Battle - 10th Best SG


#1

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-basketball/article/2009-09-22/college-basketballs-top-10-shooting-guards


#2

Very cool. But you’d think they could come up with something nicer to say about him than “He averaged 37.4 minutes as a sophomore last season.” ::slight_smile:


#3

Also, Talor is not a shooting guard, though neither are some others like Reynolds. But a couple other items…while 207 FTA’s is great for Isiah Thomas, it probably landed him second behind Battle’s 210! I’d also like to know if any of these guys had more than 92 treys. Without looking, I doubt it.

Where’s Manny Harris on this list? He has to be top 10. Big 10 once again getting less respect than deserved.


#4

I bought an Athlon’s basketball preview magazine last night and they had ranked Talor as the 8th best guard and the 24th best player in the country. He was the 3rd Big Ten player listed behind Evan Turner and Manny Harris and he was ahead of Kalin Lucas at MSU. They still picked PSU 9th in the conference and projected another NIT run. It has been a long time since we had somebody getting so much preseason love. I like it :slight_smile:


#5

NIT again? Ugh. I’d agree with the position behind Turner and Harris. Not that I think they’re better (I don’t), but they have great size, NBA body types. I’d pick Harris as the conference’s best player. He needs to shoot 3’s better, but he’s improved, and he’s so explosive. That slash and dunk he does is wicked.


#6

[quote=“kidcoyote, post:3, topic:57”]Also, Talor is not a shooting guard, though neither are some others like Reynolds. But a couple other items…while 207 FTA’s is great for Isiah Thomas, it probably landed him second behind Battle’s 210! I’d also like to know if any of these guys had more than 92 treys. Without looking, I doubt it.

Where’s Manny Harris on this list? He has to be top 10. Big 10 once again getting less respect than deserved.[/quote]

10th Best SF…somehow behind Lance Stephenson

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-basketball/article/2009-09-23/college-basketballs-top-10-small-forwards


#7
[quote="kidcoyote, post:3, topic:57"]Also, Talor is not a shooting guard, though neither are some others like Reynolds. But a couple other items...while 207 FTA's is great for Isiah Thomas, it probably landed him second behind Battle's 210! I'd also like to know if any of these guys had more than 92 treys. Without looking, I doubt it.

Where’s Manny Harris on this list? He has to be top 10. Big 10 once again getting less respect than deserved.[/quote]

10th Best SF…somehow behind Lance Stephenson

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-basketball/article/2009-09-23/college-basketballs-top-10-small-forwards

I just lost total respect for this writer. Manny Harris a SF? And behind Lance, who’s also a 2? Something wrong with Lance. His D is non-existent. He yells at his teammates, yells at the refs. His promo video(Born Ready) shows him punching a kid. He can dunk sort of Jordanesque, but can’t shoot 3’s. I wouldn’t even want him. He’s trouble. He’s also been accused of sexual assault in HS, in a case that’s been delayed, though don’t know what the latest is. I’d be surprised if he goes to any classes. Ever hear him speak? IMO, Manny’s much better. Lance’s only skill from the two times I saw him play is taking off from the top of the key and dunking. Lance is out for Lance, not his team.


#8
[quote="kidcoyote, post:3, topic:57"]Also, Talor is not a shooting guard, though neither are some others like Reynolds. But a couple other items...while 207 FTA's is great for Isiah Thomas, it probably landed him second behind Battle's 210! I'd also like to know if any of these guys had more than 92 treys. Without looking, I doubt it.

Where’s Manny Harris on this list? He has to be top 10. Big 10 once again getting less respect than deserved.[/quote]

10th Best SF…somehow behind Lance Stephenson

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-basketball/article/2009-09-23/college-basketballs-top-10-small-forwards

I just lost total respect for this writer. Manny Harris a SF? And behind Lance, who’s also a 2? Something wrong with Lance. His D is non-existent. He yells at his teammates, yells at the refs. His promo video(Born Ready) shows him punching a kid. He can dunk sort of Jordanesque, but can’t shoot 3’s. I wouldn’t even want him. He’s trouble. He’s also been accused of sexual assault in HS, in a case that’s been delayed, though don’t know what the latest is. I’d be surprised if he goes to any classes. Ever hear him speak? IMO, Manny’s much better. Lance’s only skill from the two times I saw him play is taking off from the top of the key and dunking. Lance is out for Lance, not his team.

Sounds like you don’t like Lance. After seeing Jordan’s speech and your description of Lance, maybe Lance is more Jodanesque in other areas as well.


#9

Collegehoops.net has it’s all american team out for 2009-10 and Talor is 3rd team. Who was the last Penn State player that was a preseason all-american? Who was the last player that was a post-season all-american? Attached is the link.http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/editors-predictions-2009-10-all-americans-167173


#10

The Big East, even with their inflated conference, only has 3 AA’s. The B10 has 5.


#11

I haven’t seen Sherron Collin enough to have opinion, but I have seen Lucas and Reynolds a lot. IMO, Battle’s better than Reynolds, and it’s pretty close vs. Lucas. Lucas is fast, a little taller, a much better foul shooter, great handle, and an overall better shooter. But Battle’s better on 3’s, at least his range, hit a lot more, 92 vs. 41, killed Lucas in rebounds, 203 vs. 80, and Battle’s more clutch. In the win vs. MSU at Lansing, while Lucas played a good game, Battle outplayed him(really both times), and while Lucas was something like 8-8 from the line, down by 1, he missed his last FT, arguably the shot that lost the game for MSU, then he missed the last MSU shot, a poor selection, and not really close to going in. One other issue is that Walton covered Battle most of the game, so Lucas isn’t called on to play him, helping him to avoid foul trouble. Lucas also was a bit wobbily in championship game vs. NC with 6 TO’s. Battle handles pressure better(expect grief on this). On assist/TO’s and on FTA’s, they’re almost identical, as both like to drive to score, so they get fouled. Lucas does shoot his FTA’s at 80%, Battle at 70%. Lucas had 49 PF’s, Battle 79. Seems like Battle, with the big edge in rebounds and PF’s, mixes it up a bit more. We’ll see what happens this year.


#12
[quote="Donkey, post:9, topic:57"]Collegehoops.net has it's all american team out for 2009-10 and Talor is 3rd team. Who was the last Penn State player that was a preseason all-american? Who was the last player that was a post-season all-american? Attached is the link.[url=http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/editors-predictions-2009-10-all-americans-167173]http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/editors-predictions-2009-10-all-americans-167173[/url][/quote]

I haven’t seen Sherron Collin enough to have opinion, but I have seen Lucas and Reynolds a lot. IMO, Battle’s better than Reynolds, and it’s pretty close vs. Lucas. Lucas is fast, a little taller, a much better foul shooter, great handle, and an overall better shooter. But Battle’s better on 3’s, at least his range, hit a lot more, 92 vs. 41, killed Lucas in rebounds, 203 vs. 80, and Battle’s more clutch. In the win vs. MSU at Lansing, while Lucas played a good game, Battle outplayed him(really both times), and while Lucas was something like 8-8 from the line, down by 1, he missed his last FT, arguably the shot that lost the game for MSU, then he missed the last MSU shot, a poor selection, and not really close to going in. One other issue is that Walton covered Battle most of the game, so Lucas isn’t called on to play him, helping him to avoid foul trouble. Lucas also was a bit wobbily in championship game vs. NC with 6 TO’s. Battle handles pressure better(expect grief on this). On assist/TO’s and on FTA’s, they’re almost identical, as both like to drive to score, so they get fouled. Lucas does shoot his FTA’s at 80%, Battle at 70%. Lucas had 49 PF’s, Battle 79. Seems like Battle, with the big edge in rebounds and PF’s, mixes it up a bit more. We’ll see what happens this year.

I wouldn’t knock Lucas because of rebounding or who he guards. With MSU’s overall talent level, Lucas probably is not asked to crash the boards or guard the opponent’s best player too often. Battle’s best asset, in my opinion, is that he believes he will succeed. He doesn’t seem to have any fear. That drive and determination is good for a couple extra W’s every year.


#13

LP, this is the link, which I see I forgot in the other thread…oh, never mind. Anyway, here’s a guy with a differing viewpoint from the collegehoopsnet picks.

My point was he has him on 5th team. I don’t particularly like Turner, but I’d probably have him 3rd team. I just don’t think he deserves to be above Talor on anyone’s list. He’s a good size for the pros, but not sure what position. You know I like bangers at forward, but if he’s a small forward, like Scottie Pippen, he needs to shoot 3’s much, much better. Cornley, hardly a 3 machine hit way more than him. Do you know what Turner shot for 3’s in conference? 3 for 11. Cornley hit 10. Goran Suton hit 9. I’m just not sure what his game is. He’s a good rebounder, lots of assists, so interesting, but seems like either a 4 or a pg. :wink: The 30th player in the conference had 18 treys in conf play, so IMO, he needs to improve here big time, unless he becomes a banger, which doesn’t seem likely. For instance, why is he better than Claxton? Better handle I guess, and at FT’s for sure, but what else? Claxton was a better rebounder and better shooter at the arc by far. Kind of a head scratcher to me.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/10037796/Preseason-All-Americans-for-2009-10


#14

Thanks for the explanation. I think the big thing people like about Turner is his versatility. I’m not sure what his position will be in the NBA, and to truthful, I don’t really care. He is a beast on the collegiate level. He could probably play any position (in college) except for the 5. He’s got good size, great handle, great vision and can get the ball in the bucket. I agree he’s got to work on his long range shooting…it’s quite a headscratcher.


#15

It’s a headscratcher that a guy who’s projected as a small forward or big guard has only three 3’s in 20 games, probably not in top 50 in conference. Work on it? I guess. I just don’t believe 3 shooters become such in college or beyond. 3 shooters are born or made by HS at the latest. Good numbers by Turner, but something just doesn’t seem right. I like Coble better. A 6’8" guy who can drain. Yes, I like bangers, but Turner’s not a banger. If you’re not a banger, you have to nail 3’s. IMO, Shurner’s good too.


#16
[quote="Donkey, post:9, topic:57"]Collegehoops.net has it's all american team out for 2009-10 and Talor is 3rd team. Who was the last Penn State player that was a preseason all-american? Who was the last player that was a post-season all-american? Attached is the link.[url=http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/editors-predictions-2009-10-all-americans-167173]http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/editors-predictions-2009-10-all-americans-167173[/url][/quote]

I haven’t seen Sherron Collin enough to have opinion, but I have seen Lucas and Reynolds a lot. IMO, Battle’s better than Reynolds, and it’s pretty close vs. Lucas. Lucas is fast, a little taller, a much better foul shooter, great handle, and an overall better shooter. But Battle’s better on 3’s, at least his range, hit a lot more, 92 vs. 41, killed Lucas in rebounds, 203 vs. 80, and Battle’s more clutch. In the win vs. MSU at Lansing, while Lucas played a good game, Battle outplayed him(really both times), and while Lucas was something like 8-8 from the line, down by 1, he missed his last FT, arguably the shot that lost the game for MSU, then he missed the last MSU shot, a poor selection, and not really close to going in. One other issue is that Walton covered Battle most of the game, so Lucas isn’t called on to play him, helping him to avoid foul trouble. Lucas also was a bit wobbily in championship game vs. NC with 6 TO’s. Battle handles pressure better(expect grief on this). On assist/TO’s and on FTA’s, they’re almost identical, as both like to drive to score, so they get fouled. Lucas does shoot his FTA’s at 80%, Battle at 70%. Lucas had 49 PF’s, Battle 79. Seems like Battle, with the big edge in rebounds and PF’s, mixes it up a bit more. We’ll see what happens this year.

I wouldn’t knock Lucas because of rebounding or who he guards. With MSU’s overall talent level, Lucas probably is not asked to crash the boards or guard the opponent’s best player too often. Battle’s best asset, in my opinion, is that he believes he will succeed. He doesn’t seem to have any fear. That drive and determination is good for a couple extra W’s every year.

mjg, you made my point. He’s not asked to rb or cover the best player, so his job is easier. He fouled Battle in Lansing, then Walton got the cover. So, if Battle does more, like rebounding and playing tougher D(not necessarily better, as I think it can improve vastly), his job is harder. I like Lucas, but the only thing he definitely does better is free throws, and vs. PSU, he missed the key one in the last minute of the game after going 8-8. Do I think the pressure got to him? Yes. Reminds me of a game FL v. KY. Tie game, Jodie Meeks hits a trey in last 10 seconds. FL inbounds, gives it to Calathes, he cross halfcourt and from about 30’, launches a 3, misses but is fouled. He was something like 9-9, goes to the line needing to make all 3, and clanks the 1st 2 terribly, can’t remember what he did on the 3rd, though maybe missed on purpose. So, maybe stat line was 9-12 from the line. Is that you want in a player,missing the big ones badly but having good stats? Granted, tough, tough situation, but it got to him, no doubt. He looked ill at the line. Pressure gets to some guys, and not others. Key, IMO. Who would you rather have, Calathes or Talor? You said it, no fear. IMO, you can throw the stats out the window. Re Lucas, tougher call. IMO, he’s very, very good.


#17
[quote="Donkey, post:9, topic:57"]Collegehoops.net has it's all american team out for 2009-10 and Talor is 3rd team. Who was the last Penn State player that was a preseason all-american? Who was the last player that was a post-season all-american? Attached is the link.[url=http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/editors-predictions-2009-10-all-americans-167173]http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/editors-predictions-2009-10-all-americans-167173[/url][/quote]

I haven’t seen Sherron Collin enough to have opinion, but I have seen Lucas and Reynolds a lot. IMO, Battle’s better than Reynolds, and it’s pretty close vs. Lucas. Lucas is fast, a little taller, a much better foul shooter, great handle, and an overall better shooter. But Battle’s better on 3’s, at least his range, hit a lot more, 92 vs. 41, killed Lucas in rebounds, 203 vs. 80, and Battle’s more clutch. In the win vs. MSU at Lansing, while Lucas played a good game, Battle outplayed him(really both times), and while Lucas was something like 8-8 from the line, down by 1, he missed his last FT, arguably the shot that lost the game for MSU, then he missed the last MSU shot, a poor selection, and not really close to going in. One other issue is that Walton covered Battle most of the game, so Lucas isn’t called on to play him, helping him to avoid foul trouble. Lucas also was a bit wobbily in championship game vs. NC with 6 TO’s. Battle handles pressure better(expect grief on this). On assist/TO’s and on FTA’s, they’re almost identical, as both like to drive to score, so they get fouled. Lucas does shoot his FTA’s at 80%, Battle at 70%. Lucas had 49 PF’s, Battle 79. Seems like Battle, with the big edge in rebounds and PF’s, mixes it up a bit more. We’ll see what happens this year.

I wouldn’t knock Lucas because of rebounding or who he guards. With MSU’s overall talent level, Lucas probably is not asked to crash the boards or guard the opponent’s best player too often. Battle’s best asset, in my opinion, is that he believes he will succeed. He doesn’t seem to have any fear. That drive and determination is good for a couple extra W’s every year.

mjg, you made my point. He’s not asked to rb or cover the best player, so his job is easier. He fouled Battle in Lansing, then Walton got the cover. So, if Battle does more, like rebounding and playing tougher D(not necessarily better, as I think it can improve vastly), his job is harder. I like Lucas, but the only thing he definitely does better if free throws, and vs. PSU, he missed the key one in the last minute of the game after going 8-8. Do I think the pressure got to him? Yes. Reminds me of a game FL v. KY. Tie game, Jodie Meeks hits a trey in last 10 seconds. FL inbounds, gives it to Calathes, he cross halfcourt and from about 30’, launches a 3, misses but is fouled. He was something like 9-9, goes to the line needing to make all 3, and clanks the 1st 2 terribly, can’t remember what he did on the 3rd, though maybe missed on purpose. So, maybe stat line was 9-12 from the line. Is that you want in a player,missing the big ones badly but having good stats? Granted, tough, tough situation, but it got to him, no doubt. He looked ill at the line. Pressure gets to some guys, and not others. Key, IMO. Who would you rather have, Calathes or Talor? You said it, no fear. IMO, you can throw the stats out the window. Re Lucas, tougher call. IMO, he’s very, very good.

In a way, I was agreeing with you. I was just suggesting we shouldn’t knock Lucas – he may have the ability to do all the things Talor does. But because he isn’t asked to do them, we don’t know. You said it – he’s very, very good.


#18
[quote="LPcreation, post:14, topic:57"]Thanks for the explanation. I think the big thing people like about Turner is his versatility. I'm not sure what his position will be in the NBA, and to truthful, I don't really care. He is a beast on the collegiate level. He could probably play any position (in college) except for the 5. He's got good size, great handle, great vision and can get the ball in the bucket. I agree he's got to work on his long range shooting.......it's quite a headscratcher.[/quote]

It’s a headscratcher that a guy who’s projected as a small forward or big guard has only three 3’s in 20 games, probably not in top 50 in conference. Work on it? I guess. I just don’t believe 3 shooters become such in college or beyond. 3 shooters are born or made by HS at the latest. Good numbers by Turner, but something just doesn’t seem right. I like Coble better. A 6’8" guy who can drain. Yes, I like bangers, but Turner’s not a banger. If you’re not a banger, you have to nail 3’s. IMO, Shurner’s good too.

I don’t think you have to hit 3’s to play the 3. It would be nice if he could hit the shot more often. But I don’t see it as a job requirement given his other skill sets.


#19
[quote="LPcreation, post:14, topic:57"]Thanks for the explanation. I think the big thing people like about Turner is his versatility. I'm not sure what his position will be in the NBA, and to truthful, I don't really care. He is a beast on the collegiate level. He could probably play any position (in college) except for the 5. He's got good size, great handle, great vision and can get the ball in the bucket. I agree he's got to work on his long range shooting.......it's quite a headscratcher.[/quote]

It’s a headscratcher that a guy who’s projected as a small forward or big guard has only three 3’s in 20 games, probably not in top 50 in conference. Work on it? I guess. I just don’t believe 3 shooters become such in college or beyond. 3 shooters are born or made by HS at the latest. Good numbers by Turner, but something just doesn’t seem right. I like Coble better. A 6’8" guy who can drain. Yes, I like bangers, but Turner’s not a banger. If you’re not a banger, you have to nail 3’s. IMO, Shurner’s good too.

I don’t think you have to hit 3’s to play the 3. It would be nice if he could hit the shot more often. But I don’t see it as a job requirement given his other skill sets.

I guess. If he can handle(which he can) and score inside 15’, great. It’s just unusual. Hit it more often? How about taking it more often? Battle was 42-140 in conf, Turner 3-11? If he relies on driving, I’d like to see how he does vs. team with 7’ center. Mich and Minny have 7 footers for sure, but UM’s was redshirted last year.