Battle battles faulty rep as he pursues NBA dream


#1

DJones


#2

That was awesome, Dave.


#3

Nice piece, but wasn’t it an ankle injury his junior year in high school, not a knee?

I may be wrong, my memory faids more and more on me every day.


#4

I think it was an ankle,but a good piece either way


#5

Dakich is a hack who made his career out of hanging out with Bobby Knight. You would have thought he would have been a better coach. So now he has a pulpit and gets to spout whatever crap is at the tip of his tongue.

Great article Dave.


#6
Battle is slight and, though very quick, not particularly strong with the ball.

uh oh, that’s is in direct conflict with everything Kid believes. i thought his handle was unmatched?

And as far as the Dakich comments - i don’t completely disagree with the point he was trying to make, but i do think he could’ve been a little better about making it.


#7

[quote=“Skeeza, post:3, topic:1126”]Nice piece, but wasn’t it an ankle injury his junior year in high school, not a knee?

I may be wrong, my memory faids more and more on me every day.[/quote]

Broken ankle, summer of '06. Think it happened during AAU tourney in St. Louis, though not entirely sure of place. Great piece. Dakich is a dope.

uh oh, that’s is in direct conflict with everything Kid believes. i thought his handle was unmatched?

And as far as the Dakich comments - i don’t completely disagree with the point he was trying to make, but i do think he could’ve been a little better about making it.[/quote]

No it isn’t knucklehead. By strong with the ball, he means strong going to the hole, IMO. John Wall, Derrick Rose, Kobe, those guys are strong with the ball. Battle not physically strong enough to finish strong at the hole vs. big men in the lane. Handle? Battle’s among the best. TO’s tell the tale. email djones if you want to know what he meant. Curry’s not strong with the ball either. Not enough heft.


#8

When i hear strong with the ball i think ballhandling. maybe it’s just me…


#9

First, thanks for the correction, guys. I fixed it (ankle sted knee).

By strong with the ball, I mean able to beat traps and double teams with the bounce with alacrity. To get where you want to go quickly and without losing the handle no matter the defense.

Joe Crispin was strong with the ball, stronger than Talor. Defenses just quit trying to trap him by his sophomore year because he was so quick with the ball and protected it so well on the bounce. That’s what I call a yoyo handle, like the ball’s on a string. Usually, Crispin would be very aggressive against traps and split them and then attack which causes major havoc. The best Big Ten defenders did not bother his handle. Mike Kelley just shook his head one day after getting shredded by Joe and simply gave him credit. My Wisconsin guys say Joe is still the only player Kelley feels really made him feel helpless.

Only guy I ever saw in college bother him even a little with on-ball pressure defense was John Linehan in the 2001 NCAA tournament first-rounder. Linehan was the best backcourt defender of his era in the college game and he got up and into Joe a little and got him to kick the ball out of bounds on his crossover a couple of times. That precipitated an offer from Titus Ivory to bring the ball up and play lead guard for a time and allow Joe to run Linehan off screens most of the second half – which eventually wore out Linehan.

There’s quick afoot and then there’s quick with the ball against double-teams. Two different things. The latter is what some scouts call “strong with the ball.”


#10

I originally thought the same thing, but he writes about finding his teammates, so I think he means at the hole, which is a legitimate point.


#11

djones, you changed one reference to the ankle, but not the other:

"They returned in droves months later when it was clear the knee was fine. "


#12

Is that you, Bill Raftery? Love that word!


#13

[quote=“djones, post:9, topic:1126”]First, thanks for the correction, guys. I fixed it (ankle sted knee).

By strong with the ball, I mean able to beat traps and double teams with the bounce with alacrity. To get where you want to go quickly and without losing the handle no matter the defense.

Joe Crispin was strong with the ball, stronger than Talor. Defenses just quit trying to trap him by his sophomore year because he was so quick with the ball and protected it so well on the bounce. That’s what I call a yoyo handle, like the ball’s on a string. Usually, Crispin would be very aggressive against traps and split them and then attack which causes major havoc. The best Big Ten defenders did not bother his handle. Mike Kelley just shook his head one day after getting shredded by Joe and simply gave him credit. My Wisconsin guys say Joe is still the only player Kelley feels really made him feel helpless.

Only guy I ever saw in college bother him even a little with on-ball pressure defense was John Linehan in the 2001 NCAA tournament first-rounder. Linehan was the best backcourt defender of his era in the college game and he got up and into Joe a little and got him to kick the ball out of bounds on his crossover a couple of times. That precipitated an offer from Titus Ivory to bring the ball up and play lead guard for a time and allow Joe to run Linehan off screens most of the second half – which eventually wore out Linehan.

There’s quick afoot and then there’s quick with the ball against double-teams. Two different things. The latter is what some scouts call “strong with the ball.”[/quote]

That’s a good explanation and I agree with it.


#14
[quote="djones, post:9, topic:1126"]First, thanks for the correction, guys. I fixed it (ankle sted knee).

By strong with the ball, I mean able to beat traps and double teams with the bounce with alacrity. To get where you want to go quickly and without losing the handle no matter the defense.

Joe Crispin was strong with the ball, stronger than Talor. Defenses just quit trying to trap him by his sophomore year because he was so quick with the ball and protected it so well on the bounce. That’s what I call a yoyo handle, like the ball’s on a string. Usually, Crispin would be very aggressive against traps and split them and then attack which causes major havoc. The best Big Ten defenders did not bother his handle. Mike Kelley just shook his head one day after getting shredded by Joe and simply gave him credit. My Wisconsin guys say Joe is still the only player Kelley feels really made him feel helpless.

Only guy I ever saw in college bother him even a little with on-ball pressure defense was John Linehan in the 2001 NCAA tournament first-rounder. Linehan was the best backcourt defender of his era in the college game and he got up and into Joe a little and got him to kick the ball out of bounds on his crossover a couple of times. That precipitated an offer from Titus Ivory to bring the ball up and play lead guard for a time and allow Joe to run Linehan off screens most of the second half – which eventually wore out Linehan.

There’s quick afoot and then there’s quick with the ball against double-teams. Two different things. The latter is what some scouts call “strong with the ball.”[/quote]

That’s a good explanation and I agree with it.

I agree also…and I am NOT knocking the author. He is very good with words BUT in my day we would say…“Some guys can PLAY and some guys CAN’t.” We made our point in a lot fewer words. Which used to be important…at least in some places (my neighborhood!) Other neighborhoods would say “He can really BALL.”

P.S. Talor is a fine player. I hope he gets to work out (see “play”) against many other NBA prospects next weekend and show his stuff on the court.


#15

[quote=“djones, post:9, topic:1126”]First, thanks for the correction, guys. I fixed it (ankle sted knee).

By strong with the ball, I mean able to beat traps and double teams with the bounce with alacrity. To get where you want to go quickly and without losing the handle no matter the defense.

Joe Crispin was strong with the ball, stronger than Talor. Defenses just quit trying to trap him by his sophomore year because he was so quick with the ball and protected it so well on the bounce. That’s what I call a yoyo handle, like the ball’s on a string. Usually, Crispin would be very aggressive against traps and split them and then attack which causes major havoc. The best Big Ten defenders did not bother his handle. Mike Kelley just shook his head one day after getting shredded by Joe and simply gave him credit. My Wisconsin guys say Joe is still the only player Kelley feels really made him feel helpless.

Only guy I ever saw in college bother him even a little with on-ball pressure defense was John Linehan in the 2001 NCAA tournament first-rounder. Linehan was the best backcourt defender of his era in the college game and he got up and into Joe a little and got him to kick the ball out of bounds on his crossover a couple of times. That precipitated an offer from Titus Ivory to bring the ball up and play lead guard for a time and allow Joe to run Linehan off screens most of the second half – which eventually wore out Linehan.

There’s quick afoot and then there’s quick with the ball against double-teams. Two different things. The latter is what some scouts call “strong with the ball.”[/quote]

Crispin’s assist/TO ratio was 110/96. Titus was at 147/83 on that team, both in 33 games, so Joe averaged 3.3/2.91, Titus 4.45/2.52. Talor last year was at 129/72 in 31 games, or 4.16/2.3. Joe’s numbers don’t seem that strong with the ball. Your thoughts?


#16

hmmmm…I seem to remember a reporter writing that it was part of the coaching staff’s game plan from the get go to allow Crispin & Ivory to switch whenever they saw fit… :wink:

Decisions pay off for Nittany Lions
Patriot-News, The (Harrisburg, PA) - Saturday, March 17, 2001
Author: David Jones, Of The Patriot-News


#17

That’s right. Jerry gave them the freedom and the guys worked it out among themselves.


#18
Crispin's assist/TO ratio was 110/96. Titus was at 147/83 on that team, both in 33 games, so Joe averaged 3.3/2.91, Titus 4.45/2.52. Talor last year was at 129/72 in 31 games, or 4.16/2.3. Joe's numbers don't seem that strong with the ball. Your thoughts?

My thoughts are these: Joe’s problem with turnovers resulted from recklessness when he wasn’t pressured, not tentativeness or a lack of handle when he was. Virtually none of those TOVRs resulted from ball pressure. A lot of them resulted from bravado, often Joe trying to make the occasional ill-advised pass.

NBA scouts watch situations and match-ups. They assess a player’s qualities by seeing what happens in certain scenarios during a game and a season against certain quality opponents. These situations and their results tell them what they want to know. They do not pore over stat sheets.


#19

[quote=“djones, post:18, topic:1126”][quote]

Crispin’s assist/TO ratio was 110/96. Titus was at 147/83 on that team, both in 33 games, so Joe averaged 3.3/2.91, Titus 4.45/2.52. Talor last year was at 129/72 in 31 games, or 4.16/2.3. Joe’s numbers don’t seem that strong with the ball. Your thoughts?
[/quote]

My thoughts are these: Joe’s problem with turnovers resulted from recklessness when he wasn’t pressured, not tentativeness or a lack of handle when he was. Virtually none of those TOVRs resulted from ball pressure. A lot of them resulted from bravado, often Joe trying to make the occasional ill-advised pass.

NBA scouts watch situations and match-ups. They assess a player’s qualities by seeing what happens in certain scenarios during a game and a season against certain quality opponents. These situations and their results tell them what they want to know. They do not pore over stat sheets.[/quote]

Agree. Stats may only lead them to someone to LOOK (see: eyeballs) AT.


#20
[quote="djones, post:18, topic:1126"][quote]

Crispin’s assist/TO ratio was 110/96. Titus was at 147/83 on that team, both in 33 games, so Joe averaged 3.3/2.91, Titus 4.45/2.52. Talor last year was at 129/72 in 31 games, or 4.16/2.3. Joe’s numbers don’t seem that strong with the ball. Your thoughts?
[/quote]

My thoughts are these: Joe’s problem with turnovers resulted from recklessness when he wasn’t pressured, not tentativeness or a lack of handle when he was. Virtually none of those TOVRs resulted from ball pressure. A lot of them resulted from bravado, often Joe trying to make the occasional ill-advised pass.

NBA scouts watch situations and match-ups. They assess a player’s qualities by seeing what happens in certain scenarios during a game and a season against certain quality opponents. These situations and their results tell them what they want to know. They do not pore over stat sheets.[/quote]

Agree. Stats may only lead them to someone to LOOK (see: eyeballs) AT.

But the stats can uncover things that eyeballs miss, which is why most NBA teams now employ APBRmetric guys. Also, when it comes to “hoops eyeballs”, the NBA guys have 20/20 vision while most internet wannabies have 20/100 and think they have 100/20.