PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

B1G changes inter-conference transfer rule

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/58173/big-ten-makes-changes-to-transfer-rule

More BigTen1112 silliness. :-[

Am I the only person not understanding what the big deal is about what Bo Ryan was doing/saying? You put time and resources into a kid and he just up and leaves and you’re not supposed to have any say in it?

On the other hand, I think coaches that up and leave out of nowhere should face similar types of restrictions and possibly even penalties regarding coaching opportunities at other NCAA schools… but for crying out loud, to act like programs should just let kids leave and go wherever they want with a big smile on their faces is ridiculous to me.

Explain why he should have a say in where the kid leaves. The kid doesn’t want to be at Wisconsin, who cares where he goes? Get someone else who wants to be there.

Am I the only person not understanding what the big deal is about what Bo Ryan was doing/saying? You put time and resources into a kid and he just up and leaves and you're not supposed to have any say in it?

Explain why he should have a say in where the kid leaves. The kid doesn’t want to be at Wisconsin, who cares where he goes? Get someone else who wants to be there.

Because the Wisconsin staff and school spent a lot of time and resources getting this kid to school and practicing with him and coaching him and now he’s just going to leave. Do you want that training and that information you taught and those resources being used against you?

As much as I think the NCAA sucks like the rest of you, I can completely understand why a coach wants a say in where a kid transfers.

These aren’t professionals, granted, but they are (young) adults and they are making a commitment to a school. In order to break that commitment there should be a price to pay. I don’t think anybody would agree that kids should just be able to play 4 years at 4 different schools, freely switching back and forth wherever they want. So we can agree that there should be some limits on this.

And I think most people agree that transferring within a conference should come with a stiff penalty. So we agree that some schools should be off limits to some degree. It’s not like taking it a step further to say other schools are off the board is really that much of a leap.

And I completely understand why Steve Jobs doesn’t want his engineers poached/paid the wages the marketplace determines: A federal judge in California today ordered seven tech companies to face private antitrust lawsuit in which they are accused of adhering to secret agreements not to hire each others’ employees.

I don’t know about ‘most’, but I completely disagree with this. It’s not even a gray area to me. Maybe this is where our disconnect lies.

[quote="Craftsy21, post:3, topic:3250"]Am I the only person not understanding what the big deal is about what Bo Ryan was doing/saying? You put time and resources into a kid and he just up and leaves and you're not supposed to have any say in it?[/quote]

Explain why he should have a say in where the kid leaves. The kid doesn’t want to be at Wisconsin, who cares where he goes? Get someone else who wants to be there.

Because the Wisconsin staff and school spent a lot of time and resources getting this kid to school and practicing with him and coaching him and now he’s just going to leave. Do you want that training and that information you taught and those resources being used against you?

As much as I think the NCAA sucks like the rest of you, I can completely understand why a coach wants a say in where a kid transfers.

These aren’t professionals, granted, but they are (young) adults and they are making a commitment to a school. In order to break that commitment there should be a price to pay. I don’t think anybody would agree that kids should just be able to play 4 years at 4 different schools, freely switching back and forth wherever they want. So we can agree that there should be some limits on this.

And I think most people agree that transferring within a conference should come with a stiff penalty. So we agree that some schools should be off limits to some degree. It’s not like taking it a step further to say other schools are off the board is really that much of a leap.

You can’t play at four different schools in four years. The one year sit out rule is there for that reason.

The Wisconsin coaches put the training, and resources into him, which is fine, but this kid said he doesn’t feel he fits the system as well as he thought he would. I get blocking transfers in conference, I feel that should be mandatory unless there are extreme circumstances. However, the ACC? That’s ridiculous. Florida, Iowa State, Marquette? Even more ridiculous. It seemed like any school that showed interest in Utoff would then get blocked as a potential transfer candidate.

What was Bo Ryan’s excuse? Everyone else does it. Apparently that means he has to as well.

Because the Wisconsin staff and school spent a lot of time and resources getting this kid to school and practicing with him and coaching him and now he's just going to leave. Do you want that training and that information you taught and those resources being used against you?

As much as I think the NCAA sucks like the rest of you, I can completely understand why a coach wants a say in where a kid transfers.

These aren’t professionals, granted, but they are (young) adults and they are making a commitment to a school. In order to break that commitment there should be a price to pay. I don’t think anybody would agree that kids should just be able to play 4 years at 4 different schools, freely switching back and forth wherever they want. So we can agree that there should be some limits on this.

And I think most people agree that transferring within a conference should come with a stiff penalty. So we agree that some schools should be off limits to some degree. It’s not like taking it a step further to say other schools are off the board is really that much of a leap.

You can’t play at four different schools in four years. The one year sit out rule is there for that reason.

The Wisconsin coaches put the training, and resources into him, which is fine, but this kid said he doesn’t feel he fits the system as well as he thought he would. I get blocking transfers in conference, I feel that should be mandatory unless there are extreme circumstances. However, the ACC? That’s ridiculous. Florida, Iowa State, Marquette? Even more ridiculous. It seemed like any school that showed interest in Utoff would then get blocked as a potential transfer candidate.

What was Bo Ryan’s excuse? Everyone else does it. Apparently that means he has to as well.

To make a point for Crafty, I do want to point 2 things out…

1.) The kid did sign a LOI, which is basically a contract. Life Rule #1: do not sign anything you have not read or do not understand.

2.) The kid is not blocked form going to those schools. He can go an play wherever he wants. Gotta keep that in mind. The only thing being held back is the scholarship. If he REALLY wants to play somewhere else, he can do like 90% of the rest of the students there, and pay tuition.

[quote="Craftsy21, post:5, topic:3250"]Because the Wisconsin staff and school spent a lot of time and resources getting this kid to school and practicing with him and coaching him and now he's just going to leave. Do you want that training and that information you taught and those resources being used against you?

As much as I think the NCAA sucks like the rest of you, I can completely understand why a coach wants a say in where a kid transfers.

These aren’t professionals, granted, but they are (young) adults and they are making a commitment to a school. In order to break that commitment there should be a price to pay. I don’t think anybody would agree that kids should just be able to play 4 years at 4 different schools, freely switching back and forth wherever they want. So we can agree that there should be some limits on this.

And I think most people agree that transferring within a conference should come with a stiff penalty. So we agree that some schools should be off limits to some degree. It’s not like taking it a step further to say other schools are off the board is really that much of a leap.[/quote]

You can’t play at four different schools in four years. The one year sit out rule is there for that reason.

The Wisconsin coaches put the training, and resources into him, which is fine, but this kid said he doesn’t feel he fits the system as well as he thought he would. I get blocking transfers in conference, I feel that should be mandatory unless there are extreme circumstances. However, the ACC? That’s ridiculous. Florida, Iowa State, Marquette? Even more ridiculous. It seemed like any school that showed interest in Utoff would then get blocked as a potential transfer candidate.

What was Bo Ryan’s excuse? Everyone else does it. Apparently that means he has to as well.

To make a point for Crafty, I do want to point 2 things out…

1.) The kid did sign a LOI, which is basically a contract. Life Rule #1: do not sign anything you have not read or do not understand.

2.) The kid is not blocked form going to those schools. He can go an play wherever he wants. Gotta keep that in mind. The only thing being held back is the scholarship. If he REALLY wants to play somewhere else, he can do like 90% of the rest of the students there, and pay tuition.

These are good points. The kids brave enough to forgo the LOI are often making good decisions.

1h Seth Davis ‏ @SethDavisHoops Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Of course, if I asked this coach if he ever tampered, I’m sure the answer would be no. Everybody cheats, everybody tampers…except me.
Retweeted by Michael DeCourcy

1h Seth Davis ‏ @SethDavisHoops Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
"This was all about tampering." His theory was that Bo suspected an ACC school of tampering. Blocked entire league to avoid singling out.
Retweeted by Michael DeCourcy

1h Seth Davis ‏ @SethDavisHoops Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Got a voicemail from a Div I coach on my article about Bo Ryan and the transfer rule. "You guys have no clue how the business works…"
Retweeted by Michael DeCourcy

[quote=“Skeeza, post:8, topic:3250”]To make a point for Crafty, I do want to point 2 things out…

1.) The kid did sign a LOI, which is basically a contract. Life Rule #1: do not sign anything you have not read or do not understand.

2.) The kid is not blocked form going to those schools. He can go an play wherever he wants. Gotta keep that in mind. The only thing being held back is the scholarship. If he REALLY wants to play somewhere else, he can do like 90% of the rest of the students there, and pay tuition.[/quote]

  1. We’ve seen kids sign LOIs, and get their scholarships removed after one year at the university. We agree that’s a dirty process, the difference in this occasion is that the person who has a one year renewable scholarship wants to leave. If the school can just up, and take it away whenever they want, then you know what, the kid should be able to leave if he wants. NCAA Rules allow a school to block certain destinations for him. IIRC, Utoff is from Iowa, and if he wanted to move closer to home he couldn’t play for Iowa (B10, fair enough), or Iowa State (blocked for no reason). The two major conference universities in the State. If the kid doesn’t like Wisconsin, then shouldn’t Wisconsin let him go to bring in someone else who would be happy to be there? That’s what I don’t understand. Bo Ryan was behaving like a scorned ex-lover, and his excuses made him look even more foolish, and petty.

  2. Utoff has the ability to get a scholarship from a major university to play basketball. Wisconsin was blocking his ability to do that. Not many people out there get full scholarships at major universities, and to think “he can just pay tuition” when he has the talent to get a scholarship, is a bit preposterous, and I wholeheartedly disagree with it.

Rwd, what do you think about those tweets I posted that suggest this was about tampering? Shouldn’t a coach have some sort of recourse to prevent other schools from poaching his players?

No. He should be the kind of coach (at the kind of school) you want to play for.

I realize that is simplistic, but the current rules are the “plantation mentality” that Taylor Branch referred to (and qualified about the danger of slave analogies before stating, albeit futilely).

I do agree that contract law (and principles) and the LOI are effective arguments to my personal freedom approach.

[quote="Craftsy21, post:12, topic:3250"]Rwd, what do you think about those tweets I posted that suggest this was about tampering? Shouldn't a coach have some sort of recourse to prevent other schools from poaching his players?[/quote]

No. He should be the kind of coach (at the kind of school) you want to play for.

I realize that is simplistic, but the current rules are the “plantation mentality” that Taylor Branch referred to (and qualified about the danger of slave analogies before stating, albeit futilely).

I do agree that contract law (and principles) and the LOI are effective arguments to my personal freedom approach.

uh, simplistic might be an understatement. If you want to overhaul the entire system, go ahead and try. I’m not going to sit here and tell you that you’re wrong. But while we’re playing under the rules we currently have there needs to be some kind of protection for a school that makes an investment in a player.

I don’t think a kid leaving a school ever has much to do with the quality of the coaches and school that he’s leaving. The kids are the variable here.

Then report it to the NCAA.

Rwd, what do you think about those tweets I posted that suggest this was about tampering? Shouldn't a coach have some sort of recourse to prevent other schools from poaching his players?

Then report it to the NCAA.

I think you’d have more luck trying to block them yourself, honestly.

Emmert talks about a lot of stuff, including transfers.

Way too simple to me … when someone wants to go elsewhere … shake their hand … give 'em a hug and let 'em go …

I’m having a hard time buying this number. I think there’s some funny math going on.

“Forty percent of students who play men’s Division I basketball transfer at some point during their careers, according to NCAA data.”

[quote=“UncleLar, post:19, topic:3250”]I’m having a hard time buying this number. I think there’s some funny math going on.

“Forty percent of students who play men’s Division I basketball transfer at some point during their careers, according to NCAA data.”[/quote]

Even in a “bad” year PSU only saw 25% of its roster transfer.