In college athletics charisma is probably more important than X and O ability. You have to really be able to sell and make the people you are selling to believe that you believe what you are selling.


#17

[quote=“djones, post:15, topic:1133”]Larry, Penn State has never had a salesman running its men’s basketball team. Shoe salesmen, yeah. But not a big-profile guy who loved to talk, loved to pitch the program, enjoyed rallying the students and relished the whole promotion of the school and the team. Not even anyone close. The last guy with anything resembling a big personality was Dick Harter and that was before ESPN! Until it hires somebody who really likes to recruit and sell, you can’t say what Penn State’s ceiling is. Which means you can’t say being an Eastern school in a Midwestern league is necessarily The Problem.

I, for one, gotta side completely with Spike on this. (Not his smart-ass approach, just his point.)
Especially the part about Boeheim. I couldn’t have said it better myself. He’s at the point now where he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about any of it, anyway, except maybe maintaining the status quo. He dragged his feet and whined about the ACC proposal. Now, he’s doing the same thing with the Big Ten chatter. You can’t even count his comments as valid because he has a personal agenda.[/quote]

What’s you’re describing is what it will take to overcome “The Problem”. That’s not the same thing as suggesting that the problem doesn’t exist. Too many people point at the number of talented basketball players in PA and suggest that we should be getting out share without recognizing that the conference that we play in is an issue. We are not on equal footing with the Pitts and Villanovas of the basketball world. They have their conference working for them, while ours works against us.


#18

Yes, and getting couple more Eastern teams, especially of the nature of Syracuse, Conn or whoever can’t do anything but help.


#19
[quote="djones, post:15, topic:1133"]Larry, Penn State has never had a salesman running its men's basketball team. Shoe salesmen, yeah. But not a big-profile guy who loved to talk, loved to pitch the program, enjoyed rallying the students and relished the whole promotion of the school and the team. Not even anyone close. The last guy with anything resembling a big personality was Dick Harter and that was before ESPN! Until it hires somebody who really likes to recruit and sell, you can't say what Penn State's ceiling is. Which means you can't say being an Eastern school in a Midwestern league is necessarily The Problem.

I, for one, gotta side completely with Spike on this. (Not his smart-ass approach, just his point.)
Especially the part about Boeheim. I couldn’t have said it better myself. He’s at the point now where he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about any of it, anyway, except maybe maintaining the status quo. He dragged his feet and whined about the ACC proposal. Now, he’s doing the same thing with the Big Ten chatter. You can’t even count his comments as valid because he has a personal agenda.[/quote]

What’s you’re describing is what it will take to overcome “The Problem”. That’s not the same thing as suggesting that the problem doesn’t exist. Too many people point at the number of talented basketball players in PA and suggest that we should be getting out share without recognizing that the conference that we play in is an issue. We are not on equal footing with the Pitts and Villanovas of the basketball world. They have their conference working for them, while ours works against us.

Lar, you are looking at this the wrong way. I don’t care what “The Problem” is. If I guy can come in and overcome “The Problem” and all the other problems and so called obstacles this program faces, then in reality THE PROBLEM is really that we don’t have this type of guy leading the prgram.


#20

I agree with Dave Jones that Penn State hasn’t had a head MBB coach with some “charisma” since Dick Harter, if even he qualifies. Now I don’t think you need to hire Rick Pitino to find that essential coaching ingredient; there are some coaches at all levels who can bring that asset to the table, but you’ve got to do a really thorough job of vetting your candidates.

There are other qualities that you should seek in the guy who succeeds DeChellis, whenever that happens, but finding someone who can light up the media, the alumni and the recruits with his personal presence, his vision, his confidence in overcoming the historic negatives of Penn State Basketball, that has to be the quality most sought once you’ve screened for the other qualifications.

Guys with big egos and big personalities can be tough to live with if you’re supervising them, but that’s the management challenge Penn State should embrace for it’s next MBB coaching search.