PennStateHoops.com Discussion Forum

Andrew's game touches versus Furman


#1

Made a comment in the IJT that AJ was hardly noticeble. Just replayed the game and logged his touches on the offensive end and where they were.
First half: #1.) 16:50 rec’d pass facing basket at elbow of foul line - missed shot: #2.)14:50 rec’d pass on baseline about 12 ft from basket he passed it cross court to Talor who drained a 3. Give AJ an assist. #3.) 2:20 rec’s pass on foul line passes to open Battle who makes his 3. Note: AJ only was credited w/ 1 assist in this game-should have been 2.

Total first half touches = 3 none of which were rec’d with his back to the basket or inside 12 ft. Passes rec’d in low post = 0

Second Half: #1.) 18:00 missed put back off reboud of TB miss, #2.)17:40 Gets a low block pass & misses what announcer Jerry Hester called a gimme, #3.) 16:00 misses a put back of TB missed layup, #4.) 15:30 rec’s inbound pass @ 3 pt. line in front of PSU bench 20 ft. from basket, #5.) 15:11 recieves pass @ foul line facing basket shoots and is fouled, makes 1/2, #6.) 9:40 again rec’s inbound pass 20 feet from basket, #7.) 4:22 rec’s low block pass, fouled and makes 1 of 2, #8.) 3:00 rolls off a pick and gets wide open pass for point blank dunk.
Second half touches = 8. two of those were missed putback/follows, two of those were 20 feet from the basket, one was on the foul line, 3 were down on the low block. The line for AJ: 27 min., 3 rb’s, 0 blks, 0 to’s 1 FG and 4 points.
In 27 minutes, the # of times he got (or was able to make himself a viable option to get a pass in the low block was 3 times (emboldened #'s) , and that is against Furman. Getting 2 to 3 times the # of rebounds would soften lack of offensive contribution, but as noted re’s were only 3. We just have to get the 5 spot more involved or maybe the guy in the 5 spot has to get himself more involved.


#2

The guy in the 5 hole needs to get himself more involved.

We’ve got 4 seniors on scholarship, 3 are giving their all. It’s not that AJ doesn’t have the talent, we all saw what he could do during the NIT run. I’m just really disappointed that the light hasn’t turned on for the kid yet. We can really use him right now with Sasa and Graham both out.

Right now I think we should either start Billy or Kirkpatrick and bring Jones off the bench.


#3

Still think you guys are vastly underestimating the value he has defensively. I’m not suggesting he’s a stopper inside, but he’s still by far the best post defender we have.

Definitely like what Billy can provide from an outside shooting perspective, but I don’t see offense as our problem right now. We need to be most concerned with defense and rebounding and AJ is the best guy to have in there for those things at the 5. Our starting 5 makes sense right now to me, I like the change of pace Buie and Oliver provide off the bench and the fact that both can play a wide range of positions - we could still use 2 more guys to be consistent contributors off the bench, but they just may not exist this season and there’s no sense crying about it now… you dance with the gal you brought.


#4

I disagree. I don’t think this is a matter of AJ just not getting it. I truly think he just isn’t as good as some would make out. People want to point to a handful of games during the NIT to describe his talent level. What about the other 3+ years of games?


#5
[quote="jjepsu92, post:2, topic:1563"]We've got 4 seniors on scholarship, 3 are giving their all. [b]It's not that AJ doesn't have the talent, we all saw what he could do during the NIT run.[/b] I'm just really disappointed that the light hasn't turned on for the kid yet. We can really use him right now with Sasa and Graham both out.[/quote]

I disagree. I don’t think this is a matter of AJ just not getting it. I truly think he just isn’t as good as some would make out. People want to point to a handful of games during the NIT to describe his talent level. What about the other 3+ years of games?


The NIT wasn’t against tomato cans, there were some pretty good teams there. I just think that AJ has a case of what Jeff had. AJ thinks too much instead of just letting the game come to him.

He’s a great kid. Just wish he’d just let the game come to him. I really don’t care if he scores just grab rebounds. The last few games he hasn’t been doing that either.


#6

[quote=“jjepsu92, post:2, topic:1563”]The guy in the 5 hole needs to get himself more involved.

We’ve got 4 seniors on scholarship, 3 are giving their all. It’s not that AJ doesn’t have the talent, we all saw what he could do during the NIT run. I’m just really disappointed that the light hasn’t turned on for the kid yet. We can really use him right now with Sasa and Graham both out.

Right now I think we should either start Billy or Kirkpatrick and bring Jones off the bench.[/quote]
I think your first line is correct we have to get the guy in the 5 hole involved or the guy in 5 hole needs to make his presence felt.
Billy is not a prototype back to the basket guy. Don’t agree that Kirkpatrick remotely offers an upgrade to AJ.
AJ is still the best option. Unlike his senior couterparts he has “not demonstrated a senior season step up” and that is hurting us.


#7

AJ doesn’t get the ball enough. It’s simple. He’s open in the paint calling for it and never gets it. I know he isn’t Shaq, but you can’t expect him to get in a groove off of 3 touches a game.


#8

[quote=“Craftsy21, post:3, topic:1563”]Still think you guys are vastly underestimating the value he has defensively. I’m not suggesting he’s a stopper inside, but he’s still by far the best post defender we have.

Definitely like what Billy can provide from an outside shooting perspective, but I don’t see offense as our problem right now. We need to be most concerned with defense and rebounding and AJ is the best guy to have in there for those things at the 5. Our starting 5 makes sense right now to me, I like the change of pace Buie and Oliver provide off the bench and the fact that both can play a wide range of positions - we could still use 2 more guys to be consistent contributors off the bench, but they just may not exist this season and there’s no sense crying about it now… you dance with the gal you brought.[/quote]

I agree with you. Andrew is simply filling his role on the team. The offense is never going to go through him. If he gets points he’ll earn them primarily through offensive put backs. Offense isn’t our problem and we don’t have to go out looking for more points. We just need to continue to hold the other guys down by limiting their possessions through rebounding and good defensive play (one of which AJ does well, i.e. rebounding, and the other he does adequately).


#9
We've got 4 seniors on scholarship, 3 are giving their all. [b]It's not that AJ doesn't have the talent, we all saw what he could do during the NIT run.[/b] I'm just really disappointed that the light hasn't turned on for the kid yet. We can really use him right now with Sasa and Graham both out.

I disagree. I don’t think this is a matter of AJ just not getting it. I truly think he just isn’t as good as some would make out. People want to point to a handful of games during the NIT to describe his talent level. What about the other 3+ years of games?

First of all, good thread Duff. I’m with you, and with hewey. Offense is never going to go through him Lar, you’re correct, but some of us have been complaining about his poor positioning, and I think Duff’s analysis nails it. For someone like you who looks at stats, look at the breakdown of his possessions. He’s almost never in position to take a high percentage shot. He often half faces the ball and basket, as he’s much more comfortable shooting facing the basket, as most players are today. Problem is, he’s not good at it. Ball would go through him time and time again if he’d post up like Jamelle did. Talor always threw Jamelle that skip pass. AJ is often in no man’s land, not back to the basket, and if he does do that, it’s too far away as his cover pushes him away. I’ve been harping on this for three years. Teams will zone us to death. To beat a zone, you have to get the ball inside. If you’re not posting up, how do you do that? Dribble? Yeah, that’ll work great.

I’m afraid to look at how Allen on VTech is doing this year. I think in last year’s game, he had 14-17 rebounds. Williams(or Williamson) on Maryland is averaging 17ppg and 11.9 rebounds. I don’t know what the line is, and I would never wager vs. PSU, but these games are big risks. Ole Miss beat us on the boards. I expect the same in these two. Hope I’m wrong. Lar, if the centers on those two teams outscore our center by double digits and double his rebounds, don’t blame the shooting for the losses. IMO, Ed has some major decisions to make prior to this Wed game. If he just goes in the same way, same starters, same plan, after two disastrous games by the center(1 basket in two games, a gimme fed by Battle), making the tourney is seriously at risk, and would suggest Ed doesn’t even know what the team’s weaknesses are. Yes, we can beat the cream puffs. Big deal.


#10

Passing and receiving the ball in the paint is a “two way street.” How can someone put blame only on the center??
Again, for the 4th straight year I am surprised/angered by the Andrew “hate fest.” All the while many fans have “do no wrong love fests” with other PSU players.
AND…where are the board monitoring controlling Apologists?? Isn’t it their divine right to step in when ever a poster criticizes a player or coach?? Why is it OK to bash Andrew for 4 years!!..BUT a big “NO NO” to list a HCs win-loss record??


#11

and I thought I was going to read how Andrew had a game of poetic beauty


#12
[quote="jjepsu92, post:2, topic:1563"]We've got 4 seniors on scholarship, 3 are giving their all. [b]It's not that AJ doesn't have the talent, we all saw what he could do during the NIT run.[/b] I'm just really disappointed that the light hasn't turned on for the kid yet. We can really use him right now with Sasa and Graham both out.[/quote]

I disagree. I don’t think this is a matter of AJ just not getting it. I truly think he just isn’t as good as some would make out. People want to point to a handful of games during the NIT to describe his talent level. What about the other 3+ years of games?


The NIT wasn’t against tomato cans, there were some pretty good teams there. I just think that AJ has a case of what Jeff had. AJ thinks too much instead of just letting the game come to him.

He’s a great kid. Just wish he’d just let the game come to him. I really don’t care if he scores just grab rebounds. The last few games he hasn’t been doing that either.

During that NIT run he had Mel taking all the pressure off of him. Once Mel was gone things went back to normal. Having no bigs on the bench and getting nothing from the 5 spot is absolutely going to crush this team this season.

#13

The offensive sets that PSU runs take AJ away from the basket. I don’t think that he floats out to the foul line by himself. He is supposed to go there according to the offense.

If I have any criticism of AJ it is I would like to see him be tougher inside. He is way too willing to flop on a charge for a big man, but I am willing to admit that my opinion is a matter of taste. I want my posts to own the lane.


#14

[quote=“jjepsu92, post:2, topic:1563”]The guy in the 5 hole needs to get himself more involved.

We’ve got 4 seniors on scholarship, 3 are giving their all. It’s not that AJ doesn’t have the talent, we all saw what he could do during the NIT run. I’m just really disappointed that the light hasn’t turned on for the kid yet. We can really use him right now with Sasa and Graham both out.

Right now I think we should either start Billy or Kirkpatrick and bring Jones off the bench.[/quote]

You want us to go back to Jan Jagla?? And how is bringing AJ off the bench going to increase is touches or get him more involved?


#15

[quote=“tundra, post:10, topic:1563”]Passing and receiving the ball in the paint is a “two way street.” How can someone put blame only on the center??
Again, for the 4th straight year I am surprised/angered by the Andrew “hate fest.” All the while many fans have “do no wrong love fests” with other PSU players.
AND…where are the board monitoring controlling Apologists?? Isn’t it their divine right to step in when ever a poster criticizes a player or coach?? Why is it OK to bash Andrew for 4 years!!..BUT a big “NO NO” to list a HCs win-loss record?? [/quote]

Good point on the coaching. But IMO, something needs to be done. He is averaging 6 rbs, which is better than I thought, but he’s just not in the offense, and IMO, his positioning is just not good. Yes, some is the offense, but when he posts up, he doesn’t seal off his man well, and he’s often too far from the hoop. When he gets the ball, he pivots away, not in. No drop step? No up and under? And those 10’ jumpers. djones ran a piece about Gyasi Cline-Heard, how improved his senior year after going to Pete Newell’s Big Man Camp, and compared his improvement to Jeff Brooks this year. Maybe one of our coaches need to go to a camp like that. Jamelle Cornley posted up, so it’s not our offense. It’s guys willing to do it. Jordan Williams had 13 rebounds and 15 points vs. Illinois, in 80-76 loss. Can’t wait to see what his numbers are v. PSU. My fingers are crossed.


#16

foul him!!!


#17
[quote="jjepsu92, post:2, topic:1563"]We've got 4 seniors on scholarship, 3 are giving their all. [b]It's not that AJ doesn't have the talent, we all saw what he could do during the NIT run.[/b] I'm just really disappointed that the light hasn't turned on for the kid yet. We can really use him right now with Sasa and Graham both out.[/quote]

I disagree. I don’t think this is a matter of AJ just not getting it. I truly think he just isn’t as good as some would make out. People want to point to a handful of games during the NIT to describe his talent level. What about the other 3+ years of games?


The NIT wasn’t against tomato cans, there were some pretty good teams there. I just think that AJ has a case of what Jeff had. AJ thinks too much instead of just letting the game come to him.

He’s a great kid. Just wish he’d just let the game come to him. I really don’t care if he scores just grab rebounds. The last few games he hasn’t been doing that either.

During that NIT run he had Mel taking all the pressure off of him. Once Mel was gone things went back to normal. Having no bigs on the bench and getting nothing from the 5 spot is absolutely going to crush this team this season.

I was specifically talking about the first couple of games when Mel’s arm was dangling from the socket. AJ played like a beast. The kid has it in him. I am not asking for a double double every night, but it would be nice to see him get 9 ppg and 7 rpg.

Figure if he gets 4 rpg that are grab and shoots and he converts 50% (2 shots per game) that 4 ppg. If he gets 2 fouls called on the defense that is another 4 ft attempts. He is one of the better FT shooters on the team, but let’s just say he only converts 50%, that’s 2 more points. So that is 6 ppg and we haven’t even ran any set plays for him (i.e. the pick and roll dunk from Furman).

I like the kid I really do. I get excited when I see him make a putback or a dunk. I just wish the moments of excitement were not spaced 3 or 4 games apart. Like I said I’ve seen him play the way I think he can play and I am sure the coaches have told him that he could play that way, I think that Andrew just doesn’t have the confidence in his game. Jeff had the epiphany, why can’t Andrew.


#18
[quote="jjepsu92, post:2, topic:1563"]We've got 4 seniors on scholarship, 3 are giving their all. [b]It's not that AJ doesn't have the talent, we all saw what he could do during the NIT run.[/b] I'm just really disappointed that the light hasn't turned on for the kid yet. We can really use him right now with Sasa and Graham both out.[/quote]

I disagree. I don’t think this is a matter of AJ just not getting it. I truly think he just isn’t as good as some would make out. People want to point to a handful of games during the NIT to describe his talent level. What about the other 3+ years of games?


The NIT wasn’t against tomato cans, there were some pretty good teams there. I just think that AJ has a case of what Jeff had. AJ thinks too much instead of just letting the game come to him.

He’s a great kid. Just wish he’d just let the game come to him. I really don’t care if he scores just grab rebounds. The last few games he hasn’t been doing that either.

During that NIT run he had Mel taking all the pressure off of him. Once Mel was gone things went back to normal. Having no bigs on the bench and getting nothing from the 5 spot is absolutely going to crush this team this season.

I was specifically talking about the first couple of games when Mel’s arm was dangling from the socket. AJ played like a beast. The kid has it in him. I am not asking for a double double every night, but it would be nice to see him get 9 ppg and 7 rpg.

Figure if he gets 4 rpg that are grab and shoots and he converts 50% (2 shots per game) that 4 ppg. If he gets 2 fouls called on the defense that is another 4 ft attempts. He is one of the better FT shooters on the team, but let’s just say he only converts 50%, that’s 2 more points. So that is 6 ppg and we haven’t even ran any set plays for him (i.e. the pick and roll dunk from Furman).

I like the kid I really do. I get excited when I see him make a putback or a dunk. I just wish the moments of excitement were not spaced 3 or 4 games apart. Like I said I’ve seen him play the way I think he can play and I am sure the coaches have told him that he could play that way, I think that Andrew just doesn’t have the confidence in his game. Jeff had the epiphany, why can’t Andrew.

I think Jeff has always had the basketball skill just wasn’t all together upstairs or physically. Andrew came in with min basketball experience and had to learn the game and how to play which it looks like he’s still doing .

#19
[quote="jjepsu92, post:2, topic:1563"]We've got 4 seniors on scholarship, 3 are giving their all. [b]It's not that AJ doesn't have the talent, we all saw what he could do during the NIT run.[/b] I'm just really disappointed that the light hasn't turned on for the kid yet. We can really use him right now with Sasa and Graham both out.[/quote]

I disagree. I don’t think this is a matter of AJ just not getting it. I truly think he just isn’t as good as some would make out. People want to point to a handful of games during the NIT to describe his talent level. What about the other 3+ years of games?


The NIT wasn’t against tomato cans, there were some pretty good teams there. I just think that AJ has a case of what Jeff had. AJ thinks too much instead of just letting the game come to him.

He’s a great kid. Just wish he’d just let the game come to him. I really don’t care if he scores just grab rebounds. The last few games he hasn’t been doing that either.

During that NIT run he had Mel taking all the pressure off of him. Once Mel was gone things went back to normal. Having no bigs on the bench and getting nothing from the 5 spot is absolutely going to crush this team this season.

I was specifically talking about the first couple of games when Mel’s arm was dangling from the socket. AJ played like a beast. The kid has it in him. I am not asking for a double double every night, but it would be nice to see him get 9 ppg and 7 rpg.

Figure if he gets 4 rpg that are grab and shoots and he converts 50% (2 shots per game) that 4 ppg. If he gets 2 fouls called on the defense that is another 4 ft attempts. He is one of the better FT shooters on the team, but let’s just say he only converts 50%, that’s 2 more points. So that is 6 ppg and we haven’t even ran any set plays for him (i.e. the pick and roll dunk from Furman).

I like the kid I really do. I get excited when I see him make a putback or a dunk. I just wish the moments of excitement were not spaced 3 or 4 games apart. Like I said I’ve seen him play the way I think he can play and I am sure the coaches have told him that he could play that way, I think that Andrew just doesn’t have the confidence in his game. Jeff had the epiphany, why can’t Andrew.

This is one of those opportunities where I like to use statistics to bring a dose of reality into the equation. You make an observation “Figure if he gets 4 rpg that are grab and shoots and he converts 50% (2 shots per game) that 4 ppg”, that, in and of itself, seems to be a simple request. Four offensive rebounds a game certainly seems reasonable. That shouldn’t be a stretch for Jones. Surely, he can man up and do that.

Guess what? It ain’t so easy. The closest that anyone in the B10 has come to four offensive rebounds per game in the last five years was Greg Oden in 2008 when he averaged 3.53 per game. Jones is not, and never will be, a Greg Oden, so let’s not ask him to put up Greg Oden type numbers.

Seven total rebounds a game also seems like a reasonable request - and on the face of it, it’s certainly not an impossible number to reach like your four offensive boards is. However, if the TEAM rebounds like it did last year when it was the number one defensive rebounding team in the country, I certainly am not going to point a finger at any individual and say he’s not carrying his share of the load. We kllled Furman on the boards (both ends) yesterday and it seems a little unfair to call out Jones for not making a bigger contribution. To me, it reeks of nitpicking.

Rebounding, Ole Miss game notwithstanding, has never been our problem. Overall defense has been, and that, at least through the early part of the non-conference schedule, seems to be something that we’re addressing.


#20

Lar, our defense and rebounding has looked good in our 5 wins (against suspect opponents at home). Our defense and rebounding did not look good in our one loss (against a decent team on the road). We have a lot more games on the horizon against good teams. I think this is what has people concerned.